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New donation page Folau (Read 39353 times)
Fuzzball
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Re: New donation page Folau
Reply #45 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 3:55pm
 
cods wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 8:28am:
WHAT?   you mean I cannot criticise


Yes you can, but so can everybody else without you yapping on about 'Karma' etc because you don't agree......

And if you think that idiot Mothball won't jump on you in the future you're wrong.....she's just following Pessary, Arsie etc........

Freedom of Religion
Freedom of Speech

He has every right to voice his religious beliefs, without losing his career for doing so........
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Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting,
"Holy Sh!t ... What a Ride!"
 
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Captain Caveman
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Re: New donation page Folau
Reply #46 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 4:12pm
 
Wow.
People are scared. Investigations are starting. 😱

Amazing what money does....and gets done. Truly amazing.
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Re: New donation page Folau
Reply #47 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 4:24pm
 
Quote:
He has every right to voice his religious beliefs,


Yep.

Quote:
without losing his career for doing so........


Self evidently...incorrect.
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freediver
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Re: New donation page Folau
Reply #48 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 9:04pm
 
I just put this on the site home page:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/index.html

Homofascism
June 26 2019

Homofascism: the belief that, in the interests of inclusiveness, people should lose their job for having an unpopular religious belief.

Support among the Australian public for Rugby Australia firing Israel Folau appears to be ultimately based on the view that his comments were 'not inclusive'. Rugby Australia cited a violation of it's inclusiveness policy in justifying excluding him from the game. The hypocrisy of supporting real harm (losing a job) in exchange for harm that cannot be demonstrated (statements about the afterlife) seems lost to such people. Alternatively, many people offer a technical, contractual justification. Ignoring that the contractual justification rests on an inclusiveness policy, this also fails the reciprocity test. If the situation were reversed and the majority of the population were reactionary, conservative and religious, would those who now support Folau losing his job on technical grounds also support someone losing their job for raising the ire of the majority by saying that gays don't go to hell? Probably not.

As well as the ethical hypocrisy, Israel Folau's firing raises many problems with freedom of speech and workplace discrimination. We could all face the situation of our employer demanding that we are, or must become, a full-time ambassador for the company we work for. They could then make all sorts of absurd demands, for example that we refrain from sharing our religious, political, sexual or other views with our friends, outside of work hours. In Israel's case this is compounded by the abuse of monopoly power. Folau cannot simply get another rugby union job without leaving the country. Rugby Australia has a monopoly on employment in Australia and is abusing that power to impose its preferred social and political points of view.

Israel Folau set up a gofundme account to raise funds for a legal challenge. This raised further controversy, mostly based on accusations of greed (because Israel could have sold off half his assets to pay the legal fees). The account was suspended by the gofundme website. Ironically, they cited their discrimination policy as justification. All donations were refunded. While gofundme will not support freedom of speech, they will raise funds for a kid who physically assaulted a senator (to be fair, the senator also had unpopular opinions, so at least they are consistent in that regard). The Australian Christian Lobby donated $100,000 and set up an alternative donation page, which raised over $1 million on the first day. This was a dramatic increase in the rate of donations via the gofundme website, and indicates that increased efforts to discriminate in the workplace on the basis of religion are generating significant pushback from members of the public who are religious or who value freedom of religion, freedom of speech or freedom of conscience.

Discuss (and where to donate)

Alan Joyce, CEO of Qantas, has been accused of pulling strings behind the scenes to get Folau fired. He recently denied the claims (after the public backlash), at the same time as publicly supporting Folau's firing on behalf of Qantas. Here is a previous article about a scam that Qantas appears to still be running in collaboration with its partner airlines. The scam works like this: Qantas staff reassure a passenger that certain baggage fees will not be charged. Partner airlines hold the customer to ransom at check-in and demand the fee on behalf of Qantas. They instruct the passenger to approach Qantas for a refund. Both airlines then deny responsibility for the mistake and no refund is issued. Thanks Alan for joining the morality police, but can you please stop defrauding your customers?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/qantas-american-airlines-last-minute-surprise-...
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« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2019 at 9:16am by freediver »  

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Re: New donation page Folau
Reply #49 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 9:22pm
 
Typical FD misrepresentation of the facts.

(Put that on the site home page...and expect no more from me on it.)
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freediver
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Re: New donation page Folau
Reply #50 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 9:26pm
 
The home page is not for your wunaway efforts Aussie. Try putting it into a sentence.
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Re: New donation page Folau
Reply #51 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 9:45pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 9:26pm:
The home page is not for your wunaway efforts Aussie. Try putting it into a sentence.


Okay.

That crap is typical of FD misrepresentation of the facts.

So....bung that up FD.
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freediver
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Re: New donation page Folau
Reply #52 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 10:32pm
 
What facts am I misrepresenting?
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Re: New donation page Folau
Reply #53 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 9:16am
 
freediver wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 9:04pm:
I just put this on the site home page:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/index.html

Homofascism
June 26 2019

Homofascism:
the belief that, in the interests of inclusiveness, people should lose their job for having an unpopular religious belief.

Support among the Australian public for Rugby Australia firing Israel Folau appears to be ultimately based on the view that his comments were 'not inclusive'.
Rugby Australia cited a violation of it's inclusiveness policy in justifying excluding him from the game. The hypocrisy of supporting real harm (losing a job) in exchange for harm that cannot be demonstrated (statements about the afterlife) seems lost to such people. Alternatively, many people offer a technical, contractual justification.
Ignoring that the contractual justification rests on an inclusiveness policy, this also fails the reciprocity test. If the situation were reversed and the majority of the population were reactionary, conservative and religious, would those who now support Folau losing his job on technical grounds also support someone losing their job for raising the ire of the majority by saying that gays don't go to hell? Probably not.

As well as
the ethical hypocrisy,
Israel Folau's firing raises many problems with freedom of speech and workplace discrimination. We could all face the situation of our employer demanding that we are, or must become, a full-time ambassador for the company we work for. They could then make all sorts of absurd demands, for example that we refrain from sharing our religious, political, sexual or other views with our friends, outside of work hours. In Israel's case this is compounded by the abuse of monopoly power. Folau cannot simply get another rugby union job without leaving the country.
Rugby Australia has a monopoly on employment in Australia and is abusing that power to impose its preferred social and political points of view.


Israel Folau set up a gofundme account to raise funds for a legal challenge. This raised further controversy, mostly based on accusations of greed (because Israel could have sold off half his assets to pay the legal fees). The account was suspended by the gofundme website. Ironically, they cited their discrimination policy as justification. All donations were refunded. While gofundme will not support freedom of speech, they will raise funds for a kid who physically assaulted a senator (to be fair, the senator also had unpopular opinions, so at least they are consistent in that regard). The Australian Christian Lobby donated $100,000 and set up an alternative donation page, which raised over $1 million on the first day. This was a dramatic increase in the rate of donations via the gofundme website, and indicates that increased efforts to discriminate in the workplace on the basis of religion are generating significant pushback from members of the public who are religious or who value freedom of religion, freedom of speech or freedom of conscience.

Discuss (and where to donate)


Misleading bits highlighted.

Absurd bits in
red.

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freediver
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Re: New donation page Folau
Reply #54 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 9:17am
 
So it is your opinion I am misrepresenting, not the facts?
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Re: New donation page Folau
Reply #55 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 9:22am
 
freediver wrote on Jun 27th, 2019 at 9:17am:
So it is your opinion I am misrepresenting, not the facts?


Nope.  You are misrepresenting - gilding the Lilly so to speak - in the highlighted bits.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: New donation page Folau
Reply #56 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 9:34am
 
Fuzzball wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 3:55pm:
cods wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 8:28am:
WHAT?   you mean I cannot criticise


Yes you can, but so can everybody else without you yapping on about 'Karma' etc because you don't agree......

And if you think that idiot Mothball won't jump on you in the future you're wrong.....she's just following Pessary, Arsie etc........

Freedom of Religion
Freedom of Speech

He has every right to voice his religious beliefs, without losing his career for doing so........


He breached Rugby AU's Code of Conduct.

End of.
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Mr Hammer
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Re: New donation page Folau
Reply #57 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 11:10am
 
Let's see what the judge says, shall we?
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greggerypeccary
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Re: New donation page Folau
Reply #58 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 11:12am
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 27th, 2019 at 11:10am:
Let's see what the judge says, shall we?


Commissioner.

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greggerypeccary
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Re: New donation page Folau
Reply #59 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 11:27am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27th, 2019 at 11:12am:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 27th, 2019 at 11:10am:
Let's see what the judge says, shall we?


Commissioner.



Well, Conciliator first (they don't make decisions, though).  Then a FWC Commissioner.

I would hope that he doesn't waste everyone's time and take it to the Federal Court.

However, he seems to be a massive attention whore, and the happy clappers are donating plenty of money to him, so maybe he will.

I suppose he needs to fill in the time between handing in his forms at Centrelink.

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