Australian Politics Forum - MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque

Setanta

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Re: MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque
Reply #390 - Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:49pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:29pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:19pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 9:48pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 8:02pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 7:55pm:

Quote:

Still missing the point. An AR-15 is not a military assault rifle.

What TF are you sweating about? 'Military' or not...it was pretty damned effective. Take this schit to the 'Gun' or whatever MRB.

It pisses me off a bit when ignorant people speak about firearms in the way that Bobby has. I'm just clearing up the fact it is not a military assault rifle, no more scary than any other semi-auto centrefire. Using that terminology only serves to muddy the waters. Do you have a problem with that? Is any bolt action centrefire with a scope a military sniper rifle?

Set,
OK it was a semi-auto centrefire which has a magazine
and uses high velocity ammunition.

That's only one step away from a fully automatic military weapon.

As I said - in fully automatic mode all
the rounds would be fired in under 2 seconds -
that is useless.
He didn't have that but he might have modified it to do that.

The AR-15 he had was just as dangerous as any military rifle.

Why on earth do they sell those to people - I'll never know?

Seriously don't put your ignorance out for all to see Bobby. Give it up.

Tell me, is a bolt action model 70 Winchester in .308 or 7mm Mag Remington with a scope attached a military sniper rifle?

I never said I was an expert - I'm not an expert.
Let's look at one of them:

Winchester Model 70

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_70
Military use
The United States Marine Corps purchased 373 Model 70 rifles in May, 1942. Although the Marine Corps officially used only the M1 Garand and the M1903 Springfield as sniper rifles during the Second World War, "many Winchester Model 70s showed up at training camps and in actual field use during the Pacific campaign."[11] These rifles had 24-inch sporter barrels chambered for .30-06 Springfield. They were serial numbered in the 41000 to 50000 range and were fitted with leaf sights and checkered stocks with steel butt plates, one-inch sling swivels, and leather slings. It has been reported that some of these rifles were equipped with 8X Unertl telescopic sights for limited unofficial use as sniper weapons on Guadalcanal and during the Korean War.

You think it was by accident I chose the Winchester model 70 as an example? Now tell me, is it a military sniper rifle? Should every M70 with a scope be banned?

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Baronvonrort

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Re: MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque
Reply #391 - Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:54pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:31pm:

The AR15 has a 16 inch barrel which means muzzle velocity will be much lower than what is quoted by wiki which gives velocity for 24 inch barrel.

The 16 inch barrel would lose around 200-300 feet per second muzzle velocity compared to 24 inch barrel.

The .223 Remington is not considered powerful enough for goat/pig /deer hunting.

Really?
You'd think if it would gun down humans so easily it would
easily shoot & kill quickly: goats, pigs or deer.

A .243 Winchester is considered minimum for pigs and goats with a .270 considered minimum for deer.

The soldiers in Vietnam whinged about the M16 being underpowered compared to the AK47. many of our soldiers preferred the L1A1 SLR which is .308/7.62 Nato over the M16.

The AK47 uses 7.62x39 ammo 7.62 Nato is 7.62x51, the 7.62 Nato has a 51mm case compared to 39mm for AK47 so it holds more powder meaning a bigger bang with more velocity and energy.

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Setanta

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Re: MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque
Reply #392 - Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:56pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:31pm:

The AR15 has a 16 inch barrel which means muzzle velocity will be much lower than what is quoted by wiki which gives velocity for 24 inch barrel.

The 16 inch barrel would lose around 200-300 feet per second muzzle velocity compared to 24 inch barrel.

The .223 Remington is not considered powerful enough for goat/pig /deer hunting.

Really?
You'd think if it would gun down humans so easily it would
easily shoot & kill quickly: goats, pigs or deer.

You probably don't understand the criteria of how quick, painlessly and effectively it put's the animal down. I would consider it sufficient for goat, with the right load. IE, not military fmj ammo.

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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35522 Gender:	Re: MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque Reply #393 - Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:57pm tickleandrose wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 9:40pm: Wait one second, I am not here this often... but... is Jasin serious or he is jokingly boasting...? Who can tell? He's nuttier than squirrel poo. More interestingly though, his comments are perfectly fine with management.
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Bobby.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque
Reply #394 - Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:02pm

Setanta wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:49pm:

You think it was by accident I chose the Winchester model 70 as an example? Now tell me, is it a military sniper rifle? Should every M70 with a scope be banned?

I don't like any guns really.

I think that semi-auto guns should be banned in NZ just like here except
for professional hunters shooting vermin.

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Setanta

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Re: MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque
Reply #395 - Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:05pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:54pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:31pm:

The AR15 has a 16 inch barrel which means muzzle velocity will be much lower than what is quoted by wiki which gives velocity for 24 inch barrel.

The 16 inch barrel would lose around 200-300 feet per second muzzle velocity compared to 24 inch barrel.

The .223 Remington is not considered powerful enough for goat/pig /deer hunting.

Really?
You'd think if it would gun down humans so easily it would
easily shoot & kill quickly: goats, pigs or deer.

A .243 Winchester is considered minimum for pigs and goats with a .270 considered minimum for deer.

The soldiers in Vietnam whinged about the M16 being underpowered compared to the AK47. many of our soldiers preferred the L1A1 SLR which is .308/7.62 Nato over the M16.

The AK47 uses 7.62x39 ammo 7.62 Nato is 7.62x51, the 7.62 Nato has a 51mm case compared to 39mm for AK47 so it holds more powder meaning a bigger bang with more velocity and energy.

It should be made know the .243 is a necked down .308/7.62.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque
Reply #396 - Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:06pm

Setanta wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:56pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:31pm:

The AR15 has a 16 inch barrel which means muzzle velocity will be much lower than what is quoted by wiki which gives velocity for 24 inch barrel.

The 16 inch barrel would lose around 200-300 feet per second muzzle velocity compared to 24 inch barrel.

The .223 Remington is not considered powerful enough for goat/pig /deer hunting.

Really?
You'd think if it would gun down humans so easily it would
easily shoot & kill quickly: goats, pigs or deer.

You probably don't understand the criteria of how quick, painlessly and effectively it put's the animal down. I would consider it sufficient for goat, with the right load. IE, not military fmj ammo.

It's not ethical shooting to hunt with something underpowered, the .223 is probably fine for smaller goats and pigs yet can be inadequate for larger ones.

With the M16 one of the thoughts was wounding someone would result in the enemy having to help that person which means more people are taken out of the battle with one shot than if they were killed outright.
Many Americans said this was a mistake and preferred the M1 Garand which killed them outright.

Perhaps Bobby should compare the 30-06 to .223 for energy

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Baronvonrort

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Re: MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque
Reply #397 - Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:12pm

Setanta wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:05pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:54pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:31pm:

The AR15 has a 16 inch barrel which means muzzle velocity will be much lower than what is quoted by wiki which gives velocity for 24 inch barrel.

The 16 inch barrel would lose around 200-300 feet per second muzzle velocity compared to 24 inch barrel.

The .223 Remington is not considered powerful enough for goat/pig /deer hunting.

Really?
You'd think if it would gun down humans so easily it would
easily shoot & kill quickly: goats, pigs or deer.

A .243 Winchester is considered minimum for pigs and goats with a .270 considered minimum for deer.

The soldiers in Vietnam whinged about the M16 being underpowered compared to the AK47. many of our soldiers preferred the L1A1 SLR which is .308/7.62 Nato over the M16.

The AK47 uses 7.62x39 ammo 7.62 Nato is 7.62x51, the 7.62 Nato has a 51mm case compared to 39mm for AK47 so it holds more powder meaning a bigger bang with more velocity and energy.

It should be made know the .243 is a necked down .308/7.62.

Yes you can make .243 brass from .308 cases.

The .260 rem and my favourite the 7mm-08 also come from the same parent case being the .308.

You can get Ar10 chambered in .308/7mm-08/.260 rem and .243 win, since they all come from the same case they use the same magazines. A 1 minute job to swap entire uppers allowing a quick calibre change.

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Setanta

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Re: MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque
Reply #398 - Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:14pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:06pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:56pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:31pm:

The AR15 has a 16 inch barrel which means muzzle velocity will be much lower than what is quoted by wiki which gives velocity for 24 inch barrel.

The 16 inch barrel would lose around 200-300 feet per second muzzle velocity compared to 24 inch barrel.

The .223 Remington is not considered powerful enough for goat/pig /deer hunting.

Really?
You'd think if it would gun down humans so easily it would
easily shoot & kill quickly: goats, pigs or deer.

You probably don't understand the criteria of how quick, painlessly and effectively it put's the animal down. I would consider it sufficient for goat, with the right load. IE, not military fmj ammo.

It's not ethical shooting to hunt with something underpowered, the .223 is probably fine for smaller goats and pigs yet can be inadequate for larger ones.

With the M16 one of the thoughts was wounding someone would result in the enemy having to help that person which means more people are taken out of the battle with one shot than if they were killed outright.
Many Americans said this was a mistake and preferred the M1 Garand which killed them outright.

Perhaps Bobby should compare the 30-06 to .223 for energy

Hence my "right load" for the goats.

All countries militaries have moved on from the "battle rifle" round. We don't fight at that range any more. People are soft skinned game and don't need a 30-06 or even a .308 to take down. For interests sake, the .270 is a necked down 30-06 as the .243 is a necked down .308.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque
Reply #399 - Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:17pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:02pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:49pm:

You think it was by accident I chose the Winchester model 70 as an example? Now tell me, is it a military sniper rifle? Should every M70 with a scope be banned?

I don't like any guns really.

I think that semi-auto guns should be banned in NZ just like here except
for professional hunters shooting vermin.

I don't think we can tell other countries what laws they should have otherwise they might start telling us what laws we should have.

Semi auto rifles aren't banned here Primary Producers as defined by tax dept can have semi auto shotguns and semi auto rimfire rifles.

In Qld Primary Producers and rural landowners can have semi auto centrefire just like NZ.

Those who can prove with tax dept evidence they shoot for a living can have semi auto shotguns, rimfire and centrefire.

Clay target shooters can have semi auto shotguns with our laws.

I don't like sharks or crocodiles does that make me qualified to make policy on those creatures or should we leave that to people who know about sharks and crocodiles?

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Setanta

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Re: MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque
Reply #400 - Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:19pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:12pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:05pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:54pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:31pm:

The AR15 has a 16 inch barrel which means muzzle velocity will be much lower than what is quoted by wiki which gives velocity for 24 inch barrel.

The 16 inch barrel would lose around 200-300 feet per second muzzle velocity compared to 24 inch barrel.

The .223 Remington is not considered powerful enough for goat/pig /deer hunting.

Really?
You'd think if it would gun down humans so easily it would
easily shoot & kill quickly: goats, pigs or deer.

A .243 Winchester is considered minimum for pigs and goats with a .270 considered minimum for deer.

The soldiers in Vietnam whinged about the M16 being underpowered compared to the AK47. many of our soldiers preferred the L1A1 SLR which is .308/7.62 Nato over the M16.

The AK47 uses 7.62x39 ammo 7.62 Nato is 7.62x51, the 7.62 Nato has a 51mm case compared to 39mm for AK47 so it holds more powder meaning a bigger bang with more velocity and energy.

It should be made know the .243 is a necked down .308/7.62.

Yes you can make .243 brass from .308 cases.

The .260 rem and my favourite the 7mm-08 also come from the same parent case being the .308.

You can get Ar10 chambered in .308/7mm-08/.260 rem and .243 win, since they all come from the same case they use the same magazines. A 1 minute job to swap entire uppers allowing a quick calibre change.

Before Howard ficked things up I had a couple of things on my Chrissy list. This was one.
https://ruger.com/products/miniThirty/models.html

No Muslims in sight back then.

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« Last Edit: Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:25pm by Setanta »

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Setanta

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Re: MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque
Reply #401 - Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:28pm

mothra wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:57pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 9:40pm:

Wait one second, I am not here this often... but... is Jasin serious or he is jokingly boasting...? Huh

Who can tell? He's nuttier than squirrel poo.

More interestingly though, his comments are perfectly fine with management.

It seems yours are too. Weird, eh? Perhaps you should be the arbiter of what people may say? Make your own site.

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mothra

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Re: MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque
Reply #402 - Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:29pm

Setanta wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:28pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:57pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 9:40pm:

Wait one second, I am not here this often... but... is Jasin serious or he is jokingly boasting...? Huh

Who can tell? He's nuttier than squirrel poo.

More interestingly though, his comments are perfectly fine with management.

It seems yours are too. Weird, eh?

Mine aren't hate-speech inciting violence.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque
Reply #403 - Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:30pm

Setanta wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:14pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:06pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:56pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:31pm:

The AR15 has a 16 inch barrel which means muzzle velocity will be much lower than what is quoted by wiki which gives velocity for 24 inch barrel.

The 16 inch barrel would lose around 200-300 feet per second muzzle velocity compared to 24 inch barrel.

The .223 Remington is not considered powerful enough for goat/pig /deer hunting.

Really?
You'd think if it would gun down humans so easily it would
easily shoot & kill quickly: goats, pigs or deer.

You probably don't understand the criteria of how quick, painlessly and effectively it put's the animal down. I would consider it sufficient for goat, with the right load. IE, not military fmj ammo.

It's not ethical shooting to hunt with something underpowered, the .223 is probably fine for smaller goats and pigs yet can be inadequate for larger ones.

With the M16 one of the thoughts was wounding someone would result in the enemy having to help that person which means more people are taken out of the battle with one shot than if they were killed outright.
Many Americans said this was a mistake and preferred the M1 Garand which killed them outright.

Perhaps Bobby should compare the 30-06 to .223 for energy

Hence my "right load" for the goats.

All countries militaries have moved on from the "battle rifle" round. We don't fight at that range any more. People are soft skinned game and don't need a 30-06 or even a .308 to take down. For interests sake, the .270 is a necked down 30-06 as the .243 is a necked down .308.

I would like a Barrett MRAD you swap barrels in 1 minute so you can go from .243/.260/7mm-08/.308, if you swap the bolt and barrel you can add .300 wim mag and 7mm rem mag. That would reduce the number of rifles I have from 3 to 1.

The bedwetters in Australia whinge about the number of guns people own yet don't allow us to have the MRAD because it has a folding stock. You can't really fire the MRAD with stock folded as it locks bolt handle into the stock.

A .243 at minimum loads shoots the same weight 55gr projectiles as the .223 about 400 feet per second faster, with full loads around 900 feet per second faster.

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Setanta

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Re: MASS SHOOTING at Christchurch Mosque
Reply #404 - Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:31pm

mothra wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:29pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 11:28pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 10:57pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Mar 16^th, 2019 at 9:40pm:

Wait one second, I am not here this often... but... is Jasin serious or he is jokingly boasting...? Huh

Who can tell? He's nuttier than squirrel poo.

More interestingly though, his comments are perfectly fine with management.

It seems yours are too. Weird, eh?

Mine aren't hate-speech inciting violence.

Did I say they were? I just was taking into consideration your comments are perfectly fine with "management".

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