Australian Politics Forum - If Trump is going to lie, he should remember...

SadKangaroo

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If Trump is going to lie, he should remember...
Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:24am

If Trump is going to lie so much, he should remember to avoid falsehoods that real people can easily discredit.

Given that there isn't an army of people on the left within the confines of this forum to match that of the right in terms of volume of posting, I'm not surprised that some of this may be news to people, at least on here.

I was even duped when praising Trump for the outcome of his tariff threats against Mexico. But sadly, as usual, it was all a lie.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/while-trump-touts-illusory-deal-mexico-t...

Quote:

While Trump touts illusory deal, Mexico tells inconvenient truths

Since Friday afternoon, Donald Trump has made three related boasts about his policy toward Mexico. The first is that the president successfully forced our neighbors to impose dramatic new curbs on immigrants, thanks entirely to his tariffs threat. The second is that Mexico “agreed to immediately begin buying large quantities of agricultural product” from American farmers.

And the third is that the bilateral agreement includes secret benefits that Trump isn’t yet prepared to divulge to the public.

It quickly became obvious that the first claim is wrong, because the steps Mexico is taking were agreed to months ago. The second claim was also quickly debunked on a variety of levels, including the fact that there’s nothing in the agreement about agricultural purchases.

As for the Republican’s assurances about secret elements of the agreement, it wasn’t long before Mexican officials conceded they haven’t the foggiest idea what Trump was talking about.

The Mexican foreign minister said Monday that no secret immigration deal existed between his country and the United States, directly contradicting President Trump’s claim on Twitter that a “fully signed and documented” agreement would soon be revealed.

Speaking with reporters, Mexican Foreign Secretary Marcelo Ebrard held up a copy of the signed agreement and pointed to its provisions. Debunking the American president’s odd rhetoric, Ebrard said, “There is no other thing beyond what I have just explained.”

It’s a curious posture: Trump, whose strained relationship with reality is well documented, insists the secret deal is real, but he can’t tell us what’s in it, when he’ll talk about it, or why the other party in the purported deal seems wholly unaware of it.

Last week, Trump made up a quote from NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, who soon after made clear that he never said what Trump claimed he said.

Trump invented the quote out of thin air,

Quote:

“Secretary Stoltenberg has been maybe Trump’s biggest fan, to be honest with you. He goes around – he made a speech the other day, he said, ‘Without Donald Trump maybe there would be no NATO.’”

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-forgets-important-rule-dont-make-q...

Quote:

Stoltenberg appears to have said nothing of the sort. He and other NATO leaders have publicly praised Trump for pressuring other countries to contribute more to fund the alliance, but there is no record of him saying anything about Trump saving NATO.

Lies lies lies...

And the faithful don't bother to fact check, they just give praise, accepting the lies and truth because they want to, like:

it_is_the_light wrote on Jun 12^th, 2019 at 4:24am:

Bill Binney has the goods , meanwhile

Mexico folds ,,Trump has made the deal thanks to the previous tarrif announcements

And has the signed document he shows here

Trump, desperate for a win and to prove his approach of using tariffs for everything works, even if it imposes a great cost on the people, especially those who can afford it the least, he used an agreement he already had with Mexico, then claimed publicly if they didn't do what secretly they'd already agreed to do, he'd hit them with tariffs.

That way when they honour the agreement they'd already signed, agreed to and were obligated to follow, their actions will be painted as happening BECAUSE of the tariffs, not the agreement he wanted to keep secret.

But as usual, Trump has been exposed, like so many on here, for his lies.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: If Trump is going to lie, he should remember...
Reply #1 - Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:30am

"I spent the first two decades of my career as a social scientist studying liars and their lies.

"I thought I had developed a sense of what to expect from them. Then along came President Donald Trump.

"His lies are both more frequent and more malicious than ordinary people's."

I study liars. I've never seen one like Donald Trump

"By telling so many lies, and so many that are mean-spirited, Trump is violating some of the most fundamental norms of human social interaction and human decency.

"Many of the rest of us, in turn, have abandoned a norm of our own — we no longer give Trump the benefit of the doubt that we usually give so readily."

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SadKangaroo

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Re: If Trump is going to lie, he should remember...
Reply #2 - Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:53am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:30am:

"Many of the rest of us, in turn, have abandoned a norm of our own — we no longer give Trump the benefit of the doubt that we usually give so readily."

I never realised how much I do that. The moment he makes a claim, I assume it's untrue then go and check to she how much he's lied, not "if" he's lied.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: If Trump is going to lie, he should remember...
Reply #3 - Jun 12^th, 2019 at 9:25am

SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:53am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:30am:

"Many of the rest of us, in turn, have abandoned a norm of our own — we no longer give Trump the benefit of the doubt that we usually give so readily."

I never realised how much I do that. The moment he makes a claim, I assume it's untrue then go and check to she how much he's lied, not "if" he's lied.

Exactly.

I do the same.

In all my life I have never seen anyone lie like Trump.

Everything he says is a lie, and everything about him is a lie.

e.g. marriages, hair, skin colour, reported wealth, height, weight, IQ, etc.

Sometimes I truly feel sorry for him.

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Fuzzball Gold Member Offline Posts: 6381 Australia Gender:	Re: If Trump is going to lie, he should remember... Reply #4 - Jun 12^th, 2019 at 9:43am As Miss Pessary so often illustrates on this forum, 'If you're going to be a good liar, you have to have a good memory'........... sometimes he slips-up and exposes his duplicity quite clearly........
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greggerypeccary

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Re: If Trump is going to lie, he should remember...
Reply #5 - Jun 12^th, 2019 at 10:17am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:30am:

"I spent the first two decades of my career as a social scientist studying liars and their lies.

"I thought I had developed a sense of what to expect from them. Then along came President Donald Trump.

"His lies are both more frequent and more malicious than ordinary people's."

I study liars. I've never seen one like Donald Trump

"By telling so many lies, and so many that are mean-spirited, Trump is violating some of the most fundamental norms of human social interaction and human decency.

"Many of the rest of us, in turn, have abandoned a norm of our own — we no longer give Trump the benefit of the doubt that we usually give so readily."

Nearly two-thirds of Trump's lies (65 percent) were self-serving. Examples included: "They're big tax cuts — the biggest cuts in the history of our country, actually" and, about the people who came to see him on a presidential visit to Vietnam last month: "They were really lined up in the streets by the tens of thousands."

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SadKangaroo

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Re: If Trump is going to lie, he should remember...
Reply #6 - Jun 12^th, 2019 at 10:21am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 12^th, 2019 at 9:25am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:53am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:30am:

"Many of the rest of us, in turn, have abandoned a norm of our own — we no longer give Trump the benefit of the doubt that we usually give so readily."

I never realised how much I do that. The moment he makes a claim, I assume it's untrue then go and check to she how much he's lied, not "if" he's lied.

Exactly.

I do the same.

In all my life I have never seen anyone lie like Trump.

Everything he says is a lie, and everything about him is a lie.

e.g. marriages, hair, skin colour, reported wealth, height, weight, IQ, etc.

Sometimes I truly feel sorry for him.

The reason I never trusted him was because of his history pre-politics.

All I knew of Donald Trump was that he was that rich guy in Home Alone 2 at The Plaza Hotel.

(Christmas Tradition, every year we watch Die Hard, Home Alone and Home Alone 2 ever since I was young)

Then 9/11 happened.

As I was about to leave to ride to school, the 2nd plane hit. We stayed home that day as we had friends who live and worked in New York, some in the WTC. I didn't really know them but it shook my parents.

From then on it was a massive topic around the house. Thankfully our friends were fine but some at ground zero on the day.

Then we saw that Donald Trump was credited with searching for survivors in the rubble and we heard from our friends that this wasn't true. He arrived in a suit, took some photos and then he and his entourage left. We didn't really have such ready access to the internet back then so there was no way to check or get more information, so we just had to trust them.

I've also got Scottish relatives on my father's side who lived in Aberdeen. They also never had anything nice to say about Trump because he said such petty things about the people who he was trying to force to sell their homes and threatening them in the media, lied about them and the dangers of Wind Mills because he wanted ocean views from the course, not windmills.

It didn't take long to learn more about him after that. Reading his books, his history and more recently the content of his twitter from 2009 you got a real insight into the type of person he is.

What we were hearing from our friends in New York didn't help. The city, despite what Trump's fans may say, doesn't like him nor do they think they own him credit for saving the city. He got millions and millions of dollars from the local government for his developments with no requirement to pay it all back, money that could have gone to bettering the city rather than Trump. And many of the developments he did with great subsidies were not great successes.

But he and his supporters claimed they were and he was owed a debt of gratitude.

He's a loud mouth liar who unfairly taints the idea of a typical New Yorker. He will attack people, especially women, very personally and thinks that makes him a great, powerful and strong man.

I've never liked him which is why I couldn't believe firstly some of the things he said very early on in the campaign but also I couldn't believe that anyone else did believe them.

He's lucky that he was on the apprentice for so long and had people who admired his character's wealth and power. They don't know the true Trump and now that he's President, they don't want to.

Yet he keeps lying. Now that he's in the spotlight, people are finding out from his past alone, just how much of it was blatantly untrue. He was so desperate to be seen as better than he was that he even possed as his own publicist...

He is truly pathetic and weak, and that was before the 2016 election.

TLDR, his actions before and after entering politics paint him, very accurately, as one of the most dishonest politicians we've ever had so high in politics in the US and even AU (which includes Abbott) and a petty, weak, vindictive and devastatingly fragile ego-driven man. I am not surprised that I immediately assume that claims he's makes are false, the only question is how false.

That's why fact-checking is so importat.

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Karnal

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Re: If Trump is going to lie, he should remember...
Reply #7 - Jun 12^th, 2019 at 2:08pm

Good post, Sad.

All I knew about Donald Trump was he was a rich-kid who appeared on shows like Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. He had the suit, tie and 80s blow-wave, but most importantly, that superior smugness that comes from being born rich. He appeared friendly and relaxed on TV, never shaken, never saying a bad word about anyone. Donald Trump presented as an uber-WASP, but one who revelled in chintz like gold lifts and toilets. The Donald celebrated 80s greed, Bonfire of the Vanities-style.

Then he divorced Ivana and remarried, then he went bankrupt, then he divorced again, all in the celebrity rags you find in piles at your doctor or dentist's. Throughout it all, he still appeared calm and in control, his staged photos beaming back at you.

It was obvious, given the coverage, that Donald Trump promoted himself or had a celebrity agent. It was obvious from his quotes that he initiated most of those stories.

I read the Art of the Deal when I found an old copy somewhere and had nothing else to read. This was during the Trump dark days, when he was considered a caricature of 1980s bloatedness. The Art of the Deal was dated almost immediately after it came out. It was full of materialistic vanity and self-worship, but it was a good read just the same. It held you.

And then, his comeback, the Apprentice. Here, we got to see Donald Trump without a script. By then, he had a different personality to The Richie Rich Donald - erratic, slightly unhinged, and quite dumb. The Apprentice was mostly about product placement. Donald Trump promoted whatever company that paid him that week. Donald Trump appeared as a fast-talking Yank - the very epitome of the Dumb American. The contestants called him Mr Trump or sir, just like the old days.

But still, the Apprentice held you. It kept you viewing through the ads. It was the show you watched tongue-in-cheek - bad, but compelling, TV.

Donald Trump played the self-made man, but we know now, of course, that this was just a bit of fun. Donald Trump made most of his money from his father's trust fund. His father bailed him out when his casinos went under - at least until his bankruptcies kicked in. The Trump image appealed to the notion of aspiration, but the truth was that Donald Trump was an heir all along, a trust-fund kid.

All Donald Trump has ever done is self-promote. He's now self-promoted himself to the White House. He never intended to get there. All he ever intended to do was crash the Republican Party, get a political "profile" and get his own talk show. He probably didn't expect to make it past the primaries, but once he did, the momentum took over.

And now? The show must go on. Donald Trump represents everything his followers complain about: corruption, elitism, cronyism, globalisation. As Donald Trump famously said in the Republican primary debate, "I've donated to most of you".

He had too. This is the Trump family way - grease palms and graft, Republican, Democrat, whoever. The Clintons even attended his wedding. Donald Trump had always praised the Clintons. He'd endorsed Hillary as a New York senator.

So there's that. But he also greases foreign politicians. Imagine, the MAGA anti-globalist was over in Scotland paying people off left, right and centre. When the locals protested against his exclusive, members-only golf club, he greased, bribed and threatened even more, deliberately building out their views, blocking their roads, and at one point, shutting off their water. Imagine an American property developer doing that in your neighbourhood.

Globalism, it would seem, has its discontents, but surely the biggest hoax pulled by the Donald is the one that he's a straight-talking populist. This is by far his biggest coup. How does an ageing celebrity billionaire get to become a man of the people?

This was never the Donald Trump we knew, and if you believe it, you'll fall for anything.

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« Last Edit: Jun 12^th, 2019 at 5:50pm by Karnal »

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aquascoot

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Re: If Trump is going to lie, he should remember...
Reply #8 - Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:05pm

trumps a BS artist.

he lies and lies and lies.

but there is an authenticity about the fact that he never pretended to be anything else that "connects" with the deplorables.

i think it was a smart move.

americans LOVE professional wrestling, the WWE, the guys on it are just actors, of course.
if the amercian public wanted to watch fighting that wasnt ' a lie" , they could watch mixed martial arts MME fighting.

but they prefer the fantasy industrial complex.

america was founded on the quest for gold (el derado) and the quest for a new garden of eden (evangelical christianity).
americans love the fantasy, hollywood, the american dream.

thats why they love trump.

hilary, obama, bill, a couple of bushes...for gawds sake, are they the stuff of hollywood?

but the donald "gets it".
he understands his people.
a people who invented mormonism and scientology, who love a conspiracy theory and who have a constant need to be entertained.

come re election time, the american people will look deep inside their emotional state and they will ask themselves, 'does this guy entertain me'
"if i vote him out, he wont be on telly and will i miss him".

there is a very very good chance the donald could get a second term.

if i was advising the donald, i would advise him to lie a lot more and even have a team of trolls writing BS to feed thru facebook and twitter.

headlines like "trump caught in bed with kelly conway", or "trump to lead mass at the vatican" or 'trump and putin to star in new reality tv show."

all publicity is good publicity.
americans dont care if he lies, they just care if he bores them.
i mean, gweggies 2000th post on trump being an alledged sex offender is just boring.
he needs to get some new material.

get steve bannon onto it.
get milo onto it.

god bless america, god bless the big goofy orange haired guy who has got the american people to take washington a whole lot less seriously

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 58065 Here Gender:	Re: If Trump is going to lie, he should remember... Reply #9 - Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:27pm Retrospective threats, Three months after making the deal you find out why you had to make the deal ? Just think how effective retrospective threats can be, imagine the next deal with Mexico they will have no idea why they have to agree and be too frightened not to.
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95187 Gender:	Re: If Trump is going to lie, he should remember... Reply #10 - Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:28pm I say, Aquascoot, are you aware that the Donald is history's most powerful country's head of state? I'm curious. I'm keen to know what you think.
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Dnarever

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Re: If Trump is going to lie, he should remember...
Reply #11 - Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:28pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:05pm:

trumps a BS artist.

he lies and lies and lies.

but there is an authenticity about the fact that he never pretended to be anything else that "connects" with the deplorables.

i think it was a smart move.

americans LOVE professional wrestling, the WWE, the guys on it are just actors, of course.
if the amercian public wanted to watch fighting that wasnt ' a lie" , they could watch mixed martial arts MME fighting.

You have to be taking the p1ss - nobody is that stupid.

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aquascoot Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34269 Gender:	Re: If Trump is going to lie, he should remember... Reply #12 - Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:31pm Karnal wrote on Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:28pm: I say, Aquascoot, are you aware that the Donald is history's most powerful country's head of state? I'm curious. I'm keen to know what you think. i think the voters dont get what they want i think they get what they "are" the 'law of attraction"
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Karnal

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Re: If Trump is going to lie, he should remember...
Reply #13 - Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:35pm

Dnarever wrote on Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:28pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:05pm:

trumps a BS artist.

he lies and lies and lies.

but there is an authenticity about the fact that he never pretended to be anything else that "connects" with the deplorables.

i think it was a smart move.

americans LOVE professional wrestling, the WWE, the guys on it are just actors, of course.
if the amercian public wanted to watch fighting that wasnt ' a lie" , they could watch mixed martial arts MME fighting.

You have to be taking the p1ss - nobody is that stupid.

No no, Aquascoot's saying Americans are that stupid. He's saying they're so dumb, they'll drive America into the ground to keep Mr Trump on TV.

Aquascoot's changed his view on Mr Trump making Amerika great again, he just wants to keep Mr Trump on the telly like everybody else.

Whatever it takes, eh?

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aquascoot

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Re: If Trump is going to lie, he should remember...
Reply #14 - Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:43pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:35pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:28pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 12^th, 2019 at 8:05pm:

trumps a BS artist.

he lies and lies and lies.

but there is an authenticity about the fact that he never pretended to be anything else that "connects" with the deplorables.

i think it was a smart move.

americans LOVE professional wrestling, the WWE, the guys on it are just actors, of course.
if the amercian public wanted to watch fighting that wasnt ' a lie" , they could watch mixed martial arts MME fighting.

You have to be taking the p1ss - nobody is that stupid.

No no, Aquascoot's saying Americans are that stupid. He's saying they're so dumb, they'll drive America into the ground to keep Mr Trump on TV.

Aquascoot's changed his view on Mr Trump making Amerika great again, he just wants to keep Mr Trump on the telly like everybody else.

Whatever it takes, eh?

i think trump understands people.

and americas decline was due to the collusion between Wall St money, chinese power brokers and the washington elite.

nothing to do with trump and that ship has sailed.

at least trumps lies are out in the open, not a stab in the back like the previous 5 presidents selling the people out to the globalists

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