Karnal wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 1:16pm:

Er... they jailed him for 2 years for blasphemy.


In a tense trial that was widely seen as a test of religious tolerance in the world's largest Muslim-majority nation, Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, also known as Ahok, was "found to have legitimately and convincingly conducted a criminal act of blasphemy, and because of that we have imposed two years of imprisonment", head judge Dwiarso Budi Santiarto told the court.

Ahok was charged with blasphemy after he said clerics had used a Koranic verse to mislead voters by telling them that Muslims were not allowed to vote for a Christian.

He has denied wrongdoing, and said he was not criticising the Koran, but rather the clerics' interpretation of the verse.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 9:22am:


The Muslims were unhappy about it. So they put him in jail for saying nice things about Islam.

That's as good as it gets apparently.

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 8:21pm:


Except the other mayor, who was elected on a church building platform, apparently.

Frank wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 2:48pm:


Indeed he was. I haven't read the law, but if it's blasphemy to scoff at the self-proclaimed piety of a religious politician, anything could be blasphemy. I was waiting for the not-guilty verdict. I was shocked. Ahok said nothing bad about religion or the Quran, it was ridiculous - a political show-trial.

Not only that, but prosecutors dropped the blasphemy charge and recommended a sentence of probation. Instead, the judge threw the book at Ahok.

This was politics, not religion. Indonesians have come out to protest against the blasphemy laws - there's huge grassroots support to get rid of these laws. To date, they've only been used on political opponents. Indeed, Sukarno introduced them to do so.

If FD read a bit or talked to Indonesians about their views, he would discover an overwhelming majority belief to keep religion distinct from politics - unlike, say, the Gulf states or Pakistan. Not only was this conviction ridiculous, the majority of Indonesians don't want the law applied in this way.

FD is right, but not in the way he thinks. Convictions like this certainly have the effect of taking away Indonesian liberties - not the liberty to blaspheme, but the liberty to speak out against religious politicians.

The Old Monotheisms are dying as a lie.
The New Worlds are the Truth and the future.
Tell a Moslem that the Aboriginals are the Truth and if the Moslem dissagrees, then alert your local aboriginal mob to come and 'educate' them. 

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:06am:


Nonsense.

I simply asked for evidence to back up your unsubstantiated claims. So far you have been surprisingly candid about the fact that your sweeping claims about Indonesian society are not based on any actual evidence - only a logical leap that this gaoling surely must lead to wholesale, across the board self-censorship - thus making Indonesia an "Islamofascist oppressive shithole".

It really is amazing the elaborate (mis)characterisation you can paint of someone - all because they dare ask for substantiation of a baseless claim.

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 10:22am:


Don't twist it into something different FD.

That the gaoling of one person on a particular trumped up charge for obvious political purposes, necessarily means that Indonesia is a self-censoring "Islamofascist oppressive shithole".

Don't pretend this is now about "gaoling people" (en masse) - you only ever referred to a single case as the basis for your entire argument.

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 10:22am:


Lets see, so far we've had you saying:

- gandalf defends gaoling of Ahok - Islamofascist apologiser, turd polisher etc etc etc
- gandalf "implied" and "likes to reassure people" that gaoling for blasphemy doesn't lead to self censorship - all because I dare ask for evidence for a sweeping claim.

How confident are you of this "recollection" that its all been gandalf lying about stuff? 

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:27pm:


So unfair.