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They promise an egalitarian Utopia (Read 3436 times)
SadKangaroo
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Mianjin (Brisbane)
Re: They promise an egalitarian Utopia
Reply #30 - Feb 26th, 2020 at 8:37am
 
rhino wrote on Feb 26th, 2020 at 8:32am:
Mortdooley wrote on Feb 25th, 2020 at 11:54pm:
When you subsidize something you get more of it, just see the failures of utopia California.

https://www.theburningplatform.com/2020/02/22/on-leaving-the-golden-state/


Another feature of living where I live would have to be the homeless, the insane and the drug addicts that wander this particular neighborhood.  The authorities estimate that there are more than 1100 homeless in and around my part of town but unless you too live in such a neighborhood, it can be hard to imagine so I’ll do my best to explain.  Please humor me while I tell you what that looks like from ground zero.

As I wait for my morning coffee to brew, I can see the more industrious homeless pushing or pulling their junk carts from under the overpass where they spent the night.  During the day, these guys will scoop up anything of value that is not nailed down.  Others that I can see have their signs and will go panhandle where the tourists must exit the freeway.
Trumps economy. Great isnt it?


Trump has the crime and drug thing sorted, the wall will fix everything.  Too bad the Military have to subsidize it's construction.

Wait... subsidize...

Oh no, the wall is Socialism!!!>!>!>!>##$@>$!>$

...
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Yadda
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Re: They promise an egalitarian Utopia
Reply #31 - Feb 26th, 2020 at 11:15am
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 26th, 2020 at 8:28am:

Yadda, you keep talking about socialism.

This is how those you're getting your information from have decided is an effective way to attack Sanders.

Given that it's working on you, they're probably right.

But Sanders isn't advocating for socialism.

Medicare for all is not socialism.

A livable wage for all is not socialism.

Even closing loopholes so people and corporations pay the level of taxaition they're already expected to isn't socialism.

Do you even know what socialism is?

Sanders is a capitalist.

......That's not socialism.




Hey, sadkanga,


Sanders isn't advocating for socialism.

And, ISLAM is a peaceful religion.

GOT IT.






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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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SadKangaroo
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Re: They promise an egalitarian Utopia
Reply #32 - Feb 26th, 2020 at 11:29am
 
Yadda wrote on Feb 26th, 2020 at 11:15am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Feb 26th, 2020 at 8:28am:

Yadda, you keep talking about socialism.

This is how those you're getting your information from have decided is an effective way to attack Sanders.

Given that it's working on you, they're probably right.

But Sanders isn't advocating for socialism.

Medicare for all is not socialism.

A livable wage for all is not socialism.

Even closing loopholes so people and corporations pay the level of taxaition they're already expected to isn't socialism.

Do you even know what socialism is?

Sanders is a capitalist.

......That's not socialism.




Hey, sadkanga,


Sanders isn't advocating for socialism.

And, ISLAM is a peaceful religion.

GOT IT.








You're free to quote Sanders advocating for Socialism, or even not run away from answering the question, do you even know what Socialism is?
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Karnal
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Re: They promise an egalitarian Utopia
Reply #33 - Feb 26th, 2020 at 11:48am
 
Quote:
But Sanders isn't advocating for socialism.

Medicare for all is not socialism.  A livable wage for all is not socialism.  Even closing loopholes so people and corporations pay the level of taxaition they're already expected to isn't socialism.


Actually, I think you'll find those things are the very definition of socialism, Sad.

Conservative parties all over the world might support these policies, but there's nothing stopping conservatism from veering into socialism.

You can see this in the spectrum of views from the British monarchy's notion of noblesse oblige to Nazism/fascism's National Socialism. National Socialism was the right's response to communism.

Democratic or Fabian socialism is only slightly left of centre. It too was a response to communism after the Paris Commune and popular uprisings of the 1840s. Leaders like Bismarck saw it as the only way to stop their populations staging revolutions. The British Labour Party took it on, as did Marx in his later years. Fabian or democratic socialism saw the rise of the hospital, along with other previously utilitarian causes, like prison reform. Democratic socialism established aged and blind pensions, free health care and the rise of unions.

The US did not establish these things until FDR in the 1930s. Prior to that, labour unions were illegal in the US. These social programs were a response to the Great Depression. Like Bismarck in the 1890s, the US feared the rise of communism. Democratic socialism was a move to the centre. When Bernie references socialism, he's referring to the principles and unfinished reforms of FDR.

And do you know? Despite the right's willingness to embrace modest components of socialism (especially since Trump), Bernie has not got a hope in hell. Just think, the reforms of Bismarck and FDR are considered a utopian fantasy in the US.

Sadly, a do-nothing professional politician like Sleepy Joe is the Democrats' only hope to beat Trump, but what kind of hope is that?
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