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  Australian Politics Forum › Member Run Boards › Islam › Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
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Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ? (Read 24053 times)
Frank
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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #60 - Mar 29th, 2019 at 9:24pm  
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2019 at 7:46pm:
Quote:
surveys asking how open muslims are to different opinions on Islam, or their view of blasphemy laws - or even any surveys done in the wake of Ahok's gaoling as to how influential it was in determining how they publicly discuss Islam


So the only evidence you would accept is evidence that does not exist?

Quote:
But you could also reference political representation in Indonesia as something resembling an indicative snapshot of society (and by extension their attitudes).


WTF would that prove?

That Islamic propaganda is eye wash.
Taqiyya. Tactical dissemblance.

Islam is prophetically dishonest. Something called Submission - NOT peace- will never be honest and truthful.
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Yadda
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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #61 - Mar 29th, 2019 at 9:49pm  
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2019 at 9:24pm:

Islam is prophetically dishonest.




ISLAM is problematically, and fundamentally, dishonest.


fundamental = = of or serving as a foundation or core; of central importance.


" The Prophet said, "War is deceit." "

hadith/bukhari/ #004.052.269


And the Allah of ISLAM, has declared a never-ending war, upon all of disbelieving mankind.




.




EXAMPLE, DECEIT;

IMAGE...
...

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami



Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior


January 18, 2012

Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong

"...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance.

When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."
Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-isla...



.




EXAMPLE, DECEIT;

Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims

London, Sept.8 [2007]

A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.

Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.

A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain.
Polite and softly spoken....

He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece




.





EXAMPLE, DECEIT;

Quote:

A Study in Muslim Doctrine

"...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden,

insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."


http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine




.




EXAMPLE, DECEIT;

Google,
we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"





.




IMAGE.....
...

Ali Kadri - Islamic Council of Queensland vice-president,
features in The Mosque Next Door on SBS.




Quote:

"There's no underlying religious text or reasons why [moslems] go out and kill people......"
- Ali Kadri
------- >
https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/we-wont-stop-terrorist-attacks-by-blaming-i...
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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #62 - Apr 1st, 2019 at 1:43pm  
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2019 at 7:46pm:
Quote:
surveys asking how open muslims are to different opinions on Islam, or their view of blasphemy laws - or even any surveys done in the wake of Ahok's gaoling as to how influential it was in determining how they publicly discuss Islam


So the only evidence you would accept is evidence that does not exist?

Quote:
But you could also reference political representation in Indonesia as something resembling an indicative snapshot of society (and by extension their attitudes).


WTF would that prove?


Why would it not exist? All you would have to find is a survey where Indonesians widely support gaoling for blasphemy and similar anti-freedom sentiments. That would at least be something, and infinitely better than just saying "it is because it is" and hurling strawmen and ad-homs.

And the political representation of a democratic country gives a pretty good snapshot of the ideals and values of the society it represents. Certainly electing a secular mayor who stared down Islamists while advocating the building of churches - intuitively seems inconsistent with a society that is an "Islamofascist oppresive shithole"
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Yadda
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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #63 - Apr 1st, 2019 at 4:41pm  
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 1st, 2019 at 1:43pm:

And the political representation of a democratic country gives a pretty good snapshot of the ideals and values of the society it represents. Certainly electing a secular mayor who stared down Islamists while advocating the building of churches - intuitively seems inconsistent with a society that is an "Islamofascist oppresive shithole"




gandalf,

Who in particular, are you alluding to ?

Because that is all that you are doing.

Alluding to something or someone, who may not exist.  !!!!


WWW search....
Indonesia, secular mayor who advocating the building of churches

.....gets no hits of that description.




gandalf,

If you are referring to that Indonesian, Christian governor, of Jakarta, Ahok,
then why don't you refer to him by name, so that we can confirm or rebut your statement ???

Oh, and by the way gandalf,       that Christian governor, of Jakarta, Ahok, did NOT 'stare down ISLAMISTS'.

He was arrested and charged with blasphemy against Allah's religion, for publicly quoting a verse from the Koran.

Apparently to do such a thing, in Indonesia, is a crime, because only followers of ISLAM are permitted in law, to publicly quote verses from the Koran.

??????
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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #64 - Apr 1st, 2019 at 6:43pm  
Yadda wrote on Apr 1st, 2019 at 4:41pm:
gandalf,

Who in particular, are you alluding to ?

Because that is all that you are doing.

Alluding to something or someone, who may not exist.  !!!!


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indonesia-elections-islamists/islamists-fail-...

Rahmat Effendi, the mayor of Bekasi, a city of 2.7 million on the fringes of the capital Jakarta, is on course to be re-elected after winning about 68 per cent of the vote in Wednesday’s elections based on unofficial quick counts.

Effendi, a Muslim, faced sustained criticism from hardliners for approving the building of the Santa Clara church in the staunchly Muslim city after 17 years of rebuffs by local authorities.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Yadda
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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #65 - Apr 1st, 2019 at 7:09pm  


@ Reply #64,

Thank you gandalf.


Comment;     'One swallow does not a summer make...'



Examples [of ISLAM's 'winter' of oppression's].....

http://www.jihadwatch.org/category/Indonesia/

http://www.jihadwatch.org/category/Malaysia/



Look here, for many examples of how, an ISLAMIC majority culture influences a society, for the worse.....


------ >

THE RELIGION OF PEACE

http://thereligionofpeace.com/
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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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freediver
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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #66 - Apr 1st, 2019 at 8:04pm  
Quote:
Why would it not exist? All you would have to find is a survey where Indonesians widely support gaoling for blasphemy and similar anti-freedom sentiments. That would at least be something, and infinitely better than just saying "it is because it is" and hurling strawmen and ad-homs.


Are you aware of any surveys on how influential Ahok's jailing was on how people publicly discuss Islam?

People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf. Demanding evidence is a futile exercise in turd polishing.
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« Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2019 at 8:11pm by freediver »  
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #67 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 8:23am  
freediver wrote on Apr 1st, 2019 at 8:04pm:
People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf


No really it isn't FD. For all the reasons I've stated before.

You can start with how many Indonesians are actually even aware of this case? And of those how many are smart enough to understand the cynicism of it?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #68 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 8:30am  
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 8:23am:
freediver wrote on Apr 1st, 2019 at 8:04pm:
People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf


No really it isn't FD. For all the reasons I've stated before.

You can start with how many Indonesians are actually even aware of this case? And of those how many are smart enough to understand the cynicism of it?


Or he could quote the Pew Survey on Islamic attitudes in Indonesia.

For some reason, FD goes all quiet whenever you mention that.
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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #69 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 9:05am  
Karnal wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 8:30am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 8:23am:
freediver wrote on Apr 1st, 2019 at 8:04pm:
People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf


No really it isn't FD. For all the reasons I've stated before.

You can start with how many Indonesians are actually even aware of this case? And of those how many are smart enough to understand the cynicism of it?


Or he could quote the Pew Survey on Islamic attitudes in Indonesia.




What influence,    does ISLAM have,     upon the followers of ISLAM,     in Indonesia ?


Oh i don't know, karnal.

What other 'indicators' may reveal the degree of that influence ??


WWW search....
churches destroyed in Indonesia
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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #70 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 9:19am  
Karnal wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 8:30am:
Or he could quote the Pew Survey on Islamic attitudes in Indonesia.


Nothing directly relevant, but we get some indication:

Death penalty for leaving Islam - 18%
support for religious freedom - 93%

no indication whatsoever to support the view that (Indonesians believe) people shouldn't be allowed to have robust debate about religion and/or that opinion that diverges away from Islamic orthodoxy should be banned and perpetrators gaoled.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #71 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 11:10am  
Yadda wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 9:05am:
Karnal wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 8:30am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 8:23am:
freediver wrote on Apr 1st, 2019 at 8:04pm:
People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf


No really it isn't FD. For all the reasons I've stated before.

You can start with how many Indonesians are actually even aware of this case? And of those how many are smart enough to understand the cynicism of it?


Or he could quote the Pew Survey on Islamic attitudes in Indonesia.




What influence,    does ISLAM have,     upon the followers of ISLAM,     in Indonesia ?


Oh i don't know, karnal.

What other 'indicators' may reveal the degree of that influence ??


WWW search....
churches destroyed in Indonesia






I know the answer to that one, Y.

Moslem == a follower of Islam.
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Karnal
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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #72 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 11:13am  
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 9:19am:
Karnal wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 8:30am:
Or he could quote the Pew Survey on Islamic attitudes in Indonesia.


Nothing directly relevant, but we get some indication:

Death penalty for leaving Islam - 18%
support for religious freedom - 93%

no indication whatsoever to support the view that (Indonesians believe) people shouldn't be allowed to have robust debate about religion and/or that opinion that diverges away from Islamic orthodoxy should be banned and perpetrators gaoled.


Indeed. I believe the correct term is Islamofascism.

Still, FD has his Negroid subspecies evidence - a "plausible theory".
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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #73 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 12:07pm  
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 8:23am:
freediver wrote on Apr 1st, 2019 at 8:04pm:
People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf


No really it isn't FD. For all the reasons I've stated before.

You can start with how many Indonesians are actually even aware of this case? And of those how many are smart enough to understand the cynicism of it?


Why would they not be aware of it Gandalf?
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Where is, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation ?
Reply #74 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 12:41pm  
freediver wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 12:07pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 8:23am:
freediver wrote on Apr 1st, 2019 at 8:04pm:
People self censoring after others get jailed for blasphemy is stating the bleeding obvious Gandalf


No really it isn't FD. For all the reasons I've stated before.

You can start with how many Indonesians are actually even aware of this case? And of those how many are smart enough to understand the cynicism of it?


Why would they not be aware of it Gandalf?


Because Indonesia is still basically a third world country with limited access to news broadcasts. Its not like it was the President of Indonesia.

I'll wager the case got more coverage in Australia than it did there.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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