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Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises (Read 1655 times)
rhino
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #30 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:52pm
 
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:49pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:45pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:39pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:33pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:26pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:20pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:08pm:
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:04pm:
Thats not mine or others interpretation of the award. They would have to be getting paid for travel if that was the case.


Show me where it says in the Award that they must complete 2 hours (or a shift) at one location.

In fact, show me where it says that they must complete 2 hours of work.



Are you suggesting an employer would not want his pound of flesh and gives people money they have not worked for? In my experience it's the opposite. Seems a very strange stance to take Greg, your pedantry is showing through.


They don't want to pay for work not done, but they have to by law.

And, it happens every single day.

The Awards state minimum payments, not minimum times spent at work.



Why would they not just make them work then? That seems to me to be what they would do. You'd be out of a job if bosses were that magnanimous.


Wherever they can, they do.

When there is no work to be done, however, they're sent home and paid for the minimum time specified in the Award (or Agreement).

A good example, which happens every single night, is casuals stocking shelves in supermarkets.

If all the pallets are empty, and all the floors are swept, before the end of a casual's minimum 3 hour shift (say, within 90 minutes for example), they're sent home early and paid for the full three hours.

The managers hate doing it, but they want to get home too, so they don't have much choice.


I thought were were talking about this...
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:39am:
Mum has a carer for 1 hour each morning and they are all telling me their hours are cut to base and they can't cover their bills

Spot


Why would the boss tell the help to go home for a paid hour instead of staying and working?


It's up to the client, not the boss.

If the client - Spot's mum - says she doesn't need any more help, the carer leaves her house.

If the carer then calls the office and the office says they have no other clients booked, the carer is sent home.

However, they're paid for the minimum two hours.


Doesn't look like Spot's mum is sending them home but they don't have the time to stay to do any more. Isn't that how you'd read his post?
This is the way I am reading it.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #31 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:52pm
 
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:49pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:45pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:39pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:33pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:26pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:20pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:08pm:
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:04pm:
Thats not mine or others interpretation of the award. They would have to be getting paid for travel if that was the case.


Show me where it says in the Award that they must complete 2 hours (or a shift) at one location.

In fact, show me where it says that they must complete 2 hours of work.



Are you suggesting an employer would not want his pound of flesh and gives people money they have not worked for? In my experience it's the opposite. Seems a very strange stance to take Greg, your pedantry is showing through.


They don't want to pay for work not done, but they have to by law.

And, it happens every single day.

The Awards state minimum payments, not minimum times spent at work.



Why would they not just make them work then? That seems to me to be what they would do. You'd be out of a job if bosses were that magnanimous.


Wherever they can, they do.

When there is no work to be done, however, they're sent home and paid for the minimum time specified in the Award (or Agreement).

A good example, which happens every single night, is casuals stocking shelves in supermarkets.

If all the pallets are empty, and all the floors are swept, before the end of a casual's minimum 3 hour shift (say, within 90 minutes for example), they're sent home early and paid for the full three hours.

The managers hate doing it, but they want to get home too, so they don't have much choice.


I thought were were talking about this...
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:39am:
Mum has a carer for 1 hour each morning and they are all telling me their hours are cut to base and they can't cover their bills

Spot


Why would the boss tell the help to go home for a paid hour instead of staying and working?


It's up to the client, not the boss.

If the client - Spot's mum - says she doesn't need any more help, the carer leaves her house.

If the carer then calls the office and the office says they have no other clients booked, the carer is sent home.

However, they're paid for the minimum two hours.


Doesn't look like Spot's mum is sending them home but they don't have the time to stay to do any more. Isn't that how you'd read his post?


One hour at Spot's mum's place, and one hour at Greg's mum's place (instead of two hours at each place).

What's so hard to understand?
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rhino
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #32 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:54pm
 
Plus travel time in between. More than 2 hours whichever way you cut it. Why is that hard to understand?
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #33 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:55pm
 
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:54pm:
Plus travel time in between. More than 2 hours whichever way you cut it. Why is that hard to understand?


One hour at Spot's mum's place, 15 minutes travelling to Greg's mum's house, and then 45 minutes washing Greg's mum's dishes and making her bed.

Are you catching on yet?

There is no requirement - legal or otherwise - to spend a full 60 minutes at any one client's house.
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Setanta
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #34 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:59pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:52pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:49pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:45pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:39pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:33pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:26pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:20pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:08pm:
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:04pm:
Thats not mine or others interpretation of the award. They would have to be getting paid for travel if that was the case.


Show me where it says in the Award that they must complete 2 hours (or a shift) at one location.

In fact, show me where it says that they must complete 2 hours of work.



Are you suggesting an employer would not want his pound of flesh and gives people money they have not worked for? In my experience it's the opposite. Seems a very strange stance to take Greg, your pedantry is showing through.


They don't want to pay for work not done, but they have to by law.

And, it happens every single day.

The Awards state minimum payments, not minimum times spent at work.



Why would they not just make them work then? That seems to me to be what they would do. You'd be out of a job if bosses were that magnanimous.


Wherever they can, they do.

When there is no work to be done, however, they're sent home and paid for the minimum time specified in the Award (or Agreement).

A good example, which happens every single night, is casuals stocking shelves in supermarkets.

If all the pallets are empty, and all the floors are swept, before the end of a casual's minimum 3 hour shift (say, within 90 minutes for example), they're sent home early and paid for the full three hours.

The managers hate doing it, but they want to get home too, so they don't have much choice.


I thought were were talking about this...
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:39am:
Mum has a carer for 1 hour each morning and they are all telling me their hours are cut to base and they can't cover their bills

Spot


Why would the boss tell the help to go home for a paid hour instead of staying and working?


It's up to the client, not the boss.

If the client - Spot's mum - says she doesn't need any more help, the carer leaves her house.

If the carer then calls the office and the office says they have no other clients booked, the carer is sent home.

However, they're paid for the minimum two hours.


Doesn't look like Spot's mum is sending them home but they don't have the time to stay to do any more. Isn't that how you'd read his post?


One hour at Spot's mum's place, and one hour at Greg's mum's place (instead of two hours at each place).

What's so hard to understand?


I can understand that no probs but the carer is not being sent home with pay. That's just not going to happen in that industry. More likely the employer wants two pounds of flesh for the one he is paying for.
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rhino
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #35 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 10:04pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:55pm:


One hour at Spot's mum's place, 15 minutes travelling to Greg's mum's house, and then 45 minutes washing Greg's mum's dishes and making her bed.

Are you catching on yet?


No, you do not understand award conditions very well. You are saying that the carer is working 1 shift but 1 hour in each location. If the carer ceases the shift for the  first client to work for the other then that becomes 2 shifts, 2x 2 hours. If the carer  doesnt cease their shift then of course the carer is continuing to get paid whilst travelling to the 2nd client. All the  service providers through the NDIS are aware of this and pay a minimum of 3 hours because it has been challenged through the industrial arbitration system before. You arent very good at your job.

Quote:
There is no requirement - legal or otherwise - to spend a full 60 minutes at any one client's house.
No one said there was.
Strawman arguments wont help you here.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #36 - Aug 3rd, 2019 at 5:39am
 
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:59pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:52pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:49pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:45pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:39pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:33pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:26pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:20pm:
Setanta wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:08pm:
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:04pm:
Thats not mine or others interpretation of the award. They would have to be getting paid for travel if that was the case.


Show me where it says in the Award that they must complete 2 hours (or a shift) at one location.

In fact, show me where it says that they must complete 2 hours of work.



Are you suggesting an employer would not want his pound of flesh and gives people money they have not worked for? In my experience it's the opposite. Seems a very strange stance to take Greg, your pedantry is showing through.


They don't want to pay for work not done, but they have to by law.

And, it happens every single day.

The Awards state minimum payments, not minimum times spent at work.



Why would they not just make them work then? That seems to me to be what they would do. You'd be out of a job if bosses were that magnanimous.


Wherever they can, they do.

When there is no work to be done, however, they're sent home and paid for the minimum time specified in the Award (or Agreement).

A good example, which happens every single night, is casuals stocking shelves in supermarkets.

If all the pallets are empty, and all the floors are swept, before the end of a casual's minimum 3 hour shift (say, within 90 minutes for example), they're sent home early and paid for the full three hours.

The managers hate doing it, but they want to get home too, so they don't have much choice.


I thought were were talking about this...
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 8:39am:
Mum has a carer for 1 hour each morning and they are all telling me their hours are cut to base and they can't cover their bills

Spot


Why would the boss tell the help to go home for a paid hour instead of staying and working?


It's up to the client, not the boss.

If the client - Spot's mum - says she doesn't need any more help, the carer leaves her house.

If the carer then calls the office and the office says they have no other clients booked, the carer is sent home.

However, they're paid for the minimum two hours.


Doesn't look like Spot's mum is sending them home but they don't have the time to stay to do any more. Isn't that how you'd read his post?


One hour at Spot's mum's place, and one hour at Greg's mum's place (instead of two hours at each place).

What's so hard to understand?


I can understand that no probs but the carer is not being sent home with pay. That's just not going to happen in that industry. More likely the employer wants two pounds of flesh for the one he is paying for.


Happens every day, I can assure you.

I have carers for my parents when I'm away, so I know exactly what goes on.

If there is no other client booked, and the carer is finished at my parents' house, they are sent home.

They don't make them go back to the office and clean the toilets or wash the mangers' cars.

Moreover, it happens every single night in shopping centres across the country.

e.g. A store manager is told that a truck is arriving at 10pm with 20 pallets of stock.

The manager arranges for 5 casual workers to do a 3 hour shift.

When the truck arrives, it only has 8 pallets (not an unusual occurrence - mixup at the warehouse, whatever).

The pallets are emptied and the shelves are stacked by 11.30pm.

With no further work for the shelf stackers to do, they are sent home but paid for the minimum period (3 hours).

These are just two examples.

There are many, many more in many other industries.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #37 - Aug 3rd, 2019 at 5:40am
 
rhino wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 10:04pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:55pm:


One hour at Spot's mum's place, 15 minutes travelling to Greg's mum's house, and then 45 minutes washing Greg's mum's dishes and making her bed.

Are you catching on yet?


No, you do not understand award conditions very well. You are saying that the carer is working 1 shift but 1 hour in each location. If the carer ceases the shift for the  first client to work for the other then that becomes 2 shifts, 2x 2 hours.


Incorrect.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Australians Struggling To Get Decent Pay Rises
Reply #38 - Aug 3rd, 2019 at 7:09am
 
There is no 'ceasing of a shift' in moving from one work location to another... how would any self-respecting road gang survive doing patchwork quilts on the roads?
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