Australian Politics Forum - Ben Shapiro’s Book Hits #1 In NY Times List

Yadda

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Ben Shapiro’s Book Hits #1 In NY Times List
Mar 29^th, 2019 at 7:12pm

The Right Side of History: How Reason and Moral Purpose Made the West Great

Ben Shapiro’s Book Hits #1 In NY Times List

Quote:

After Shapiro’s Book Hits #1 In NY Times List, The Economist Labels Him 'Alt-Right.' Shapiro Hammers Them. UPDATE: The Economist Apologizes

By Daily Wire
March 28, 2019

https://www.dailywire.com/news/45227/after-shapiros-book-hits-1-ny-times-list-ec...

.

Quote:

The Right Side of History: How Reason and Moral Purpose Made the West Great Hardcover – March 19, 2019

...He came to argue that Western Civilization is in the midst of a crisis of purpose and ideas.

Our freedoms are built upon the twin notions that every human being is made in God’s image and that human beings were created with reason capable of exploring God’s world.

We can thank these values for the birth of science, the dream of progress, human rights, prosperity, peace, and artistic beauty.

Jerusalem and Athens built America, ended slavery, defeated the Nazis and the Communists, lifted billions from poverty and gave billions spiritual purpose.

Jerusalem and Athens were the foundations of the Magna Carta and the Treaty of Westphalia; they were the foundations of Declaration of Independence, Abraham Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, and Martin Luther King Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail.

Civilizations that rejected Jerusalem and Athens have collapsed into dust.

The USSR rejected Judeo-Christian values and Greek natural law, substituting a new utopian vision of “social justice” – and they starved and slaughtered tens of millions of human beings.

The Nazis rejected Judeo-Christian values and Greek natural law, and they shoved children into gas chambers.

Venezuela rejects Judeo-Christian values and Greek natural law, and citizens of their oil-rich nation have been reduced to eating dogs.

https://www.amazon.com/Right-Side-History-Reason-Purpose/dp/0062857908

.

customer review at amazon....
Quote:

Ryan P. Darrow
5.0 out of 5 starsShapiro Does it Again
March 19, 2019
Format: HardcoverVerified Purchase

The Right Side of History is historically accurate and philosophically consistent.

It stays on the academic and logical side of the delicate balance between patriotic nationalism for no other reason than ‘Merica and a reasonable argument that indeed (as he contends in the book),

“As a society, we are forgetting that almost everything great that has ever happened in history happened because of people who believe in both Judeo-Christian values and the Greek-born power of reason.”

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RI3JN1LSTQBY8/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?...

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Richdude Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8457 NC Gender:	Re: Ben Shapiro’s Book Hits #1 In NY Times List Reply #1 - Mar 30^th, 2019 at 8:20pm Well said Yadda. Shapiro is a welcome return to reason. Except I would add Martin Luther to that, who dragged Europe out of the Dark Ages.
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SerialBrain9 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2160	Re: Ben Shapiro’s Book Hits #1 In NY Times List Reply #2 - Mar 31^st, 2019 at 4:41am You have to wonder why when countries have built themselves up so Great that people who have rode on the coattails of this great success suddenly think its their right to tear it all down. Socialists/Greens/Commies for instance.
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SadKangaroo

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Re: Ben Shapiro’s Book Hits #1 In NY Times List
Reply #3 - Mar 31^st, 2019 at 7:52am

I wonder how Shapiro can textualise and convert his fast talking to the page? We know he uses his rapid-fire approach to prevent the opposition from responding to a single well-articulated debate point in person which is his strength no doubt, but without that, what's left?

It’s a method he uses to swamp them with relevant and semi-relevant facts & figures without giving them a chance to respond appropriately. This technique is disallowed in formal debates and open discussion, the likes of which Shapiro has made a habit of avoiding, so how would his book go?

Shouldn't be hard to fact check a static recording of his nonsense when he can't hide behind his usual tactics, but I won't be spending any money on it to do so.

I'm sure others will, we just have to wait and see.

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Panther

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Re: Ben Shapiro’s Book Hits #1 In NY Times List
Reply #4 - Mar 31^st, 2019 at 9:24am

SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 31^st, 2019 at 7:52am:

I wonder how Shapiro can textualise and convert his fast talking to the page? We know he uses his rapid-fire approach to prevent the opposition from responding to a single well-articulated debate point in person which is his strength no doubt, but without that, what's left?

It’s

a method he uses to swamp them with relevant and semi-relevant facts & figures without giving them a chance to respond appropriately. This technique is disallowed in formal debates and open discussion,

the likes of which Shapiro has made a habit of avoiding, so how would his book go?

Shouldn't be hard to fact check a static recording of his nonsense when he can't hide behind his usual tactics, but I won't be spending any money on it to do so.

I'm sure others will, we just have to wait and see.

Have you ever taken part in an actual structured debate, not a group discussion, an actual debate where there are time constraints & the like?

The average human brain can process & comprehend the spoken word at between 350-500 wpm.

Most debaters are more acute in that process.....they have higher wpm numbers......both in speaking & comprehending.....that's why, if you ever watch a debate competition, the rate of speech is quite high, & not restricted.

Now, that said, please corroborate your claim in the above highlighted statement......

I have never known of an speed restrictions in any formal, structured, debate (not a group discussion, no, an actual University level debate competition). So where have you found that
".....this technique is disallowed in formal debates....."?

Informal debates.....discussions.....are a whole 'nother matter all together, where the participants attempt to control the pace, usually for an advantage.

Whenever you take someone out of their comfort zone, in this case Ben Shaperio's faster than average speech, it usually isn't because they cant understand what he's saying, it's just because they want to take his advantage away from him, & place it comfortably in their own hands.

Ben, in ignoring them, is firmly saying to them to "bugger off, I'll talk the way I like"..... You notice he never pays them any mind......at best he will repeat himself, at his preferred pace, & the others will usually have to accept that that's the best they can possibly hope for.

No, Ben Shapiro does not conform to others, others conform to him.

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« Last Edit: Mar 31^st, 2019 at 10:12am by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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SadKangaroo

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Posts: 17160
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Re: Ben Shapiro’s Book Hits #1 In NY Times List
Reply #5 - Mar 31^st, 2019 at 10:15am

Panther wrote on Mar 31^st, 2019 at 9:24am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 31^st, 2019 at 7:52am:

I wonder how Shapiro can textualise and convert his fast talking to the page? We know he uses his rapid-fire approach to prevent the opposition from responding to a single well-articulated debate point in person which is his strength no doubt, but without that, what's left?

It’s

a method he uses to swamp them with relevant and semi-relevant facts & figures without giving them a chance to respond appropriately. This technique is disallowed in formal debates and open discussion,

the likes of which Shapiro has made a habit of avoiding, so how would his book go?

Shouldn't be hard to fact check a static recording of his nonsense when he can't hide behind his usual tactics, but I won't be spending any money on it to do so.

I'm sure others will, we just have to wait and see.

Have you ever taken part in an actual structured debate, not a group discussion, an actual debate where there are time constraints & the like?

The average human brain can process & comprehend the spoken word at between 350-500 wpm.

Most debaters are more acute in that process.....they have higher wpm numbers......both in speaking & comprehending.....that's why, if you ever watch a debate competition, the rate of speech is quite high, & not restricted.

Now, that said, please corroborate your claim in the above highlighted statement......

I have never known of an speed restrictions in any formal, structured, debate (not a group discussion, no, an actual University level debate competition). So where have you found that
".....this technique is disallowed in formal debates....."? http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/imthinkin6.gif

Informal debates.....discussions.....are a whole 'nother matter all together, where the participants attempt to control the pace, usually for an advantage.

Whenever you take someone out of their comfort zone, in this case Ben Shaperio's faster than average speech, it usually isn't because they cant understand what he's saying, it's just because they want to take his advantage away from him, & place it comfortably in their own hands.

Ben, in ignoring them, is firmly saying to them to "bugger off, I'll talk the way I like"..... You notice he never pays them any mind......at best he will repeat himself, at his preferred pace, & the others will usually have to accept that's the best they can possibly hope for.

No, Ben Shapiro does not conform to others, others conform to him.

I did dabble in some debate clubs in my youth (surprise...) and it's considered, at least in this setting to be one of the intellectually-dishonest debate tactics.

The idea of debate isn't just to "trap your enemy" but to convince your audience of your point of view.

A bit part of that is by questioning the opposing narrative, but when that's all one does, it's like winning by default. You're not prosecuting or proving your side, you're just claiming "my opponent is wrong, therefore I must be right" without actually proving that to be true.

That's in a large part Shapiro in a nutshell.

If you take the time to fact check a lot of his claims, very often he has statistics wrong, or the conclusions he reaches aren't supported by the evidence he supplies, but he supplies so much so fast, in the heat of the moment, with the confidence he shows, it's very effective and unless you are a very high level expert in the field he's talking about, you won't have the facts at hand to counter it.

This is why he's very selective about the setting and the people he debates and the audiences he fronts.

I'm not claiming he's stupid or unskilled like Trump. He's very good at what he does, but those tactics, as intellectually dishonest as they are, they don't translate well to the written word.

He has no control of the speed at which someone will read his book. There is no time limit on their retort and fact-checking is possible.

If he doesn't shift gear for the book, bestseller list or not, it will get shot down in flames.

But as I said, I won't be spending a cent on it so I'll have to leave that to someone else to fact check.

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Panther

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My Heart beats True for
the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11441
Gender: male

Re: Ben Shapiro’s Book Hits #1 In NY Times List
Reply #6 - Apr 1^st, 2019 at 10:02am

SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 31^st, 2019 at 10:15am:

Panther wrote on Mar 31^st, 2019 at 9:24am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 31^st, 2019 at 7:52am:

I wonder how Shapiro can textualise and convert his fast talking to the page? We know he uses his rapid-fire approach to prevent the opposition from responding to a single well-articulated debate point in person which is his strength no doubt, but without that, what's left?

It’s

a method he uses to swamp them with relevant and semi-relevant facts & figures without giving them a chance to respond appropriately. This technique is disallowed in formal debates and open discussion,

the likes of which Shapiro has made a habit of avoiding, so how would his book go?

Shouldn't be hard to fact check a static recording of his nonsense when he can't hide behind his usual tactics, but I won't be spending any money on it to do so.

I'm sure others will, we just have to wait and see.

Have you ever taken part in an actual structured debate, not a group discussion, an actual debate where there are time constraints & the like?

The average human brain can process & comprehend the spoken word at between 350-500 wpm.

Most debaters are more acute in that process.....they have higher wpm numbers......both in speaking & comprehending.....that's why, if you ever watch a debate competition, the rate of speech is quite high, & not restricted.

Now, that said, please corroborate your claim in the above highlighted statement......

I have never known of an speed restrictions in any formal, structured, debate (not a group discussion, no, an actual University level debate competition). So where have you found that
".....this technique is disallowed in formal debates....."? http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/imthinkin6.gif

Informal debates.....discussions.....are a whole 'nother matter all together, where the participants attempt to control the pace, usually for an advantage.

Whenever you take someone out of their comfort zone, in this case Ben Shaperio's faster than average speech, it usually isn't because they cant understand what he's saying, it's just because they want to take his advantage away from him, & place it comfortably in their own hands.

Ben, in ignoring them, is firmly saying to them to "bugger off, I'll talk the way I like"..... You notice he never pays them any mind......at best he will repeat himself, at his preferred pace, & the others will usually have to accept that's the best they can possibly hope for.

No, Ben Shapiro does not conform to others, others conform to him.

I did dabble in some debate clubs in my youth (surprise...) and it's considered, at least in this setting to be one of the intellectually-dishonest debate tactics.

The idea of debate isn't just to "trap your enemy" but to convince your audience of your point of view.

A bit part of that is by questioning the opposing narrative, but when that's all one does, it's like winning by default. You're not prosecuting or proving your side, you're just claiming "my opponent is wrong, therefore I must be right" without actually proving that to be true.

That's in a large part Shapiro in a nutshell.

If you take the time to fact check a lot of his claims, very often he has statistics wrong, or the conclusions he reaches aren't supported by the evidence he supplies, but he supplies so much so fast, in the heat of the moment, with the confidence he shows, it's very effective and unless you are a very high level expert in the field he's talking about, you won't have the facts at hand to counter it.

This is why he's very selective about the setting and the people he debates and the audiences he fronts.

I'm not claiming he's stupid or unskilled like Trump. He's very good at what he does, but those tactics, as intellectually dishonest as they are, they don't translate well to the written word.

He has no control of the speed at which someone will read his book. There is no time limit on their retort and fact-checking is possible.

If he doesn't shift gear for the book, bestseller list or not, it will get shot down in flames.

But as I said, I won't be spending a cent on it so I'll have to leave that to someone else to fact check.

A huge difference then between debate here in Australia, & in the U.S..

In America we see that victory is paramount, & getting there is just a formality. The opposition must overcome all, & discover their opponents weaknesses in real time, & strike hard immediately to turn the tables, not after the dust settles, for by that time the victor will be claiming his victory lap, while you're still lickin' yer wounds.....cryin' 'cause you couldn't overcome his 'style'.......awwwww, poor, poor, you!

Free Speech does not entitle you to be free from being offended.......The Freedom of Speech protects offensive & hateful speech.

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« Last Edit: Apr 1^st, 2019 at 10:10am by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

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SadKangaroo

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Posts: 17160
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Re: Ben Shapiro’s Book Hits #1 In NY Times List
Reply #7 - Apr 1^st, 2019 at 10:16am

Panther wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 10:02am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 31^st, 2019 at 10:15am:

Panther wrote on Mar 31^st, 2019 at 9:24am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 31^st, 2019 at 7:52am:

I wonder how Shapiro can textualise and convert his fast talking to the page? We know he uses his rapid-fire approach to prevent the opposition from responding to a single well-articulated debate point in person which is his strength no doubt, but without that, what's left?

It’s

a method he uses to swamp them with relevant and semi-relevant facts & figures without giving them a chance to respond appropriately. This technique is disallowed in formal debates and open discussion,

the likes of which Shapiro has made a habit of avoiding, so how would his book go?

Shouldn't be hard to fact check a static recording of his nonsense when he can't hide behind his usual tactics, but I won't be spending any money on it to do so.

I'm sure others will, we just have to wait and see.

Have you ever taken part in an actual structured debate, not a group discussion, an actual debate where there are time constraints & the like?

The average human brain can process & comprehend the spoken word at between 350-500 wpm.

Most debaters are more acute in that process.....they have higher wpm numbers......both in speaking & comprehending.....that's why, if you ever watch a debate competition, the rate of speech is quite high, & not restricted.

Now, that said, please corroborate your claim in the above highlighted statement......

I have never known of an speed restrictions in any formal, structured, debate (not a group discussion, no, an actual University level debate competition). So where have you found that
".....this technique is disallowed in formal debates....."? http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/imthinkin6.gif

Informal debates.....discussions.....are a whole 'nother matter all together, where the participants attempt to control the pace, usually for an advantage.

Whenever you take someone out of their comfort zone, in this case Ben Shaperio's faster than average speech, it usually isn't because they cant understand what he's saying, it's just because they want to take his advantage away from him, & place it comfortably in their own hands.

Ben, in ignoring them, is firmly saying to them to "bugger off, I'll talk the way I like"..... You notice he never pays them any mind......at best he will repeat himself, at his preferred pace, & the others will usually have to accept that's the best they can possibly hope for.

No, Ben Shapiro does not conform to others, others conform to him.

I did dabble in some debate clubs in my youth (surprise...) and it's considered, at least in this setting to be one of the intellectually-dishonest debate tactics.

The idea of debate isn't just to "trap your enemy" but to convince your audience of your point of view.

A bit part of that is by questioning the opposing narrative, but when that's all one does, it's like winning by default. You're not prosecuting or proving your side, you're just claiming "my opponent is wrong, therefore I must be right" without actually proving that to be true.

That's in a large part Shapiro in a nutshell.

If you take the time to fact check a lot of his claims, very often he has statistics wrong, or the conclusions he reaches aren't supported by the evidence he supplies, but he supplies so much so fast, in the heat of the moment, with the confidence he shows, it's very effective and unless you are a very high level expert in the field he's talking about, you won't have the facts at hand to counter it.

This is why he's very selective about the setting and the people he debates and the audiences he fronts.

I'm not claiming he's stupid or unskilled like Trump. He's very good at what he does, but those tactics, as intellectually dishonest as they are, they don't translate well to the written word.

He has no control of the speed at which someone will read his book. There is no time limit on their retort and fact-checking is possible.

If he doesn't shift gear for the book, bestseller list or not, it will get shot down in flames.

But as I said, I won't be spending a cent on it so I'll have to leave that to someone else to fact check.

A huge difference then between debate here in Australia, & in the U.S..

In America we see that victory is paramount, & getting there is just a formality. The opposition must overcome all, & discover their opponents weaknesses in real time, & strike hard immediately to turn the tables, not after the dust settles, for by that time the victor will be claiming his victory lap, while you're still lickin' yer wounds.....cryin' 'cause you couldn't overcome his 'style'.......awwwww, poor, poor, you!

Free Speech does not entitle you to be free from being offended.......The Freedom of Speech protects offensive & hateful speech.

That's fine, but his style won't work so well outside of those specific debate landscapes.

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Panther

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My Heart beats True for
the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11441
Gender: male

Re: Ben Shapiro’s Book Hits #1 In NY Times List
Reply #8 - Apr 1^st, 2019 at 4:24pm

SadKangaroo wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 10:16am:

Panther wrote on Apr 1^st, 2019 at 10:02am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 31^st, 2019 at 10:15am:

Panther wrote on Mar 31^st, 2019 at 9:24am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 31^st, 2019 at 7:52am:

I wonder how Shapiro can textualise and convert his fast talking to the page? We know he uses his rapid-fire approach to prevent the opposition from responding to a single well-articulated debate point in person which is his strength no doubt, but without that, what's left?

It’s

a method he uses to swamp them with relevant and semi-relevant facts & figures without giving them a chance to respond appropriately. This technique is disallowed in formal debates and open discussion,

Shouldn't be hard to fact check a static recording of his nonsense when he can't hide behind his usual tactics, but I won't be spending any money on it to do so.

I'm sure others will, we just have to wait and see.

Have you ever taken part in an actual structured debate, not a group discussion, an actual debate where there are time constraints & the like?

The average human brain can process & comprehend the spoken word at between 350-500 wpm.

Most debaters are more acute in that process.....they have higher wpm numbers......both in speaking & comprehending.....that's why, if you ever watch a debate competition, the rate of speech is quite high, & not restricted.

Now, that said, please corroborate your claim in the above highlighted statement......

I have never known of an speed restrictions in any formal, structured, debate (not a group discussion, no, an actual University level debate competition). So where have you found that
".....this technique is disallowed in formal debates....."? http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/imthinkin6.gif

Informal debates.....discussions.....are a whole 'nother matter all together, where the participants attempt to control the pace, usually for an advantage.

Whenever you take someone out of their comfort zone, in this case Ben Shaperio's faster than average speech, it usually isn't because they cant understand what he's saying, it's just because they want to take his advantage away from him, & place it comfortably in their own hands.

Ben, in ignoring them, is firmly saying to them to "bugger off, I'll talk the way I like"..... You notice he never pays them any mind......at best he will repeat himself, at his preferred pace, & the others will usually have to accept that's the best they can possibly hope for.

No, Ben Shapiro does not conform to others, others conform to him.

I did dabble in some debate clubs in my youth (surprise...) and it's considered, at least in this setting to be one of the intellectually-dishonest debate tactics.

The idea of debate isn't just to "trap your enemy" but to convince your audience of your point of view.

A bit part of that is by questioning the opposing narrative, but when that's all one does, it's like winning by default. You're not prosecuting or proving your side, you're just claiming "my opponent is wrong, therefore I must be right" without actually proving that to be true.

That's in a large part Shapiro in a nutshell.

If you take the time to fact check a lot of his claims, very often he has statistics wrong, or the conclusions he reaches aren't supported by the evidence he supplies, but he supplies so much so fast, in the heat of the moment, with the confidence he shows, it's very effective and unless you are a very high level expert in the field he's talking about, you won't have the facts at hand to counter it.

I'm not claiming he's stupid or unskilled like Trump. He's very good at what he does, but those tactics, as intellectually dishonest as they are, they don't translate well to the written word.

He has no control of the speed at which someone will read his book. There is no time limit on their retort and fact-checking is possible.

If he doesn't shift gear for the book, bestseller list or not, it will get shot down in flames.

But as I said, I won't be spending a cent on it so I'll have to leave that to someone else to fact check.

A huge difference then between debate here in Australia, & in the U.S..

In America we see that victory is paramount, & getting there is just a formality. The opposition must overcome all, & discover their opponents weaknesses in real time, & strike hard immediately to turn the tables, not after the dust settles, for by that time the victor will be claiming his victory lap, while you're still lickin' yer wounds.....cryin' 'cause you couldn't overcome his 'style'.......awwwww, poor, poor, you!

Free Speech does not entitle you to be free from being offended.......The Freedom of Speech protects offensive & hateful speech.

That's fine, but his style won't work so well outside of those specific debate landscapes.

He's not running for office, nor appointment to the Supreme Court, so your point is itself moot....

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"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

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