Australian Politics Forum - freedom from religion

freediver

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Re: freedom from religion
Reply #150 - Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:05pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 8:59pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 8:51pm:

There you go John and Aussie. Are you going to tell me that this is not Raven saying people have a right to freedom from religion?

no, what I am telling you is that it isn't coming from
Raven
Captain Nemo
Cods
Pecca
John Smith

Now, why do you feel you have to lie all the time FD?

I was quoting Raven.

Quote:

He was fired because he breached his code of conduct.

And you lie when you suggest it was not about his religious views. You are spinelessly apologising for homofascism, trying to reduce what happened to a technicality.

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Raven

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Re: freedom from religion
Reply #151 - Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:11pm

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 8:51pm:

Quote:

So....it seems that your definition of a homofascist is...that people should be free from the burden of hearing opinions they disagree with.

I am certain I have never said that, and I am not aware of anyone else who said that.

Have you read the OP?

Quote:

None of which has SFA to do with Folau.

He was fired for his religious views. You are lying when you suggest having it written in a contract changes this.

Quote:

and you have been told several times that your claim is a load of bollocks.

Sure. Like you. Just before you proved me right.

Quote:

Falou's post is an attempt to subjugate people he disapproves of.

Utter crap. This is how the homofascists work - by turning freedom on its head. So suddenly Folau voicing his own opinion is subjugating others.

Raven wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 8:44pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2019 at 7:13pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2019 at 5:32pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2019 at 2:16am:

Raven wrote on Jun 27^th, 2019 at 10:11pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 27^th, 2019 at 9:28pm:

Raven wrote on Jun 27^th, 2019 at 9:25pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 27^th, 2019 at 9:06pm:

Quote:

Should Folau's right to freedom of religion trump others right to freedom from religion?

Of course. What imbecile would suggest otherwise?

So you think a person who is religious should have more rights then a person who is not?

No. I assumed when you said freedom from religion you meant something idiotic like freedom from other people's opinions.

Well we all know what assumption is the mother of.

Falou has the right to his religious beliefs. By the same token other people have the right to not be subjected (Amend 2 July 2019, Raven made a spelling error, he meant subjugated) to those beliefs.

You seem to be agreeing and disagreeing at the same time. So which is it? Did you mean something idiotic like freedom from the terrible burden of other people expressing a different opinion to you?

Bump for Raven.

Raven?

No

People are free to express their opinions and beliefs, they can believe in an invisible pink unicorn that wears special shoes.

But the minute they tell other people that they have to wear a specific shoe. Then we have a problem.

Subjugated: verb

To bring under domination, control, or influence.

Falou's post is an attempt to subjugate people he disapproves of.

People have a right to freedom from religion.

There you go John and Aussie. Are you going to tell me that this is not Raven saying people have a right to freedom from religion?

You've edited this post, you've deleted a response to Raven. Why?

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38864 Gender:	Re: freedom from religion Reply #152 - Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:11pm Quote: You are spinelessly apologising for homofascism, trying to reduce what happened to a technicality. What 'technicality' is that, Effendi?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49476 At my desk.	Re: freedom from religion Reply #153 - Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:17pm Quote: You've edited this post, you've deleted a response to Raven. Why? No idea what you are on about. Quote: What 'technicality' is that, Effendi? When you lie by insisting that the breach of contract claim means it was nothing to do with his religion.
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John Smith

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Re: freedom from religion
Reply #154 - Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:18pm

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 8:59pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 8:51pm:

There you go John and Aussie. Are you going to tell me that this is not Raven saying people have a right to freedom from religion?

no, what I am telling you is that it isn't coming from
Raven
Captain Nemo
Cods
Pecca
John Smith

Now, why do you feel you have to lie all the time FD?

I was quoting Raven.

Quote:

He was fired because he breached his code of conduct.

And you lie when you suggest it was not about his religious views. You are spinelessly apologising for homofascism, trying to reduce what happened to a technicality.

Yes, and you also attributed his comment to nemo, cods, myself and pecca when you clearly knew it was wrong.

So I ask again, why do you feel the need to lie all the time

And it is you lying every time you claim he was sacked for his religious views. His views were known long before he signed a $4m contract last December. If they were going to sack him for his views they would have simply not offered the contract in the first place.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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freediver

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Re: freedom from religion
Reply #155 - Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:19pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:18pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 8:59pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 8:51pm:

There you go John and Aussie. Are you going to tell me that this is not Raven saying people have a right to freedom from religion?

no, what I am telling you is that it isn't coming from
Raven
Captain Nemo
Cods
Pecca
John Smith

Now, why do you feel you have to lie all the time FD?

I was quoting Raven.

Quote:

He was fired because he breached his code of conduct.

And you lie when you suggest it was not about his religious views. You are spinelessly apologising for homofascism, trying to reduce what happened to a technicality.

Yes, and you also attributed his comment to nemo, cods, myself and pecca when you clearly knew it was wrong.

So I ask again, why do you feel the need to lie all the time

And it is you lying every time you claim he was sacked for his religious views. His views were known long before he signed a $4m contract last December. If they were going to sack him for his views they would have simply not offered the contract in the first place.

I have also provided quotes from them. Have you read the OP yet?

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John Smith

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Re: freedom from religion
Reply #156 - Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:24pm

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:19pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:18pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 8:59pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 8:51pm:

There you go John and Aussie. Are you going to tell me that this is not Raven saying people have a right to freedom from religion?

no, what I am telling you is that it isn't coming from
Raven
Captain Nemo
Cods
Pecca
John Smith

Now, why do you feel you have to lie all the time FD?

I was quoting Raven.

Quote:

He was fired because he breached his code of conduct.

And you lie when you suggest it was not about his religious views. You are spinelessly apologising for homofascism, trying to reduce what happened to a technicality.

Yes, and you also attributed his comment to nemo, cods, myself and pecca when you clearly knew it was wrong.

So I ask again, why do you feel the need to lie all the time

And it is you lying every time you claim he was sacked for his religious views. His views were known long before he signed a $4m contract last December. If they were going to sack him for his views they would have simply not offered the contract in the first place.

I have also provided quotes from them. Have you read the OP yet?

I covered what you said in the OP with my first comment oin this thread. Here, I'll remind you just this once. After this, if you're still struggling, you'll have to go back and read the thread again.

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2019 at 11:28am:

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2019 at 9:19am:

They are effectively trying to redefine freedom of speech as freedom from having to hear opinions you don't like.

no they're not. Here you go again, pretending they said something they didn't.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49476 At my desk.	Re: freedom from religion Reply #157 - Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:28pm Quote: I covered what you said in the OP with my first comment oin this thread. Yes, I thought it was funny when you followed that up by jumping on the "freedom from religion" bandwagon.
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Raven

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Re: freedom from religion
Reply #158 - Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:29pm

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 8:59pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 8:51pm:

There you go John and Aussie. Are you going to tell me that this is not Raven saying people have a right to freedom from religion?

no, what I am telling you is that it isn't coming from
Raven
Captain Nemo
Cods
Pecca
John Smith

Now, why do you feel you have to lie all the time FD?

I was quoting Raven.

Quote:

He was fired because he breached his code of conduct.

And you lie when you suggest it was not about his religious views. You are spinelessly apologising for homofascism, trying to reduce what happened to a technicality.

Say you owned a business and you had an employee who continually insulted your customers and you said to that employee "Ok I get it, you have an issue with some of of the customers who frequent this business. But would you mind not insulting them."

Your employee ignores you and continues to insult some of your customers. It brings your business into disrepute.

Did you fire them because of their beliefs or because of how it could effect your business?

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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freediver

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Re: freedom from religion
Reply #159 - Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:32pm

Quote:

Say you owned a business and you had an employee who continually insulted your customers

Folau was not at work. He was posting his own religious views on his own facebook feed. The only people who read it were people wanted to read it or who wanted to be offended - or at least, claim offence on someone else's behalf. If my employee did that I would respond the same way I think the homofascists should - by getting over it, without a second thought.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Raven

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Re: freedom from religion
Reply #160 - Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:44pm

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:32pm:

Quote:

Say you owned a business and you had an employee who continually insulted your customers

Folau was not at work. He was posting his own religious views on his own facebook feed. The only people who read it were people wanted to read it or who wanted to be offended - or at least, claim offence on someone else's behalf. If my employee did that I would respond the same way I think the homofascists should - by getting over it, without a second thought.

Oh so just because it was on a public page, and people could see who that employee worked for, it wouldn't affect your decision? Bare in mind you've given your employee multiple warnings. At what point do you pull the trigger?

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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freediver

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Re: freedom from religion
Reply #161 - Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:51pm

Everyone knows who Folau works for.

Employers are specifically forbidden from firing people because of their religion.

Quote:

Bare in mind you've given your employee multiple warnings. At what point do you pull the trigger?

Only a moron (= Alan Joyce, RA bosses, etc) would warn an employee not to express their religious views on facebook then follow through with it. If I had given them multiple warnings, I would apologise for the lapse in judgement. On the other hand, if he was insulting customers on the job, I would just get rid of him.

Do let me know when you figure out what you are trying to ask me.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: freedom from religion
Reply #162 - Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 11:52pm

Raven wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:29pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 9:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 8:59pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 8:51pm:

There you go John and Aussie. Are you going to tell me that this is not Raven saying people have a right to freedom from religion?

no, what I am telling you is that it isn't coming from
Raven
Captain Nemo
Cods
Pecca
John Smith

Now, why do you feel you have to lie all the time FD?

I was quoting Raven.

Quote:

He was fired because he breached his code of conduct.

And you lie when you suggest it was not about his religious views. You are spinelessly apologising for homofascism, trying to reduce what happened to a technicality.

Say you owned a business and you had an employee who continually insulted your customers and you said to that employee "Ok I get it, you have an issue with some of of the customers who frequent this business. But would you mind not insulting them."

Your employee ignores you and continues to insult some of your customers. It brings your business into disrepute.

Did you fire them because of their beliefs or because of how it could effect your business?

So poofs are going to refuse to fly QANTAS (gotta fly QANTAS - never a fatal air crash... QANTAS...QANTAS... American Airlines Flight 191 crashed at O'Hare, May 25, 1979..... lotta people killed.. aaarrh.. aaarh....aaaarh)
because someone says poofs will go to hell?

I doubt it...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Raven

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Re: freedom from religion
Reply #163 - Jul 3^rd, 2019 at 11:48pm

At the end of the day, society in it's wisdom has realised we have to place certain limits on our freedoms.

That includes freedom of religion.

In 1966 the UN recognised that in accordance with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the ideal of free human beings enjoying civil and political freedom and freedom from fear and want can only be achieved if conditions are created whereby everyone may enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic, social and cultural rights.

As such in 1976 the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights came into effect.

Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights originally read

Quote:

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

However after 1976, article 18 refers to religion as simultaneously an individual right, and a collective right. It has both an ‘internal’ dimension (the freedom to adopt or hold a belief), and an ‘external’ dimension (the freedom to manifest that belief in worship, observance, practice or teaching). While the internal dimension is absolute, the external dimension can be subject to certain limitations.

Further article 18.3 states that, freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs may be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary to protect public safety, order, health, or morals or the fundamental rights and freedoms of others.

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: freedom from religion
Reply #164 - Jul 4^th, 2019 at 12:20am

Raven wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2019 at 11:48pm:

Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights originally read

Quote:

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

However after 1976, article 18 refers to religion as simultaneously an individual right, and a collective right. It has both an ‘internal’ dimension (the freedom to adopt or hold a belief), and an ‘external’ dimension (the freedom to manifest that belief in worship, observance, practice or teaching). While the internal dimension is absolute, the external dimension can be subject to certain limitations.

Further article 18.3 states that, freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs may be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary to protect public safety, order, health, or morals or the fundamental rights and freedoms of others.

Where is this so called 18.3?

https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

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