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Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin (Read 6310 times)
lee
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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #30 - Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:23pm  
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 9:57pm:
No, they do not - the owners own the company - you know .... the big shareholders?  Ask them sometime... go tell Gina she doesn't own the joint... the little people are shareholders, not owners, and they are buying shares for an investment and to earn income.



All owners are shareholders.

Gina may have say 50 million shares, others 2000 shares. They all own the company. At the AGM resolutions are passed on the back of the the number of votes. The number of votes depends on the shareholding. The dividends are paid on the back of the shareholding.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #31 - Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:32pm  
lee wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:23pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 9:57pm:
No, they do not - the owners own the company - you know .... the big shareholders?  Ask them sometime... go tell Gina she doesn't own the joint... the little people are shareholders, not owners, and they are buying shares for an investment and to earn income.



All owners are shareholders.

Gina may have say 50 million shares, others 2000 shares. They all own the company. At the AGM resolutions are passed on the back of the the number of votes. The number of votes depends on the shareholding. The dividends are paid on the back of the shareholding.


Yes - but you need to be a majority shareholder before you can say you own the company... the rest are just useful cash donors...

The fact that votes are carried on the back of shareholding shows that.... takes a hell of a lot of small shareholders working together to make a difference... and even then with Gina etc, they can't ever get a majority vote...

The silly idea, based on this furphy of shareholders owning the company, that somehow shareholders shouldn't pay income tax on income earned, since the company has paid company tax, is a nonsense - companies are liable for company tax and fees etc, individuals are liable for income tax.

Furthermore companies don;t pay income tax.. if they did their tax bill would be massively higher, and their deductions severely limited.

Be content with what you've got - don't go stirring the sleeping dragon... you won't lose under Shorten's reversion unless you are already cheating.

You must know, by now, my simple view that DI is the same as tax withheld for a PAYE earner... and some can be refunded depending on income.

The real problem of course, is that too many hide income in too many ways... ways that the PAYE earner cannot. As I said -n this is a kind of Robodebt approach - with ShortenCo seeking to take first and then force any complainants to come forward with their tax details in full....

I wonder how many will just not bother???

Interesting times.. very interesting.

Thank you for your courteous discussion as opposed to dick-face down there...... start on me, will he.... he'd better smile like it's a joke when he calls me a dope when he's raving his limited theory on the subject...  Angry
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« Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:39pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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juliar
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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #32 - Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:40pm  
The Extremist Greeny controlled Labor will tax the backsides off of every Australian to pay for their ridiculous Socialist destruction of Australia.

Why doesn't Labor just borrow endlessly like they did last time and leave a gigantic debt ?

There is a tremendous backlash against the Extremist Greeny controlled Labor by retirees and pensioners and small business.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #33 - Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:43pm  
lee wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:20pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:17pm:
Yup - and many such are in desperate need of overhaul to reflect reality, especially those pertaining to business and company and accounting - the fact remains that anyone with a genuine income lower than the tax-free threshold will continue to get a return, and some above get a part return... but they will have to put their whole income structure up for analysis first...


That's what they do. Interest, dividends, other income. Huh


When you can have a big income and apparently toss off any tax on concessions - something is very wrong with the way this is done... told you - been arguing with a guy with the family company and salary and share receipts who pays not ax, and nor does his 'family company'.....

Someone has to pay tax somewhere in all that money changing hands.. and that kind of rorting is causing problems with the budget and also is undermining real business people who are honest in their dealings.  Too many loop-holes and bolt holes for the unscrupulous... I can foresee the day when a responsible government will just shut the whole thing down, and many innocents will suffer along with the scum.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #34 - Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:44pm  
juliar wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:40pm:
The Extremist Greeny controlled Labor will tax the backsides off of every Australian to pay for their ridiculous Socialist destruction of Australia.

Why doesn't Labor just borrow endlessly like they did last time and leave a gigantic debt ?

There is a tremendous backlash against the Extremist Greeny controlled Labor by retirees and pensioners and small business.


Thanks for the laugh... not worth commenting on...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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crocodile
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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #35 - Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:46pm  
Dnarever wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 9:20pm:
crocodile wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 9:19pm:
John Smith wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 8:20pm:
lee wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 7:36pm:
They have paid dividend imputation tax.



no, the COMPANY has paid it's taxes. The shareholders have paid nothing.

The shareholders own the company you colostomy bag.


They still payed no tax on their income


Horseshit. The company profit is their income.
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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lee
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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #36 - Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:50pm  
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:32pm:
The silly idea, based on this furphy of shareholders owning the company, that somehow shareholders shouldn't pay income tax on income earned, since the company has paid company tax, is a nonsense - companies are liable for company tax and fees etc, individuals are liable for income tax.


Perhaps you should tell Bill the shareholders haven't paid tax on the
Dividend income.  He will be pleased another tax on the horizon. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:32pm:
Be content with what you've got - don't go stirring the sleeping dragon... you won't lose under Shorten's reversion unless you are already cheating.



I own no shares petal.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:32pm:
You must know, by now, my simple view that DI is the same as tax withheld for a PAYE earner... and some can be refunded depending on income.



yahoo. And if your deductions fall below the tax free threshold you get ALL your PAYE back. Wink
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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #37 - Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:52pm  
crocodile wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:46pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 9:20pm:
crocodile wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 9:19pm:
John Smith wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 8:20pm:
lee wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 7:36pm:
They have paid dividend imputation tax.



no, the COMPANY has paid it's taxes. The shareholders have paid nothing.

The shareholders own the company you colostomy bag.


They still payed no tax on their income


Horseshit. The company profit is their income.



The company profit is the company income - the shareholder's income is their dividend payment - two totally separate things.  Try reading - companies don't pay income tax - they pay company taxes and fees etc - shareholders pay income tax on thee income they derive from investing in the company.

Dope.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #38 - Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:54pm  
lee wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:50pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:32pm:
The silly idea, based on this furphy of shareholders owning the company, that somehow shareholders shouldn't pay income tax on income earned, since the company has paid company tax, is a nonsense - companies are liable for company tax and fees etc, individuals are liable for income tax.


Perhaps you should tell Bill the shareholders haven't paid tax on the
Dividend income.  He will be pleased another tax on the horizon. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:32pm:
Be content with what you've got - don't go stirring the sleeping dragon... you won't lose under Shorten's reversion unless you are already cheating.



I own no shares petal.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:32pm:
You must know, by now, my simple view that DI is the same as tax withheld for a PAYE earner... and some can be refunded depending on income.



yahoo. And if your deductions fall below the tax free threshold you get ALL your PAYE back. Wink



It's simply tax withheld and comprises part of their gross income as per the ATO, and is included in  calculation of their tax liability.  Simple...

Couldn't care less - then why are you arguing the point?  You own no shares, petal, so what's your beef?

You may or may not, provided your income structure is legit and has no black holes of rorting... I've always said that genuine low income recipients will receive a part of full return on DI - and the ATO says so too.  Shortenco is simply making you run at the guns if you are a DI recipient and forcing you to lay out your reasons for getting a return... since at most one in ten is put on a list and remains there for three years for scrutiny, it is likely that many are getting away with a lot right now, but if they appeal, all will be revealed...

Governments love to play stupid, but they are cunning...... you may argue the merits of either of those as you wish.... I simply don't trust them at all and every clod in government has a yen for a silver lining from somewhere.... they will have planned this out over long sessions in a smoke-filled room ..... they know the next moves in this game of chess already.... and are ready for it ....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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crocodile
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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #39 - Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:56pm  
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 9:57pm:
crocodile wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 9:19pm:
John Smith wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 8:20pm:
lee wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 7:36pm:
They have paid dividend imputation tax.



no, the COMPANY has paid it's taxes. The shareholders have paid nothing.

The shareholders own the company you colostomy bag.


No, they do not - the owners own the company - you know .... the big shareholders?  Ask them sometime... go tell Gina she doesn't own the joint... the little people are shareholders, not owners, and they are buying shares for an investment and to earn income.

You know full well that companies and shareholders are totally separate operating entities - and each is liable for their own tax.. the company pays its taxes, the recipient of income from shareholding pays his/her taxes.

Abolish dividend imputation and no more arguments... company pays it taxes and the shareholder pays his/her without all this nonsense going around and around.



What a lot of fukking horseshit. Gina's is a private company. All shareholders own the company according to their weighted share amount. That's why they're called shares.

Companies and shareholders are only separate in your feeble brain. The shareholders are the owners. The company pays its taxes and since the shareholders own the company, the shareholder paid the taxes.

Waste of time explaining. You're too thick to understand it.
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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crocodile
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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #40 - Feb 27th, 2019 at 11:00pm  
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:52pm:
crocodile wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:46pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 9:20pm:
crocodile wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 9:19pm:
John Smith wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 8:20pm:
lee wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 7:36pm:
They have paid dividend imputation tax.



no, the COMPANY has paid it's taxes. The shareholders have paid nothing.

The shareholders own the company you colostomy bag.


They still payed no tax on their income


Horseshit. The company profit is their income.



The company profit is the company income - the shareholder's income is their dividend payment - two totally separate things.  Try reading - companies don't pay income tax - they pay company taxes and fees etc - shareholders pay income tax on thee income they derive from investing in the company.

Dope.

It doesn't matter what you call it. The company earned money with shareholder capital. It doesn't matter, some people are just too stupid for typing. I give up. You can go and cry in your beer as much as you want and whinge a bit more.
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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lee
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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #41 - Feb 27th, 2019 at 11:03pm  
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:54pm:
You own no shares, petal, so what's your beef?



Because I get sick of people making inane arguments who have no idea.
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:54pm:
You may or may not, provided your income structure is legit and has no black holes of rorting... I've always said that genuine low income recipients will receive a part of full return on DI - and the ATO says so too. 


yes that;s current law as I said. When and if Bill changes the law they will say something that follows the updated law. Roll Eyes

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:54pm:
Shortenco is simply making you run at the guns if you are a DI recipient and forcing you to lay out your reasons for getting a return..


Rubbish. If I were to be earning $60K it wouldn't make any difference.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:54pm:
Governments love to play stupid, but they are cunning.


And Labor are in government? Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #42 - Feb 27th, 2019 at 11:05pm  
crocodile wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:56pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 9:57pm:
crocodile wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 9:19pm:
John Smith wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 8:20pm:
lee wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 7:36pm:
They have paid dividend imputation tax.



no, the COMPANY has paid it's taxes. The shareholders have paid nothing.

The shareholders own the company you colostomy bag.


No, they do not - the owners own the company - you know .... the big shareholders?  Ask them sometime... go tell Gina she doesn't own the joint... the little people are shareholders, not owners, and they are buying shares for an investment and to earn income.

You know full well that companies and shareholders are totally separate operating entities - and each is liable for their own tax.. the company pays its taxes, the recipient of income from shareholding pays his/her taxes.

Abolish dividend imputation and no more arguments... company pays it taxes and the shareholder pays his/her without all this nonsense going around and around.



What a lot of fukking horseshit. Gina's is a private company. All shareholders own the company according to their weighted share amount. That's why they're called shares.

Companies and shareholders are only separate in your feeble brain. The shareholders are the owners. The company pays its taxes and since the shareholders own the company, the shareholder paid the taxes.

Waste of time explaining. You're too thick to understand it.


Your language and intelligence are failing you again, dick-head.

Nobody cares how a company is structured - it is the reality of shareholding that counts... and the little fish have no ownership in the decisions or policies... an even if you allow that the shareholders are somehow the owners, they are still liable for personal income tax and the company liable for company taxes as two separate operating legal entities ... perhaps companies should pay income tax like everyone else does....that'd be a hoot...

You really know nothing do you?  Just spout some spoon-fed line over and over and hope to somehow get a change so that the poor widdle shareholder doesn't have to pay income tax on income... Jesus.... if you had one iota of accounting or economic sense you'd know the truth of all I say, so obviously you don't have any training at all but are repeating some half-baked nonsense someone fed to you.

Poor little fellow... and keep a civil tongue in your head, moron.. I won't warn you again.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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lee
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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #43 - Feb 27th, 2019 at 11:15pm  
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 11:05pm:
an even if you allow that the shareholders are somehow the owners, they are still liable for personal income tax and the company liable for company taxes as two separate operating legal entities


yes and the owners (shareholders) pay their tax on their profits from the company as per their shareholding. The company is liable for tax that's the tax paid on profits on behalf of the owners (shareholders).

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 11:05pm:
perhaps companies should pay income tax like everyone else does..


They do. Haven't you learnt anything?

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 11:05pm:
if you had one iota of accounting or economic sense you'd know the truth of all I say, so obviously you don't have any training at all but are repeating some half-baked nonsense someone fed to you.


it is obvious you have no accounting or economic sense.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 11:05pm:
I won't warn you again.



Threats? Is that against site rules? Grin Grin Grin Grin
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crocodile
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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #44 - Feb 27th, 2019 at 11:33pm  
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 11:05pm:
crocodile wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 10:56pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 9:57pm:
crocodile wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 9:19pm:
John Smith wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 8:20pm:
lee wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 7:36pm:
They have paid dividend imputation tax.



no, the COMPANY has paid it's taxes. The shareholders have paid nothing.

The shareholders own the company you colostomy bag.


No, they do not - the owners own the company - you know .... the big shareholders?  Ask them sometime... go tell Gina she doesn't own the joint... the little people are shareholders, not owners, and they are buying shares for an investment and to earn income.

You know full well that companies and shareholders are totally separate operating entities - and each is liable for their own tax.. the company pays its taxes, the recipient of income from shareholding pays his/her taxes.

Abolish dividend imputation and no more arguments... company pays it taxes and the shareholder pays his/her without all this nonsense going around and around.



What a lot of fukking horseshit. Gina's is a private company. All shareholders own the company according to their weighted share amount. That's why they're called shares.

Companies and shareholders are only separate in your feeble brain. The shareholders are the owners. The company pays its taxes and since the shareholders own the company, the shareholder paid the taxes.

Waste of time explaining. You're too thick to understand it.


Your language and intelligence are failing you again, dick-head.

Nobody cares how a company is structured - it is the reality of shareholding that counts... and the little fish have no ownership in the decisions or policies... an even if you allow that the shareholders are somehow the owners, they are still liable for personal income tax and the company liable for company taxes as two separate operating legal entities ... perhaps companies should pay income tax like everyone else does....that'd be a hoot...

You really know nothing do you?  Just spout some spoon-fed line over and over and hope to somehow get a change so that the poor widdle shareholder doesn't have to pay income tax on income... Jesus.... if you had one iota of accounting or economic sense you'd know the truth of all I say, so obviously you don't have any training at all but are repeating some half-baked nonsense someone fed to you.

Poor little fellow... and keep a civil tongue in your head, moron.. I won't warn you again.


You can keep dreaming as much as you want. No point wasting my time on someone who has the mental capacity of a flea. You only think you know. That's OK because an ignorant ass doesn't really know enough to realise what they don't know. Kind of a blissful life in a way. Have a nice glass of warm milk before bed.
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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