Australian Politics Forum - Here's your chance gandalf!, to support the views

Yadda

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Here's your chance gandalf!, to support the views
Apr 7^th, 2019 at 7:01pm

Here's your chance gandalf!, to support the views of a moslem cleric in Indonesia.

.

IMAGE.....

"Yahya Cholil Staquf - the secretary-general of Indonesia’s Nahdlatul Ulama movement"

Quote:

By Christine Douglass-Williams on Apr 06, 2019

Muslim cleric: “Jihadist doctrine can be traced to specific tenets of orthodox, authoritative Islam”

The senior member of the world’s biggest Muslim organisation has insisted that Islamophobia is not rooted in racism and that
the distrust of Muslims in many countries is a result of Islamist extremism and terrorism throughout the world.

.....He called for a rejection of Islamic orthodoxy, condemning it as “obsolete and problematic” and “fuelling violence on both sides”.

.....“The truth, we recognise, is that jihadist doctrine, goals and strategy can be traced to specific tenets of orthodox, authoritative Islam and its historic practice.

This includes those portions of sharia that promote Islamic supremacy, encourage enmity towards non-Muslims and require the establishment of a caliphate.

It is these elements – still taught by most Sunni and Shiite institutions – that constitute a summons to perpetual conflict,” he wrote...

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/04/muslim-cleric-jihadist-doctrine-can-be-traced...

gandalf,

It sounds like some of the views of Yahya Cholil Staquf regarding ISLAM's hostile militancy towards/against non-moslems,
align with my own!

< ------ What is your reaction to that, my statement, gandalf ?

Or, is this line of questioning, too 'insulting', for you to comment on ?

gandalf,

And another question for you.

How long will Yahya Cholil Staquf hold onto his head, do you think ???

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Bias_2012 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10766 Gender:	Re: Here's your chance gandalf!, to support the views Reply #1 - Apr 7^th, 2019 at 7:35pm Smart guy that Staquf bloke Gandalf has a bit of catching up to do
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Yadda

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Re: Here's your chance gandalf!, to support the views
Reply #2 - Apr 7^th, 2019 at 7:48pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Apr 7^th, 2019 at 7:35pm:

Smart guy that Staquf bloke

A moslem, who is not averse to the truth!

What is this world coming to ???

Maybe Yahya Cholil Staquf is a real believer, in God, .....the God of truth ?

Yadda said....

Dear muslim, YOU are the kuffar

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229682951/0#0
Quote:

Dear muslim, YOU are the kuffar, YOU are the unbeliever.

You who embrace ISLAM, your own lies and deception, have become a witness against you, before God.

You muslims insist that ONLY muslims are the 'properly guided'.

Is he who is on a path of lies and deception, 'properly guided'??

AN EXPLANATION OF THE WORD 'KUFFAR'...

"kuffar" = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuffar

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 49356 Gender:	Re: Here's your chance gandalf!, to support the views Reply #3 - Apr 7^th, 2019 at 9:44pm He'll be dead soon. The 'French' price hasn't been paid yet.
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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Here's your chance gandalf!, to support the views Reply #4 - Apr 7^th, 2019 at 9:47pm Staquf is obviously an apologist for Islamophobia. Ask our resident doctor of divinity. He's and expert on such matters.
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Yadda

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Re: Here's your chance gandalf!, to support the views
Reply #5 - Apr 7^th, 2019 at 10:15pm

issuevoter wrote on Apr 7^th, 2019 at 9:47pm:

Staquf is obviously an apologist for Islamophobia.

Ask our resident doctor of divinity. He's and expert on such matters.

LOL, issue !

Yeah, i can imagine that Yahya Cholil Staquf may have to be v. 'careful',
for the rest of his life.

But it is sad really.

A guy, willing to speak truth to power regarding ISLAM, and he is likely to be 'rudely' assassinated now.

Dear Father, i pray, please look after this fellow, Yahya Cholil Staquf.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Here's your chance gandalf!, to support the views
Reply #6 - Apr 8^th, 2019 at 9:26am

Quote:

Netanyahu unexpectedly meets with Indonesian Muslim leader

By AP
15 June 2018

Yahya Staquf, who heads world’s largest Muslim organization, says he wants to promote ties with Jerusalem, but stresses he came to affirm ‘Palestine’s sovereignty’

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-unexpectedly-meets-with-indonesian-musli...

He travelled to Israel, and he met with Netanyahu !

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Here's your chance gandalf!, to support the views
Reply #7 - Apr 8^th, 2019 at 12:45pm

Any moslems on this forum, what is your opinion of the opinion of Yahya Cholil Staquf, an Indonesian moslem cleric ?

He is a moslem cleric who attacked/criticised ISLAMIC religious orthodoxy, because that orthodoxy justifies and encourages violence against non-moslems.

"He called for a rejection of Islamic orthodoxy, condemning it as “obsolete and problematic”... "

See details in the OP.

Silence speaks volumes.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Here's your chance gandalf!, to support the views
Reply #8 - Apr 8^th, 2019 at 3:40pm

Since the OP went up, witness all of the moslems rushing to endorse the views of Yahya Cholil Staquf,
and his rejection of the ISLAMIC violence and extremism towards non-moslems [which he identifies as being facilitated, in current ISLAMIC religious orthodoxy].

All of the moslems, who will publicly declare themselves, truly, to be peace-loving moslems, who willingly embrace a tolerance of those persons who are not members of their religion.

And who wholly reject the extremism and violence, we see so often today.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Here's your chance gandalf!, to support the views
Reply #9 - Apr 10^th, 2019 at 10:31am

This must be part of the healthy marketplace of religious debate in Indonesia that apparently doesn't exist

I must say it surprising hearing the head of Indonesia's (and the world's) largest muslim organization so openly uttering such 'blasphemy' in a country where everyone apparently self-censors and only Islamic extremists are free to say whatever they want.

As for his thesis, sounds a bit too much like victim blaming to me. There are no jihadists in New Zealand, no Islamic terrorist threat, nor any emnity among the muslim community towards non-muslims that I am aware of. Personally I think that Islamophobia and neo-nazi threats are a "thing" in and of themselves, that don't need to be explained solely by Islamic militarism.

I agree though with his overall sentiment that muslims need to expunge any supremacist doctrine that foster emnity and hostility towards non-muslims from Islamic teachings. Thats kinda stating the bleeding obvious though.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Yadda

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Re: Here's your chance gandalf!, to support the views
Reply #10 - Apr 10^th, 2019 at 11:15am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 10:31am:

This must be part of the healthy marketplace of religious debate in Indonesia that apparently doesn't exist

I must say it surprising hearing the head of Indonesia's (and the world's) largest muslim organization so openly uttering such 'blasphemy' in a country where everyone apparently self-censors and only Islamic extremists are free to say whatever they want.

As for his thesis, sounds a bit too much like victim blaming to me. There are no jihadists in New Zealand, no Islamic terrorist threat, nor any emnity among the muslim community towards non-muslims that I am aware of. Personally I think that Islamophobia and neo-nazi threats are a "thing" in and of themselves, that don't need to be explained solely by Islamic militarism.

I agree though with his overall sentiment that muslims need to expunge any supremacist doctrine that foster emnity and hostility towards non-muslims from Islamic teachings.

Thats kinda stating the bleeding obvious though.

gandalf,

And what realistic chance ? ....that moslems themselves, will agree, 'to expunge any supremacist doctrine that foster emnity and hostility towards non-muslims from Islamic teachings.' ???

Given that [to the followers of ISLAM] the Koran must remain, as being viewed, as a sacrosanct, immutable, inerrant, document.

The words; 'snowflake' and 'chance in hell', come to mind.

Because we must understand, that ISLAM's most important foundation text, the Koran, is inerrant, being attributed [by all followers of ISLAM] as coming straight from Allah's holy lips !!

.

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred...."
Koran 58.22

"O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers."
Koran 9.23

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Here's your chance gandalf!, to support the views
Reply #11 - Apr 10^th, 2019 at 11:29am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10^th, 2019 at 10:31am:

I must say it surprising hearing the head of Indonesia's (and the world's) largest muslim organization so openly uttering such 'blasphemy' in a country where everyone apparently self-censors and only Islamic extremists are free to say whatever they want.

Indonesia.

Not really, the 'exemplar' moslem majority nation then ?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1552398731/4#4

If, 'This [is indeed] part of the healthy marketplace of religious debate',
and if we are focusing our scrutiny at this time, upon the professed virtues of ISLAM ???

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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