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Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises (Read 1645 times)
greggerypeccary
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #15 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 7:52pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 7:39pm:
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 7:15pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 6:57pm:
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 6:50pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:39am:
Mum has a carer for 1 hour each morning and they are all telling me their hours are cut to base and they can't cover their bills

Spot
You need to tell them that a minimum 3 hour shift is the legal requirement.


In most cases, you're right.

Unfortunately though, under the Modern Aged Care Award 2010, the minimum engagement for a casual homecare employee is just one hour.

Sucks, but it's true.

actually, we are both wrong. I just looked it up,
b) Permanent part-time and casual employees will receive a minimum payment of two hours for each engagement.


Not quite.

The key is "homecare"

"(b)              Permanent part-time and casual employees, other than homecare employees, will receive a minimum payment of two hours for each engagement.

"(c)              Permanent part-time homecare employees and casual homecare employees will receive a minimum payment of one hour for each engagement."


http://awardviewer.fwo.gov.au/award/version/MA000018?vn=9&rvn=9#_Toc225328676

Clause 22.7


My apologies.  You're right.

There was an amendment in 2011.

The minimum *engagement is now 2 hours for part-time and casual employees - the 'homecare' part was deleted.

*Just to be pedantic though, which is unusual for me, it's a minimum payment.

That is, the employee might only be required to do 30 minutes work, but they still need to be paid for two hours.

"Permanent part-time and casual employees will receive a minimum payment of two hours for each engagement."

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rhino
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #16 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:15pm
 
Regardless, either the 1 hour shift is another of Spots exaggerations or the employees concerned are being ripped off.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #17 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:25pm
 
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:15pm:
Regardless, either the 1 hour shift is another of Spots exaggerations or the employees concerned are being ripped off.


My guess is that they do one hour at Spot's mum's place, then one hour somewhere else.

The engagement doesn't have to be at the same location.

These carers quite often visit 3 or 4 different clients in the course of a day.

Sometimes more.
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rhino
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #18 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:04pm
 
Thats not mine or others interpretation of the award. They would have to be getting paid for travel if that was the case.
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rhino
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #19 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:07pm
 
Also if that was the case there would have been no need to modify that particular award provision in 2011 from 1 hour to 2 hours.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #20 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:08pm
 
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:04pm:
Thats not mine or others interpretation of the award. They would have to be getting paid for travel if that was the case.


Show me where it says in the Award that they must complete 2 hours (or a shift) at one location.

In fact, show me where it says that they must complete 2 hours of work.

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Setanta
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #21 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:17pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:08pm:
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:04pm:
Thats not mine or others interpretation of the award. They would have to be getting paid for travel if that was the case.


Show me where it says in the Award that they must complete 2 hours (or a shift) at one location.

In fact, show me where it says that they must complete 2 hours of work.



Are you suggesting an employer would not want his pound of flesh and gives people money they have not worked for? In my experience it's the opposite, they want a couple of pounds. Seems a very strange stance for you to take Greg, your pedantry is showing through.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #22 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:20pm
 
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:08pm:
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:04pm:
Thats not mine or others interpretation of the award. They would have to be getting paid for travel if that was the case.


Show me where it says in the Award that they must complete 2 hours (or a shift) at one location.

In fact, show me where it says that they must complete 2 hours of work.



Are you suggesting an employer would not want his pound of flesh and gives people money they have not worked for? In my experience it's the opposite. Seems a very strange stance to take Greg, your pedantry is showing through.


They don't want to pay for work not done, but they have to by law.

And, it happens every single day.

The Awards state minimum payments, not minimum times spent at work.


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Setanta
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #23 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:26pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:20pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:08pm:
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:04pm:
Thats not mine or others interpretation of the award. They would have to be getting paid for travel if that was the case.


Show me where it says in the Award that they must complete 2 hours (or a shift) at one location.

In fact, show me where it says that they must complete 2 hours of work.



Are you suggesting an employer would not want his pound of flesh and gives people money they have not worked for? In my experience it's the opposite. Seems a very strange stance to take Greg, your pedantry is showing through.


They don't want to pay for work not done, but they have to by law.

And, it happens every single day.

The Awards state minimum payments, not minimum times spent at work.



Why would they not just make them work then? That seems to me to be what they would do. You'd be out of a job if bosses were that magnanimous.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #24 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:33pm
 
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:26pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:20pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:08pm:
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:04pm:
Thats not mine or others interpretation of the award. They would have to be getting paid for travel if that was the case.


Show me where it says in the Award that they must complete 2 hours (or a shift) at one location.

In fact, show me where it says that they must complete 2 hours of work.



Are you suggesting an employer would not want his pound of flesh and gives people money they have not worked for? In my experience it's the opposite. Seems a very strange stance to take Greg, your pedantry is showing through.


They don't want to pay for work not done, but they have to by law.

And, it happens every single day.

The Awards state minimum payments, not minimum times spent at work.



Why would they not just make them work then? That seems to me to be what they would do. You'd be out of a job if bosses were that magnanimous.


Wherever they can, they do.

When there is no work to be done, however, they're sent home and paid for the minimum time specified in the Award (or Agreement).

A good example, which happens every single night, is casuals stocking shelves in supermarkets.

If all the pallets are empty, and all the floors are swept, before the end of a casual's minimum 3 hour shift (say, within 90 minutes for example), they're sent home early and paid for the full three hours.

The managers hate doing it, but they want to get home too, so they don't have much choice.
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Setanta
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #25 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:39pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:33pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:26pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:20pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:08pm:
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:04pm:
Thats not mine or others interpretation of the award. They would have to be getting paid for travel if that was the case.


Show me where it says in the Award that they must complete 2 hours (or a shift) at one location.

In fact, show me where it says that they must complete 2 hours of work.



Are you suggesting an employer would not want his pound of flesh and gives people money they have not worked for? In my experience it's the opposite. Seems a very strange stance to take Greg, your pedantry is showing through.


They don't want to pay for work not done, but they have to by law.

And, it happens every single day.

The Awards state minimum payments, not minimum times spent at work.



Why would they not just make them work then? That seems to me to be what they would do. You'd be out of a job if bosses were that magnanimous.


Wherever they can, they do.

When there is no work to be done, however, they're sent home and paid for the minimum time specified in the Award (or Agreement).

A good example, which happens every single night, is casuals stocking shelves in supermarkets.

If all the pallets are empty, and all the floors are swept, before the end of a casual's minimum 3 hour shift (say, within 90 minutes for example), they're sent home early and paid for the full three hours.

The managers hate doing it, but they want to get home too, so they don't have much choice.


I thought were were talking about this...
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:39am:
Mum has a carer for 1 hour each morning and they are all telling me their hours are cut to base and they can't cover their bills

Spot


Why would the boss tell the help to go home for a paid hour instead of staying and working?
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #26 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:45pm
 
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:39pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:33pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:26pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:20pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:08pm:
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:04pm:
Thats not mine or others interpretation of the award. They would have to be getting paid for travel if that was the case.


Show me where it says in the Award that they must complete 2 hours (or a shift) at one location.

In fact, show me where it says that they must complete 2 hours of work.



Are you suggesting an employer would not want his pound of flesh and gives people money they have not worked for? In my experience it's the opposite. Seems a very strange stance to take Greg, your pedantry is showing through.


They don't want to pay for work not done, but they have to by law.

And, it happens every single day.

The Awards state minimum payments, not minimum times spent at work.



Why would they not just make them work then? That seems to me to be what they would do. You'd be out of a job if bosses were that magnanimous.


Wherever they can, they do.

When there is no work to be done, however, they're sent home and paid for the minimum time specified in the Award (or Agreement).

A good example, which happens every single night, is casuals stocking shelves in supermarkets.

If all the pallets are empty, and all the floors are swept, before the end of a casual's minimum 3 hour shift (say, within 90 minutes for example), they're sent home early and paid for the full three hours.

The managers hate doing it, but they want to get home too, so they don't have much choice.


I thought were were talking about this...
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:39am:
Mum has a carer for 1 hour each morning and they are all telling me their hours are cut to base and they can't cover their bills

Spot


Why would the boss tell the help to go home for a paid hour instead of staying and working?


It's up to the client, not the boss.

If the client - Spot's mum - says she doesn't need any more help, the carer leaves her house.

If the carer then calls the office and the office says they have no other clients booked, the carer is sent home.

However, they're paid for the minimum two hours.



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rhino
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #27 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:48pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:20pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:08pm:
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:04pm:
Thats not mine or others interpretation of the award. They would have to be getting paid for travel if that was the case.


Show me where it says in the Award that they must complete 2 hours (or a shift) at one location.

In fact, show me where it says that they must complete 2 hours of work.



Are you suggesting an employer would not want his pound of flesh and gives people money they have not worked for? In my experience it's the opposite. Seems a very strange stance to take Greg, your pedantry is showing through.


They don't want to pay for work not done, but they have to by law.

And, it happens every single day.

The Awards state minimum payments, not minimum times spent at work.


No one is saying it doesnt. Seems you are trying to change tack here because you were wrong about the hours.
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Setanta
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #28 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:49pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:45pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:39pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:33pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:26pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:20pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:08pm:
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:04pm:
Thats not mine or others interpretation of the award. They would have to be getting paid for travel if that was the case.


Show me where it says in the Award that they must complete 2 hours (or a shift) at one location.

In fact, show me where it says that they must complete 2 hours of work.



Are you suggesting an employer would not want his pound of flesh and gives people money they have not worked for? In my experience it's the opposite. Seems a very strange stance to take Greg, your pedantry is showing through.


They don't want to pay for work not done, but they have to by law.

And, it happens every single day.

The Awards state minimum payments, not minimum times spent at work.



Why would they not just make them work then? That seems to me to be what they would do. You'd be out of a job if bosses were that magnanimous.


Wherever they can, they do.

When there is no work to be done, however, they're sent home and paid for the minimum time specified in the Award (or Agreement).

A good example, which happens every single night, is casuals stocking shelves in supermarkets.

If all the pallets are empty, and all the floors are swept, before the end of a casual's minimum 3 hour shift (say, within 90 minutes for example), they're sent home early and paid for the full three hours.

The managers hate doing it, but they want to get home too, so they don't have much choice.


I thought were were talking about this...
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:39am:
Mum has a carer for 1 hour each morning and they are all telling me their hours are cut to base and they can't cover their bills

Spot


Why would the boss tell the help to go home for a paid hour instead of staying and working?


It's up to the client, not the boss.

If the client - Spot's mum - says she doesn't need any more help, the carer leaves her house.

If the carer then calls the office and the office says they have no other clients booked, the carer is sent home.

However, they're paid for the minimum two hours.


Doesn't look like Spot's mum is sending them home but they don't have the time to stay to do any more. Isn't that how you'd read his post?
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #29 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:51pm
 
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:48pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:20pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:08pm:
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:04pm:
Thats not mine or others interpretation of the award. They would have to be getting paid for travel if that was the case.


Show me where it says in the Award that they must complete 2 hours (or a shift) at one location.

In fact, show me where it says that they must complete 2 hours of work.



Are you suggesting an employer would not want his pound of flesh and gives people money they have not worked for? In my experience it's the opposite. Seems a very strange stance to take Greg, your pedantry is showing through.


They don't want to pay for work not done, but they have to by law.

And, it happens every single day.

The Awards state minimum payments, not minimum times spent at work.


No one is saying it doesnt. Seems you are trying to change tack here because you were wrong about the hours.


Nope.

I made a mistake.

I apologised.  You were right.  I was wrong.

I'm just saying that workers are paid for hours not spent at work all the time.

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