Australian Politics Forum - Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin

Dnarever

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #90 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:17pm

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 7:35pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

lee wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 6:02pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:50pm:

so if they're not distributed, how can they be shareholders income?

That share of profits that are distributed are income. However if you want Bill to tell people that those distributions are NOT income, I am sure the shareholders will be very pleased. Wink

and the share of profits that is used to pay wages is called 'wages' and so on and so on ..... so?
Company profits are NOT income.

The dividends to the shareholders (people) is income to them.

The whole problem with this Shorten / Bowen tax grab to deny low income recipients of franked dividends their tax return refund if they come in under the tax-free threshold is that it hits the low income retirees the hardest.

Some will lose 30% of their annual income. Shocked

It is going to really hurt some retirees.

(Pensioners / part / pensioners) have since been exempted after the initial outcry, but those on low incomes not receiving any pension will be hurt by this.

That's why I am dead against it in its current form.

Some will lose 30% of their annual income. Shocked

For this to be true 100% of their income would need to come directly from fully franked shares. The likelihood of this would be close to zero in fact it may not even be possible.

Estimates have been saying that it could cost an investor up to $3,000 (more likely less than half of that before any mitigation) This figure is not close to 30% of a self funded retirees income and in fact anyone in this position would be getting a substantial part pension to top them up to a normal pension rate.

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Captain Nemo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9935 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin Reply #91 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:27pm Yep, that's right, there will be some whose only source of income is fully franked dividends. I for one, only invest in companies that pay fully franked dividends. It's "Blue Chip" companies for me every time.
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crocodile

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #92 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:35pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:10pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 7:36pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 7:16pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 6:41pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 6:36pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 27^th, 2019 at 10:46pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 27^th, 2019 at 9:20pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 27^th, 2019 at 9:19pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 27^th, 2019 at 8:20pm:

lee wrote on Feb 27^th, 2019 at 7:36pm:

They have paid dividend imputation tax.

no, the COMPANY has paid it's taxes. The shareholders have paid nothing.

The shareholders own the company you colostomy bag.

They still payed no tax on their income

Horseshit. The company profit is their income.

They will be in a poo load of trouble when they put the company profit number in their personal tax return ?

But for them to do that you would need to be right ? Your not.

That's why there is an imputed credit attached to it. They just get a share of the profit. That's why they're called shareholders.

I guess to you putting words together in this sequence has some meaning. So now the company profit isn't their profit and They still never pay any tax on it - not one cent.

You fukkin' brainless twat. They own the company. The company that they own withheld it for them. Income streams in this country don't get taxed twice.

once again, company's and shareholders are separate entities. Why do I have to keep repeating this for you?

You can repeat it forever. Still, you can't get it through your thick, stupid skull that

The shareholders own the company

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #93 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:44pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:35pm:

You can repeat it forever. Still, you can't get it through your thick, stupid skull that

The shareholders own the company

Who cares - they still owe taxes...... personal income taxes separate from company taxes....

Pay your taxes, you lazy bludgers..... or pick up a shovel...

We could always pursue the idea that companies pay personal income tax rates, same as their workers, and then argue about the 'owners' of the company....

What is that top rate now... ummm.. 48% or 45? Of gross ........

....and of course they could only cop the same deductions allowable as workers on PAYE...

Hmmm - this idea has merit..... Tongue

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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John Smith

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #94 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:51pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:35pm:

You can repeat it forever. Still, you can't get it through your thick, stupid skull that

The shareholders own the company

No one is disputing who owns the company

You've also in the past argued that we need to cut company tax.

Tell me, according to you, if shareholders pay the tax and not companies ... why bother lowering company tax? Cheesy

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« Last Edit: Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:58pm by John Smith »

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Captain Nemo

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #95 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:56pm

If I may make a comment about lowering company tax ....

We have been experiencing record employment and record participation rates with the lower company taxes brought in by the Libs.

Companies employ more people when their costs are lower.

In America, where the company tax rates were massively cut ... record jobs growth again.

It's just a simple fact: lower taxes equals higher employment rates. Cool

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The 2025 election could be a shocker.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74262 Gender:	Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin Reply #96 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:57pm Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:56pm: We have been experiencing record employment and record participation rates with the lower company taxes brought in by the Libs. and record underemployment
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crocodile

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #97 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 9:39pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:51pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:35pm:

You can repeat it forever. Still, you can't get it through your thick, stupid skull that

The shareholders own the company

No one is disputing who owns the company

You've also in the past argued that we need to cut company tax.

Tell me, according to you, if shareholders pay the tax and not companies ... why bother lowering company tax? Cheesy

Because retained earnings is what drives productivity. Improvements to the capital / labour ratio is good for workers. Taxing it is a tax on wages.

For fukk sake, buy a textbook.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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crocodile

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #98 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 9:42pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:44pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:35pm:

You can repeat it forever. Still, you can't get it through your thick, stupid skull that

The shareholders own the company

Who cares - they still owe taxes...... personal income taxes separate from company taxes....

Pay your taxes, you lazy bludgers..... or pick up a shovel...

We could always pursue the idea that companies pay personal income tax rates, same as their workers, and then argue about the 'owners' of the company....

What is that top rate now... ummm.. 48% or 45? Of gross ........

....and of course they could only cop the same deductions allowable as workers on PAYE...

Hmmm - this idea has merit..... Tongue

You fukkin' drongo. The shareholders have to make up the difference between their marginal rate and the corporate rate. They still pay their full obligation.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17330 Gender:	Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin Reply #99 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 9:52pm Dnarever wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:17pm: Estimates have been saying that it could cost an investor up to $3,000 (more likely less than half of that before any mitigation) Don't you just love averages. You can get them to mean anything you want.
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philperth2010

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #100 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:06pm

The scheme was introduced to prevent double taxation....The taxpayer should not be subsidising anyone's personal income above the social security safety net....This must be reigned in!!!

Quote:

Keating introduced dividend imputation in 1987 to prevent the double taxation of dividends, once as company profits and once as personal income, and the Howard government then enhanced the scheme by allowing individuals and super funds to claim cash refunds for any excess imputation credits not used to offset their tax liabilities.

In a speech in Sydney on Tuesday, Shorten will characterise the current arrangements as “unsustainable largesse for high-income earners”, which, if left unchecked, will cost the budget “$8bn every single year”.

Shorten will argue the Howard government’s extension of the scheme “entirely distorts the original design of the dividend imputation system” and has left Australia as the only country in the OECD with a fully refundable dividend imputation credit system.

Australians will continue to be able to use imputation credits to reduce their tax liabilities, “but not to claim cash refunds”.

The age of entitlement is over....Pay your taxes you bastards!!!

Angry

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/mar/13/labor-to-axe-cash-refunds...

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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lee

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #101 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:17pm

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:06pm:

Shorten will argue the Howard government’s extension of the scheme “entirely distorts the original design of the dividend imputation system” and has left Australia as the only country in the OECD with a fully refundable dividend imputation credit system.

The consensus argument. No one but us does it so it must be wrong. Grin

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Captain Nemo

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #102 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:20pm

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:06pm:

The scheme was introduced to prevent double taxation....The taxpayer should not be subsidising anyone's personal income above the social security safety net....This must be reigned in!!!

Quote:

Keating introduced dividend imputation in 1987 to prevent the double taxation of dividends, once as company profits and once as personal income, and the Howard government then enhanced the scheme by allowing individuals and super funds to claim cash refunds for any excess imputation credits not used to offset their tax liabilities.

In a speech in Sydney on Tuesday, Shorten will characterise the current arrangements as “unsustainable largesse for high-income earners”, which, if left unchecked, will cost the budget “$8bn every single year”.

Shorten will argue the Howard government’s extension of the scheme “entirely distorts the original design of the dividend imputation system” and has left Australia as the only country in the OECD with a fully refundable dividend imputation credit system.

Australians will continue to be able to use imputation credits to reduce their tax liabilities, “but not to claim cash refunds”.

The age of entitlement is over....Pay your taxes you bastards!!!

Angry

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/mar/13/labor-to-axe-cash-refunds...

That nails the whole problem ...

"Australians will continue to be able to use imputation credits to reduce their tax liabilities, “but not to claim cash refunds”

Discriminates against the low income self-funded retirees. Angry

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The 2025 election could be a shocker.

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philperth2010

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #103 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:24pm

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:20pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:06pm:

The scheme was introduced to prevent double taxation....The taxpayer should not be subsidising anyone's personal income above the social security safety net....This must be reigned in!!!

Quote:

Keating introduced dividend imputation in 1987 to prevent the double taxation of dividends, once as company profits and once as personal income, and the Howard government then enhanced the scheme by allowing individuals and super funds to claim cash refunds for any excess imputation credits not used to offset their tax liabilities.

In a speech in Sydney on Tuesday, Shorten will characterise the current arrangements as “unsustainable largesse for high-income earners”, which, if left unchecked, will cost the budget “$8bn every single year”.

Shorten will argue the Howard government’s extension of the scheme “entirely distorts the original design of the dividend imputation system” and has left Australia as the only country in the OECD with a fully refundable dividend imputation credit system.

Australians will continue to be able to use imputation credits to reduce their tax liabilities, “but not to claim cash refunds”.

The age of entitlement is over....Pay your taxes you bastards!!!

Angry

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/mar/13/labor-to-axe-cash-refunds...

That nails the whole problem ...

"Australians will continue to be able to use imputation credits to reduce their tax liabilities, “but not to claim cash refunds”

Discriminates against the low income self-funded retirees. Angry

Quote:
“$8bn every single year”

Yeah right!!!

Roll Eyes

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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lee

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #104 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:27pm

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:24pm:

In a speech in Sydney on Tuesday, Shorten will characterise the current arrangements as “unsustainable largesse for high-income earners”, which, if left unchecked, will cost the budget “$8bn every single year”.

That means the product he has to sell he has to "characterise" it. Grin

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:24pm:

Quote:
“$8bn every single year”

Yeah right!!!

Just make it all double taxation that will suit you. Grin

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