Australian Politics Forum - Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?

freediver

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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #150 - Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #151 - Apr 18^th, 2019 at 2:45pm

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

This is the problem with basing your entire argument on a single case FD. When your only argument literally comes down to "Indonesia is a shithole of oppression - Ahok is a good (the only) example", then you must also accept the logic "Australia is a shithole of oppression - Frederik Toben is a good example".

Of course you could try actually developing an argument that resembles something coherent and plausible - but we know where that leads to - pages and pages of deflection in the form of ad-hom attacks and gross misrepresentions of other people's arguments. Sadly.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Frank

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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #152 - Apr 18^th, 2019 at 6:33pm

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

When you put a Muslim on the spot about Islam he will start talking about Jews and Israel.

It's a Pavlovian reflex.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #153 - Apr 18^th, 2019 at 7:08pm

Frank wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 6:33pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

When you put a Muslim on the spot about Islam he will start talking about Jews and Israel.

It's a Pavlovian reflex.

Actually FD had quite a long whinge over the attack on poor Toben's freedom. Its why I brought it up.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #154 - Apr 18^th, 2019 at 7:13pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 7:08pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 6:33pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

When you put a Muslim on the spot about Islam he will start talking about Jews and Israel.

It's a Pavlovian reflex.

Actually FD had quite a long whinge over the attack on poor Toben's freedom. Its why I brought it up.

Well, that's just nasty. First you attack decent white people for their views, then you offend FD for complaining.

I must say, I'm not surprised.

Muslim == a follower of Islam.

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Frank

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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #155 - Apr 18^th, 2019 at 7:41pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 7:08pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 6:33pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

When you put a Muslim on the spot about Islam he will start talking about Jews and Israel.

It's a Pavlovian reflex.

Actually FD had quite a long whinge over the attack on poor Toben's freedom. Its why I brought it up.

Yeah, right.

At ever turn you demonstrate, despite yourself and Mohammed, that all Mohammedanism is a response to the 'bugger off' the Jews gave to Mohammed.

Resentment is the very essence of Islam. Mo wanted to be welcomed by the Jews but they told him to bugger off. And you are killing each other and everyone else because neither Mohammed nor the rest of you Mohammedans can ever digest that bit of 'up yours'. You have a revelation from Allah, no less, to justify your psychological inability to deal with the rejection by the Jews.

There would be NO ISLAM if there were no Jews. The Christians readily embrace their debt to the Jewish scriptures but you, semi-literate mutts cannot ever do that because you are the people of RESENTMENT. That's all there is to Islam: Resentment. It eat at you.

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freediver

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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #156 - Apr 19^th, 2019 at 9:20am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 2:45pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

This is the problem with basing your entire argument on a single case FD. When your only argument literally comes down to "Indonesia is a shithole of oppression - Ahok is a good (the only) example", then you must also accept the logic "Australia is a shithole of oppression - Frederik Toben is a good example".

Of course you could try actually developing an argument that resembles something coherent and plausible - but we know where that leads to - pages and pages of deflection in the form of ad-hom attacks and gross misrepresentions of other people's arguments. Sadly.

Indonesia routinely jails people for blasphemy Gandalf. It is, after all, a shithole of oppression.

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Karnal

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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #157 - Apr 19^th, 2019 at 10:01am

freediver wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 9:20am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 2:45pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

This is the problem with basing your entire argument on a single case FD. When your only argument literally comes down to "Indonesia is a shithole of oppression - Ahok is a good (the only) example", then you must also accept the logic "Australia is a shithole of oppression - Frederik Toben is a good example".

Of course you could try actually developing an argument that resembles something coherent and plausible - but we know where that leads to - pages and pages of deflection in the form of ad-hom attacks and gross misrepresentions of other people's arguments. Sadly.

Indonesia routinely jails people for blasphemy Gandalf. It is, after all, a shithole of oppression.

What do they do in your preferred tourist destination, FD?

KILL THEM?

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freediver

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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #158 - Apr 19^th, 2019 at 10:08am

Karnal wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 10:01am:

freediver wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 9:20am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 18^th, 2019 at 2:45pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2019 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

How can you have a healthy free market of ideas on the interpretation of Islam at the same time as jailing people for blasphemy?

Probably the same way as gaoling people for holocaust denial doesn't fundamentally make Australia (or most of the west for that matter) a "shithole of oppression".

What way is that Gandalf? Or were you just trying to change the subject rather than add anything substantive?

This is the problem with basing your entire argument on a single case FD. When your only argument literally comes down to "Indonesia is a shithole of oppression - Ahok is a good (the only) example", then you must also accept the logic "Australia is a shithole of oppression - Frederik Toben is a good example".

Of course you could try actually developing an argument that resembles something coherent and plausible - but we know where that leads to - pages and pages of deflection in the form of ad-hom attacks and gross misrepresentions of other people's arguments. Sadly.

Indonesia routinely jails people for blasphemy Gandalf. It is, after all, a shithole of oppression.

What do they do in your preferred tourist destination, FD?

KILL THEM?

I forgot to add... thanks to Islam.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ? Reply #159 - Apr 19^th, 2019 at 11:06am freediver wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 9:20am: Indonesia routinely jails people for blasphemy Gandalf. No they don't.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49399 At my desk.	Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ? Reply #160 - Apr 19^th, 2019 at 11:23am How frequently do you think they jail people for blasphemy?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #161 - Apr 19^th, 2019 at 11:55am

actually I looked it up FD when you put that claim out:

Quote:

It was only used in eight cases in its first four decades but convictions spiked to 125 during the decade when President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono was in power, from 2004 to 2014. Another 23 people have been sentenced since President Joko Widodo took office in 2014.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/10/25/human-cost-indonesias-blasphemy-law

23 people in 4 years, 125 in the previous decade...

whats that about 5-10 people per year?

In a country of over 260 million, that hardly qualifies as "routine" - does it?

Gaoling of Islamists for incitement and hate speech on the other hand...

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #162 - Apr 19^th, 2019 at 12:17pm

125 in a decade comes to more than one jailing a month Gandalf. In other words, Indonesia is a shithole of oppression, thanks to Islam. And you lied when you tried to pass it off as a healthy free marketplace of ideas on the interpretation of Islam.

Does this mean you will stop lying about my argument boiling down to a single conviction?

Have any "Islamists" ever been jailed for blasphemy? Or is there an acknowledgement in there that they actually have the correct version of Islam, but must keep quiet about it?

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Frank

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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #163 - Apr 19^th, 2019 at 6:24pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 11:55am:

actually I looked it up FD when you put that claim out:

Quote:

It was only used in eight cases in its first four decades but convictions spiked to 125 during the decade when President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono was in power, from 2004 to 2014. Another 23 people have been sentenced since President Joko Widodo took office in 2014.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/10/25/human-cost-indonesias-blasphemy-law

23 people in 4 years, 125 in the previous decade...

whats that about 5-10 people per year?

In a country of over 260 million, that hardly qualifies as "routine" - does it?

Gaoling of Islamists for incitement and hate speech on the other hand...

You Muslims who incite hatred and violence ARE murderous. The people you jail for 'blasphemy' are not.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #164 - Apr 24^th, 2019 at 11:21am

freediver wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 12:17pm:

Does this mean you will stop lying about my argument boiling down to a single conviction?

What other convictions have you mentioned FD? Nothing. You have kept up this debate for months now with reference to Ahok, and Ahok alone. Ergo, your "argument boils down to a single conviction". Not sure why you are so touchy about this, its a simple statement of fact. But by all means if you care to base your argument on something else - anything you like, then feel free. Then I would stop pointing out that it boils down to a single conviction. But I'm afraid simply regurgitating the inane throwaway lines "Islam was wot done it" and "of course there are other cases" doesn't really cut it - obviously.

freediver wrote on Apr 19^th, 2019 at 12:17pm:

Have any "Islamists" ever been jailed for blasphemy?

Islamists are gaoled - routinely - over what they say about religion. You previously claimed they can say whatever they like about religion, which is simply laughable. Two Islamists were convicted for hate speech over the Ahok case alone - one for disseminating a doctored video making Ahok's "blasphemy" seem worse than it really was, and another for saying supporters of the "blasphemer" Ahok should be attacked. Whether its called "blasphemy" or "hate speech" is pointless semantics - the point is, Islamists are routinely arrested and gaoled for expressing their version of Islam (which happens to also be incitement and hate speech).

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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