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Esau hated Jacob. As it was then, so it is now. (Read 1893 times)

Yadda

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Esau hated Jacob. As it was then, so it is now.
Jun 15^th, 2019 at 10:04am

Esau hated Jacob. ....As it was then, so it is now.

'It is written.'

Quote:

....the Bible shows that dominant family traits are passed down to succeeding generations.

Quote:

Genesis 27:39-41

(39) And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above; (40) And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck. (41) And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I slay my brother Jacob.

commentary...
Once Isaac had given his - really God's - blessing, there was nothing left for Esau. The blessing was an "all or nothing" addition to the inheritance; it could not be portioned between Isaac's two sons. In reality, the subsequent "blessing" Esau receives is tantamount to a curse. In the New King James Version, it reads as if Isaac blesses Esau in Genesis 27:39-40, yet it is not a blessing but a prophecy.

As shown here, the two uses of "of" in verse 39 have been mistranslated; in this context, the Hebrew word implies, not "belonging to," but "from" or "away from." On this verse, the Keil and Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament observes, "By a play upon the words Isaac uses the same expression as in v. 28, 'from the fat fields of the earth, and from the dew,' but in the opposite sense, min being partitive [imparting] there, and privative [depriving] here, 'from = away from.'" Thus, Isaac prophesies that Esau's descendants would live in an infertile, arid area.

One consequence of this is prophesied in verse 40: There will be continual strife between the "have," Jacob, and the "have-not," Esau; they would engage in a constant, internecine quarrel over "the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven." More often than not, Jacob would be dominant - until Esau would rebel in frustration and anger. Isaac predicts that they will frequently come to blows, and occasionally, Esau's descendants will enjoy the upper hand for a time.

Esau's utterly human reaction upon hearing Isaac's words is consistent with what we know of his personality: "So Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing with which his father blessed him, and Esau said in his heart, "The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then I will kill my brother Jacob" (Genesis 27:41). Too late, he realized the value of the blessing, and now his entire attention was focused in hatred against his brother. Hebrews 12:15-16 describes his attitude toward Jacob as a "root of bitterness," a profound and deep-set animosity that ultimately corrupts and defiles one who maintains it.

This reveals the mindset of Esau and his descendants, the Edomites. Everything that should have been theirs was now Jacob's, and they will fight until the bitter end of days to get it back! Yet God says it is not to be. His prophecy in the "blessing" allows Esau only occasional supremacy. Since Jacob's seed possessed both the birthright and the blessing, they would normally prevail and ultimately have the ascendancy.

The birthright made Jacob the recipient of a double portion of the inheritance, and the blessing was a gift of God by which the patriarch passed on the promised family blessings. These blessings included the patriarchy - "Be master over your brethren" (Genesis 27:29) - which was now Jacob's! This meant that, upon Isaac's death, the leadership position in Abraham's family passed not to the elder, Esau, but to the younger, Jacob. Esau was left to form his own house, but without the power, position, and wealth inherent within the birthright and the blessing.

In these prophecies, the Bible shows that dominant family traits are passed down to succeeding generations. Therefore, even today, Israelites generally think and behave much like their father Jacob, while Edomites still retain the attitudes and drives of Esau. Though not every Israelite or Edomite will imitate his ancestor's personality to the letter, these traits will surface as national characteristics, allowing perceptive observers to identify their origins and fit them into Bible prophecy.

For Jacob's thefts of the birthright and blessing, Esau hated his brother enough to begin to plot his death! This burning hatred has been passed on from generation to generation ever since that time, for approximately 3,700 years. This, then, provides us with a basic understanding of the contentious relationship between these two peoples.

— Richard T. Ritenbaugh

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Esau hated Jacob. As it was then, so it is now.
Reply #1 - Jun 15^th, 2019 at 10:05am

If we will listen with our heart, and not harden our hearts, against God....

Romans 9:10
And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Hebrews 3:7
Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

Deuteronomy 8:2
And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Raven Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2981 Around	Re: Esau hated Jacob. As it was then, so it is now. Reply #2 - Jun 20^th, 2019 at 1:33pm So you think that Western Civilisation hates Israel because of two brothers had a falling out?
Back to top	Quoth the Raven "Nevermore" Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned. IP Logged

Yadda

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Re: Esau hated Jacob. As it was then, so it is now.
Reply #3 - Jun 25^th, 2019 at 12:45pm

Raven wrote on Jun 20^th, 2019 at 1:33pm:

So you think that Western Civilisation hates Israel because of two brothers had a falling out?

No.

I think many people [living in 'Western' nations] hate Israel and Israelis because they know [everyone knows], that Israel is full of Jewish people.

Israel is a Jewish state.

And i believe that many people [living in 'Western' nations], over many centuries, learned to dislike Jewish people,
because many Jewish people showed themselves to be smarter and more industrious than themselves [the non-Jewish people living in 'Western' nations].

And many people [living in 'Western' nations] resented the idea, the concept, of promotion on merit,
when they [the non-Jewish people living in 'Western' nations] realised, that they did not excel in their own endeavours, as much as Jewish people clearly did - despite the persecution the Jewish people endured, in those 'Western' nations.

IMO, the survival and existence of the Jewish people in the world today, and into this modern age, is part of an argument, for the existence of their God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Though HE punishes them, HE will still ensure their survival.

Among 7 billion Gentiles, 12-18 million Jewish people exist today, worldwide ?

Isaiah 1:9
Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

Psalms 54:4
Behold, God is mine helper: the Lord is with them that uphold my soul.
5 He shall reward evil unto mine enemies: cut them off in thy truth.
6 I will freely sacrifice unto thee: I will praise thy name, O LORD; for it is good.
7 For he hath delivered me out of all trouble: and mine eye hath seen his desire upon mine enemies.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Esau hated Jacob. As it was then, so it is now.
Reply #4 - Jun 25^th, 2019 at 5:05pm

Yadda wrote on Jun 25^th, 2019 at 12:45pm:

IMO, the survival and existence of the Jewish people in the world today, and into this modern age, is part of an argument, for the existence of their God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Though HE punishes them, HE will still ensure their survival.

HIS people......are HIS purpose, are is HIS story.

HIS creation is not completed, yet.

HE has not yet finished HIS house.

Isaiah 51:11
Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.
12 I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass;
13 And forgettest the LORD thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?
14 The captive exile hasteneth that he may be loosed, and that he should not die in the pit, nor that his bread should fail.
15 But I am the LORD thy God, that divided the sea, whose waves roared: The LORD of hosts is his name.
16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1434160480/9#9
Quote:

God foretold [during the time of Moses!], that the nation [the people] of Israel will be found to be, unworthy [i.e. unholy], and that because the nation of Israel abandoned him, God would scatter Israel among the nations...
....
....

And though Israel are punished, for abandoning God, and for braking their covenant with their God...

Israel is not, will not, be cast off, by their God.

Jeremiah 31:37
Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

It was all foretold, that those who are Israel, are forgiven, and would be gathered again to their own land.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Raven

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Re: Esau hated Jacob. As it was then, so it is now.
Reply #5 - Jun 25^th, 2019 at 5:32pm

Yet your thread seems to suggest that because Esau had a falling out with his brother and that "the Bible shows that dominant family traits are passed down to succeeding generations," this has led to "This burning hatred passed on from generation to generation ever since that time, for approximately 3,700 years. This, then, provides us with a basic understanding of the contentious relationship between these two peoples."

As Western Civilisation is the decendant of Esau it seems to suggest that you are implying that it was this falling out that led to Western Civilisation's distrust of Jews.

Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Yadda

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Re: Esau hated Jacob. As it was then, so it is now.
Reply #6 - Jun 26^th, 2019 at 8:26am

Raven wrote on Jun 25^th, 2019 at 5:32pm:

As Western Civilisation is the decendant of Esau it seems to suggest that you are implying that it was this falling out that led to Western Civilisation's distrust of Jews.

Really ?

From the quoted section in the OP....

"....Isaac prophesies that Esau's descendants would live in an infertile, arid area."

The story relating to Esau in the book of Genesis suggests that Esau was a [type of] man who sought immediate gratification,
rather than working in the present, towards a long term success/accomplishment.
e.g.
scripture presents Esau as a man who chose to sell his [precious] birthright, in exchange for one meal.

In todays age Esau may have been an meth/ice addict.

And scripture suggests that, that nature in a man, would not be blessed [by God].
1 Corinthians 6:9,10 Galatians 5:19-21

And so, we see Isaac [God's 'man'] give Esau's blessing, to his brother Jacob.

And that [act by Isaac] angered the [type of] man who wanted immediate gratification and reward,
because he was not 'rewarded' as he believed he 'deserved'.

Genesis 27:34
And when Esau heard the words of his father, he cried with a great and exceeding bitter cry, and said unto his father, Bless me, even me also, O my father.
.....
37 And Isaac answered and said unto Esau, Behold, I have made him thy lord, and all his brethren have I given to him for servants; and with corn and wine have I sustained him: and what shall I do now unto thee, my son?
38 And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one blessing, my father? bless me, even me also, O my father. And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept.

"This reveals the mindset of Esau and his descendants, the Edomites. Everything that should have been theirs was now Jacob's, and they will fight until the bitter end of days to get it back! Yet God says it is not to be. "

Those who see 'Esau' [the type] as a victim, have argued that Jacob [in effect] stole Esau's blessing [and his precious birthright],
but the story in Genesis shows the contrast, between these two type of men, Jacob and Esau.

And God records in scripture, that HE greatly favoured Jacob, over Esau.

HE says, 'Esau' are;
"The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever."
Malachi 1:4

Its just not fair, is it! Huh

Do you hate God [the God that you discover in the bible], because he is not [like] you ?
....many people in this age choose to !

Isaiah 55:8
....my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Raven

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Re: Esau hated Jacob. As it was then, so it is now.
Reply #7 - Jun 26^th, 2019 at 11:01am

The verse in Genesis (25:30) informs us that Esau himself was called Edom

“And Esau said to Jacob: ‘Pour me some of that red stuff because I’m tired’ – therefore he called him Edom”

Later in Genesis (36:9) we are told that Esau was the ‘Father’ of the Nation of Edom

“These are the generations of Esau, the Father of Edom”

According to the Talmud the Romans are viewed as descendants of Esau; when Rebecca was informed that she would have twins, God says to her:

“There are two nations in your womb”

The Midrash on this verse plays with the Hebrew word for nations (based on the strange way the word is written in the Torah Scroll):

“Read this as ‘two aristocrats in your womb’, Adrianus in Rome and Shlomo in Israel, Antoninus in Rome and Rebbi (Rabbi Judah HaNasi) in Israel”

The Talmud shows that historically the Jews took the Roman’s connection to Esau very seriously:
“Once the Romans decreed that no Jew could study Torah, keep the Shabbat or circumcise a child…the Jews organized a demonstration by night and shouted:

BY GOD! ARE WE NOT CHILDREN OF ONE FATHER? ARE WE NOT THE CHILDREN OF ONE MOTHER? WHY ARE WE BEING SINGLED OUT FOR ILL-TREATMENT?
The Romans canceled the decree.” (Rosh Hashana 19a)

Whether or not a particular person or nation is a biological descendant of Esau is obviously impossible to determine and not really important; what is essential to understand is that the World view of Esau has been passed down as a cultural inheritance throughout history from Edom, to the Roman Empire, to the Catholic Church, to Modern Europe and most recently to the United States and its ‘empire’ – in other words, Western Civilization as a whole. This World view has obviously been in a constant state of evolution throughout the generations – America, the land founded on tolerance has been a most fertile land for the Jews – Europe, on the other hand, was a nightmare; this dichotomy in Esau’s personality is brought out by our Sages in these two seemingly contradictory sources; on the one hand the Midrash states:

The name Esau has the same numerical value as Shalom (Peace)” (Kalla Rabati,3)

On the other hand, the Talmud analyses a verse in psalms:
” ‘Do not remove his bit…’(Psalms 140:9) – said Jacob to the Holy One: Master of the Universe – do not allow Esau his hearts desire…this refers to Germany of Edom, for if they were to be allowed loose, they would destroy the world! (Talmud Megilla, 6a-6b).

Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Jasin

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Re: Esau hated Jacob. As it was then, so it is now.
Reply #8 - Jul 11^th, 2019 at 8:07pm

What was Jesus's last words to his Jewish people of whom had had him 'crucified'?

Jesus

"Wait till me little brother Hitler gets yas - ya barstards!" Angry

So Hitler was the Prophet of Jesus the Messiah.

...now we will soon see out of France's flames, the Messiah of Islam from the ashes of a Prophet Mohommed.

Grin

Bite me!!! Grin

AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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