Australian Politics Forum - Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages

Jasin

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Re: Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages
Reply #15 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 12:10pm

Australia has one of the highest Wage rates in the world.
I still can't see how things are so bad here on that level.
Beyond the cost of living being higher to 'cash in' on all that high wage earnings.

Going by all the Australian 'Lifestyle' programs on TV.
It's hard to see how "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous Australia" is struggling. Everyone is living the high life here while still crying poor downtrodden convict under British rule. Roll Eyes

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 136453 Gender:	Re: Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages Reply #16 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 12:15pm "Many Australian capital cities, including Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Hobart, have become more expensive over the past year compared to the rest of the world." Living costs in many Australian cities rising faster than rest of world
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Bam

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Re: Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages
Reply #17 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:06pm

Captain Nemo wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 11:05am:

Bam wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 10:13am:

Captain Nemo wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 7:46am:

Is the opposite of "trickle down economics" communism? Shocked

No. It is not. The opposite of "trickle down economics" is adequate regulation of businesses, high taxes on the rich, real full employment and a prosperous middle class. This was the prevailing economic climate of the 1950s and 1960s.

State control you mean?

Sounds like communism to me. Wink

Now you're resorting to the strawman fallacy.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam

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Re: Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages
Reply #18 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:13pm

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 12:03pm:

Bam wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 10:09am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 8:37am:

Bam wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 7:47am:

cods wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 7:28am:

what about US the people who do not get wages?

we get left behind further..

wages got up so does everything consumers buy and that includes...people not on wages.. Angry

I think its called trickle down..

Trickle down is a lie. You should know that by now.

It was just a throw away line invented by a comedian in the '40s.

That is quite blatant handwaving. It doesn't matter what you call it - horse and sparrow theory, supply side economics - the theory is the same. By any name, it is a lie.

Horseshit. Find me one decent economic textbook or peer reviewed paper that even pays the slightest attention to these comedic words. Just one will do.

Horseshit yourself. It's in the Oxford Dictionary: trickle down. Limiting it to the narrow scope you've chosen is irrelevant because the same concept can have different names. Furthermore, whining about the name does not refute the argument that the concept is a lie.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages
Reply #19 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:15pm

Captain Nemo wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 11:05am:

Bam wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 10:13am:

Captain Nemo wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 7:46am:

Is the opposite of "trickle down economics" communism? Shocked

No. It is not. The opposite of "trickle down economics" is adequate regulation of businesses, high taxes on the rich, real full employment and a prosperous middle class. This was the prevailing economic climate of the 1950s and 1960s.

State control you mean?

Sounds like communism to me. Wink

Lol

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Captain Nemo

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Re: Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages
Reply #20 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:35pm

Well, if not communism, then definitely socialism. Wink

The Labor Party's Constitution tells us so:

PART B – OBJECTIVES AND PRINCIPLES

Origins

3 The Australian Labor Party had its origins in:

(a) the aspirations of the Australian people for a decent, secure, dignified and
constructive way of life;

(b) the recognition by the trade union movement of the necessity for a political voice
to take forward the struggle of the working class against the excesses, injustices
and inequalities of capitalism; and

(c) the commitment by the Australian people to the creation of an independent, free
and enlightened Australia.

Objectives

4 The Australian Labor Party is a democratic socialist party and has the objective of the
democratic socialisation of industry, production, distribution and exchange,
to the
extent necessary to eliminate exploitation and other anti-social features in these fields.

5 To achieve the political and social values of equality, democracy, liberty and social cooperation
inherent in this objective, the Australian Labor Party stands for:

(a) redistribution of political and economic power
so that all members of society have
the opportunity to participate in the shaping and control of the institutions and
relationships which determine their lives;

(b) establishment and development of public enterprises, based upon federal, state
and other forms of social ownership, in appropriate sectors of the economy;

(c) democratic control and strategic social ownership of Australian natural resources
for the benefit of all Australians;

...

https://cdn.australianlabor.com.au/documents/ALP_National_Constitution.pdf

Cheesy

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The 2025 election could be a shocker.

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crocodile

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Re: Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages
Reply #21 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:38pm

Bam wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:13pm:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 12:03pm:

Bam wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 10:09am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 8:37am:

Bam wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 7:47am:

cods wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 7:28am:

what about US the people who do not get wages?

we get left behind further..

wages got up so does everything consumers buy and that includes...people not on wages.. Angry

I think its called trickle down..

Trickle down is a lie. You should know that by now.

It was just a throw away line invented by a comedian in the '40s.

That is quite blatant handwaving. It doesn't matter what you call it - horse and sparrow theory, supply side economics - the theory is the same. By any name, it is a lie.

Horseshit. Find me one decent economic textbook or peer reviewed paper that even pays the slightest attention to these comedic words. Just one will do.

Horseshit yourself. It's in the Oxford Dictionary: trickle down. Limiting it to the narrow scope you've chosen is irrelevant because the same concept can have different names. Furthermore, whining about the name does not refute the argument that the concept is a lie.

All a dictionary does is spell out the meaning of words. The technical veracity of the word is of no consequence to Mr Oxford. There is no such thing as trickle down, conceptually or otherwise. It is reserved for comedians and commentators that don't know what they're waffling about.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Bam

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Re: Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages
Reply #22 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:55pm

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:38pm:

Bam wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:13pm:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 12:03pm:

Bam wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 10:09am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 8:37am:

Bam wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 7:47am:

cods wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 7:28am:

what about US the people who do not get wages?

we get left behind further..

wages got up so does everything consumers buy and that includes...people not on wages.. Angry

I think its called trickle down..

Trickle down is a lie. You should know that by now.

It was just a throw away line invented by a comedian in the '40s.

That is quite blatant handwaving. It doesn't matter what you call it - horse and sparrow theory, supply side economics - the theory is the same. By any name, it is a lie.

Horseshit. Find me one decent economic textbook or peer reviewed paper that even pays the slightest attention to these comedic words. Just one will do.

Horseshit yourself. It's in the Oxford Dictionary: trickle down. Limiting it to the narrow scope you've chosen is irrelevant because the same concept can have different names. Furthermore, whining about the name does not refute the argument that the concept is a lie.

All a dictionary does is spell out the meaning of words. The technical veracity of the word is of no consequence to Mr Oxford. There is no such thing as trickle down, conceptually or otherwise. It is reserved for comedians and commentators that don't know what they're waffling about.

I'll say this again: Whining about the name does not refute the argument that the concept is a lie.

If you disagree with the assertion that it is a lie, name one country where giving money to the rich has eradicated poverty. Just one will do.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17330 Gender:	Re: Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages Reply #23 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 4:00pm Bam wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:55pm: If you disagree with the assertion that it is a lie, name one country where giving money to the rich has eradicated poverty. Or alternatively name one where giving all the money from the rich to the poor has alleviated poverty.
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Captain Nemo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9926 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages Reply #24 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 4:00pm All Capitalist economies are "trickle-down" economies. Australia has been a "trickle-down" economy since federation. It is self-evident that we have a "trickle-down" economy, else everyone would be on a minimum wage.
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John Smith

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Re: Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages
Reply #25 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 4:02pm

lee wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 4:00pm:

Bam wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:55pm:

If you disagree with the assertion that it is a lie, name one country where giving money to the rich has eradicated poverty.

Or alternatively name one where giving all the money from the rich to the poor has alleviated poverty. Grin

Norway

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17330 Gender:	Re: Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages Reply #26 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 4:08pm John Smith wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 4:02pm: Norway "A Look at Poverty in Norway" https://borgenproject.org/look-poverty-norway/ Plus many others. Do you ever check?
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John Smith

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Re: Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages
Reply #27 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 4:17pm

lee wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 4:08pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 4:02pm:

Norway

"A Look at Poverty in Norway"

https://borgenproject.org/look-poverty-norway/

Plus many others. Do you ever check?

Quote:

In Norway, it is defined as households with income below 50 per cent of the national median.

also from your article

Quote:

It is for this reason alone, that it is said that
absolute poverty is rare
.

And even then, the poor in the article are immigrant families that have recently arrived. You realise that they're talking about asylum seekers, right?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Captain Nemo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9926 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages Reply #28 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 4:18pm LOL
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lee

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Re: Shorten To Make Election A Referendum On Wages
Reply #29 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 4:34pm

John Smith wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 4:17pm:

Quote:
It is for this reason alone, that it is said that absolute poverty is rare.

You do underdtand the difference between rare and non-existent?

And that of course there are no rich people left in Norway?

lee wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 4:00pm:

Or alternatively name one where giving all the money from the rich to the poor has alleviated poverty.

remember what I said about others?

"1) The EU marks the poverty line where individuals make 60 percent of the national median earnings – for Norway, that would be about $17,000 a year. Using the EU definition, about 10 percent of Norwegians were considered under the relative poverty line in 2006, two years before the 2008 recession hit. That percentage decreased over time, until recently."

https://www.borgenmagazine.com/facts-about-poverty-in-norway/

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