Australian Politics Forum - Should we socialise childcare?

Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Should we socialise childcare? Oct 14^th, 2019 at 8:28pm Government rebates to private companies results only in those companies raising prices. Ultimately, the only way to control prices is to nationalise (take over) child care.
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rhino Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17179 Gender:	Re: Should we socialise childcare? Reply #1 - Oct 14^th, 2019 at 8:45pm The only child care which should be subsidised is that by the actual parent(s) of the child. Look after your own kids.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Should we socialise childcare? Reply #2 - Oct 14^th, 2019 at 9:22pm Auggie wrote on Oct 14^th, 2019 at 8:28pm: Government rebates to private companies results only in those companies raising prices. Ultimately, the only way to control prices is to nationalise (take over) child care. So you think government interference in the sector is so bad that there should be more of it?
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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: Should we socialise childcare? Reply #3 - Oct 14^th, 2019 at 9:43pm Absolutely NO. It is the criminal disgrace that is happening with the sick Greenies in the schools where our little kiddies are having their lives ruined by NOT being taught the 3 R's but instead stupid Greeny propaganda rubbish.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Should we socialise childcare?
Reply #4 - Oct 14^th, 2019 at 10:57pm

Abolish this kind of welfare now... too costly and distorts the real social security issues, since it is conveniently included with those... same as PPL is .. these are NOT social security - they are special handouts, and a genuine burden on the economy, unlike social security.

If it means sheilas can't get jobs - tough titties - stay married and let the old man get a job or stay at home while you work.... you cannot 'have it all' ..... soon the cost of homes will fall because the dual income family is no more... and all the social imbalance will begin to rectify itself...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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minarchist

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Re: Should we socialise childcare?
Reply #5 - Oct 15^th, 2019 at 1:44am

No rebates or subsidies to any private company should result in companies competing against one another to offer the best prices, therefore eliminating the need to nationalise anything.

If child care prices have only risen since subsidies have been introduced, the logical thing to do would be to eliminate all subsidies and lower taxes accordingly. Reducing regulations in the sector and making it easier for Au Pairs to be sourced from South East Asia should reduce prices overall.

Meanwhile, reducing or eliminating tax deductions on investment properties, as well as offering tax incentives to individuals who move to areas with a population of less than 200,000 and more than 150 km from Brisbane, Melbourne or Sydney, should stagnate prices in the housing sector. This would reduce the need for some families for both partners to work and thus reduce or eliminate the need for childcare in the first place.

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People accuse Capitalism of being a "dog eat dog" system, yet it was the Communists who ate each other when they were starving!

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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: Should we socialise childcare? Reply #6 - Oct 15^th, 2019 at 11:34am Maybe people should just live within their means ?
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rhino

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Re: Should we socialise childcare?
Reply #7 - Oct 15^th, 2019 at 12:09pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 14^th, 2019 at 10:57pm:

Abolish this kind of welfare now... too costly and distorts the real social security issues, since it is conveniently included with those... same as PPL is .. these are NOT social security - they are special handouts, and a genuine burden on the economy, unlike social security.

If it means sheilas can't get jobs - tough titties - stay married and let the old man get a job or stay at home while you work.... you cannot 'have it all' ..... soon the cost of homes will fall because the dual income family is no more... and all the social imbalance will begin to rectify itself...

Yep. And just maybe we will end up with a generation of kids actually raised by and taught values by their parents.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Should we socialise childcare?
Reply #8 - Oct 15^th, 2019 at 1:00pm

rhino wrote on Oct 14^th, 2019 at 8:45pm:

The only child care which should be subsidised is that by the actual parent(s) of the child. Look after your own kids.

I tend towards the view that genuine cases - single parents - should receive full subsidy. What I don't see is the necessity to provide childcare subsidy for everyone.. well - everyone except the proven well-off.. if you can catch them - apparently many well-off life on nothing but fresh air when it comes to declared income..

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Should we socialise childcare?
Reply #9 - Oct 15^th, 2019 at 1:02pm

minarchist wrote on Oct 15^th, 2019 at 1:44am:

No rebates or subsidies to any private company should result in companies competing against one another to offer the best prices, therefore eliminating the need to nationalise anything.

If child care prices have only risen since subsidies have been introduced, the logical thing to do would be to eliminate all subsidies and lower taxes accordingly. Reducing regulations in the sector and making it easier for Au Pairs to be sourced from South East Asia should reduce prices overall.

Meanwhile, reducing or eliminating tax deductions on investment properties, as well as offering tax incentives to individuals who move to areas with a population of less than 200,000 and more than 150 km from Brisbane, Melbourne or Sydney, should stagnate prices in the housing sector. This would reduce the need for some families for both partners to work and thus reduce or eliminate the need for childcare in the first place.

This below in regard to your amazing belief in pure market forces..... haven't worked yet and never will, and it's all theory ... continue your education...

Oh - so you want those who can afford them to be able to access Au Pairs on the taxpayer dime? Pure market forces my arse.... you mean only for the proletariat .... they can take market forces up the kazoo but the well-off must receive help to get Au Pairs and so forth... Roll Eyes

You're on the autism scale somewhere, aren't you?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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rhino

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Re: Should we socialise childcare?
Reply #10 - Oct 15^th, 2019 at 1:22pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 15^th, 2019 at 1:00pm:

rhino wrote on Oct 14^th, 2019 at 8:45pm:

The only child care which should be subsidised is that by the actual parent(s) of the child. Look after your own kids.

I tend towards the view that genuine cases - single parents - should receive full subsidy. What I don't see is the necessity to provide childcare subsidy for everyone.. well - everyone except the proven well-off.. if you can catch them - apparently many well-off life on nothing but fresh air when it comes to declared income..

I wouldn't be against actually paying one partner a subsidy to stay home and look after their own children, in the long run far fewer social issues. even a tax concession, we need to get away from this current madness of pretending child care centres can raise children, its not working.

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Valkie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16131 Central Coast Gender:	Re: Should we socialise childcare? Reply #11 - Oct 15^th, 2019 at 5:22pm Subsidies really work well in some instances Just look and medical infraudance, they are really well controlled and affordable yes?
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Auggie

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Re: Should we socialise childcare?
Reply #12 - Oct 15^th, 2019 at 5:46pm

freediver wrote on Oct 14^th, 2019 at 9:22pm:

Auggie wrote on Oct 14^th, 2019 at 8:28pm:

Government rebates to private companies results only in those companies raising prices. Ultimately, the only way to control prices is to nationalise (take over) child care.

So you think government interference in the sector is so bad that there should be more of it?

I don't think that tax payers dollars should go toward private companies to provide essential services.

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Auggie

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Re: Should we socialise childcare?
Reply #13 - Oct 15^th, 2019 at 5:49pm

minarchist wrote on Oct 15^th, 2019 at 1:44am:

No rebates or subsidies to any private company should result in companies competing against one another to offer the best prices, therefore eliminating the need to nationalise anything.

If child care prices have only risen since subsidies have been introduced, the logical thing to do would be to eliminate all subsidies and lower taxes accordingly. Reducing regulations in the sector and making it easier for Au Pairs to be sourced from South East Asia should reduce prices overall.

Meanwhile, reducing or eliminating tax deductions on investment properties, as well as offering tax incentives to individuals who move to areas with a population of less than 200,000 and more than 150 km from Brisbane, Melbourne or Sydney, should stagnate prices in the housing sector. This would reduce the need for some families for both partners to work and thus reduce or eliminate the need for childcare in the first place.

I wouldn't want an au pair from SE Asia looking after my kids....

The reason why competition doesn't work in childcare is because it's an essential service. Private providers will increase prices to serve only the well-off and rich, leaving lower income families in the lurch.

The best way to eliminate competition by having the government take it over, thereby controlling prices and running the service with the public interest in mind.

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Auggie

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Re: Should we socialise childcare?
Reply #14 - Oct 15^th, 2019 at 5:51pm

rhino wrote on Oct 15^th, 2019 at 1:22pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 15^th, 2019 at 1:00pm:

rhino wrote on Oct 14^th, 2019 at 8:45pm:

The only child care which should be subsidised is that by the actual parent(s) of the child. Look after your own kids.

I tend towards the view that genuine cases - single parents - should receive full subsidy. What I don't see is the necessity to provide childcare subsidy for everyone.. well - everyone except the proven well-off.. if you can catch them - apparently many well-off life on nothing but fresh air when it comes to declared income..

I wouldn't be against actually paying one partner a subsidy to stay home and look after their own children, in the long run far fewer social issues. even a tax concession, we need to get away from this current madness of pretending child care centres can raise children, its not working.

The issue is that we want to encourage people to work, not to stay home. Such a policy would be skewed heavily against women. The idea of having a strong childcare system is that both parents can work full-time.

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