Australian Politics Forum - Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!

The_Barnacle Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6205 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING! Reply #15 - Dec 24^th, 2019 at 3:08pm lee wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 2:59pm: The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 2:53pm: You deniers seem to have a blind spot when it comes to the carbon cycle No petal. Natural emissions are not anthropogenic. I never said they were
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Ajax

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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #16 - Dec 24^th, 2019 at 3:53pm

cods wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 2:53pm:

not sure WE as humans need not to do any more ajax..

we! us humans have got very complacent..take far too much for granted the stuff we throw away these days is causing no end of trouble...[ and we think Nuclear waste is a problem] have you taken a look in the bins your send out once a week to collections....thats just "you" imagine every home office shop restaurant Roll Eyes

its mind boggling.....we take rubbish pick up for granted we dont give it another thought... totally reckless....

this time of the year we kind double up if not treble up on everything....

we can do better and we should be better...

recycling doesnt seem to be the answer part maybe but not all ...

we must do better...why cant our rubbish be turned into fuel for instance..

all we seem to do is make more[i] toys for grown ups that can be thrown away every 6 months.. Sad

Hi Cods

I whole heartedly agree love, lets clean up

1. The plastic island in our ocean
2. Chemical pollution btw CO2 is not pollution
3. Recycling yes we can do it better maybe to the point of no wastage
4. And all other things man litters nature with

But I want you to stop and think for a minute.

Why don't the oligarchy controlled United Nations launch a campaign as big as CO2 for deforestation or plastic in our oceans.

Why are they fixated on creating a CO2 carbon derivatives market, to the point of brain washing children and getting them to strike for their cause.

If they really love the Earth there are worse things than man emitting some extra CO2 into the atmosphere.

Lets clean everything up I'm with you all the way....

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Ajax

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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #17 - Dec 24^th, 2019 at 3:59pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 2:53pm:

Ajax wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 8:49am:

Australia emits 560 million tonnes of CO2 per annum

The bottom line is
Lowest: Our grasslands and forests sequester nearly double what we emit.
Highest: Our grass lands and forests sequester nearly eight times more than we emit.

Faulty logic Ajax

Why haven't you included natural CO₂ emissions in your equation?
Natural emissions roughly equal natural absorption
Human emissions are ADDITIONAL emissions

You deniers seem to have a blind spot when it comes to the carbon cycle

How dare you barny.....?

Don't you know that Cods has reviewed and endorsed my climate change qualifications (see below), say no more.....!

Now about your crazy statement above my goodness man how much do you want to move the goal posts.

Last I locked the natural flux of CO2 that goes up into the atmosphere is

750 Giga tonnes

Compared with mans emissions of

10 Giga tonnes

Not even the IPCC is that ambitious, to sequester the whole Natural flux of CO2 that goes up into the atmosphere every year.

You talk a lot of sh@t barny, we did have 7000ppm of CO2 in out atmosphere before and there wasn't a problem with absorbing it or with a runaway green house effect.

Merry Christmas..... Wink

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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lee Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 18050 Gender:	Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING! Reply #18 - Dec 24^th, 2019 at 4:01pm The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 3:08pm: I never said they were I never said you did. But it is telling that you didn't respond to the rest.
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ChrisP

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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #19 - Dec 24^th, 2019 at 4:40pm

Recycling stuff is fine but most of it goes to landfill anyway.

The World has changed, grocers no longer fill paper bags with whatever you want and you used those paper bags to start the fire in the combustion stove to keep the hot water working.

Do people really want to go back to the Old Days? I doubt it.

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Ajax

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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #20 - Dec 24^th, 2019 at 5:04pm

ChrisP wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 4:40pm:

Recycling stuff is fine but most of it goes to landfill anyway.

The World has changed, grocers no longer fill paper bags with whatever you want and you used those paper bags to start the fire in the combustion stove to keep the hot water working.

Do people really want to go back to the Old Days? I doubt it.

Hi ChrsP

Welcome aboard.

There are many ways to get rid of some of that waste apart from recycling we could use some of it to fire Co-generation plants, fluidized bed boilers that use green energy such as this waste.

Someone with money will invest in recycling and become our next billionaire.

Talking about bags I think we had the wool pulled over ours with these re-usable ones.

From another thread

Quote:

Banning biodegradable bags was good for the environment only to substitute them with reusable bags making the supermarkets that much richer at 15 cents a pop.

People still use reusable bags for rubbish bags.

So being that much thicker they would last how long in the Earth.....???

What a con job that was......!

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1576925203

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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miketrees Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6490 Gender:	Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING! Reply #21 - Dec 24^th, 2019 at 5:47pm Recycling stuff is fine but most of it goes to landfill anyway. Spot on,,, and all the extra trucks on the road, the extra bins all adds to carbon emissions.
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The_Barnacle

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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #22 - Dec 25^th, 2019 at 9:50am

Ajax wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 3:59pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 2:53pm:

Ajax wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 8:49am:

Australia emits 560 million tonnes of CO2 per annum

The bottom line is
Lowest: Our grasslands and forests sequester nearly double what we emit.
Highest: Our grass lands and forests sequester nearly eight times more than we emit.

Faulty logic Ajax

Why haven't you included natural CO₂ emissions in your equation?
Natural emissions roughly equal natural absorption
Human emissions are ADDITIONAL emissions

You deniers seem to have a blind spot when it comes to the carbon cycle

Now about your crazy statement above my goodness man how much do you want to move the goal posts.

Last I locked the natural flux of CO2 that goes up into the atmosphere is

750 Giga tonnes

Compared with mans emissions of

10 Giga tonnes

Not even the IPCC is that ambitious, to sequester the whole Natural flux of CO2 that goes up into the atmosphere every year.

Once again you don't understand the carbon cycle

natural emissions of CO₂ roughly equal natural absorption of CO₂
mans emissions are ADDITIONAL emissions

So why have you only used natural absorption of CO₂in your OP and ignored natural emissions?

You are wrong and your logic is flawed Ajax

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lee Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 18050 Gender:	Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING! Reply #23 - Dec 25^th, 2019 at 12:12pm The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 25^th, 2019 at 9:50am: natural emissions of CO2 roughly equal natural absorption of CO2 mans emissions are ADDITIONAL emissions And Australia is a carbon sink!
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The_Barnacle Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6205 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING! Reply #24 - Dec 25^th, 2019 at 12:12pm lee wrote on Dec 25^th, 2019 at 12:12pm: The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 25^th, 2019 at 9:50am: natural emissions of CO2 roughly equal natural absorption of CO2 mans emissions are ADDITIONAL emissions And Australia is a carbon sink! No it isn't
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The_Barnacle

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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #25 - Dec 25^th, 2019 at 12:47pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 25^th, 2019 at 12:21pm:

lee wrote on Dec 25^th, 2019 at 12:18pm:

Remember IBUKI satellite data and Australia is a carbon sink?

Remember how I debunked that as cherry picking data?
You do realize that 2010 was the year the drought broke and the year after the bushfires. All that (temporary) regrowth does wonders.
Now have you got anything for any year other than 2010? Any year at all Wink

I'll just leave this here and check back later to see if lee has managed to come up with anything Wink

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lee

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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #26 - Dec 25^th, 2019 at 1:10pm

Poor petal. I will copy my response on the other thread in General.

lee wrote on Dec 25^th, 2019 at 12:50pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 25^th, 2019 at 12:21pm:

Remember how I debunked that as cherry picking data?

No you didn't petal.

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 25^th, 2019 at 12:21pm:

You do realize that 2010 was the year the drought broke and the year after the bushfires.

"Our results show a strong carbon uptake in Australia from the end of 2010 to mid‐2012. This uptake coincided with record‐breaking rainfall and consequent soil moisture increase that lead to increased growth of vegetation as shown by the increased SIF and the observed peak in biomass burning emissions, as well as the large increased flux uptake shown in the inversion results."

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2015GL065161

Coming into summer. That is later than Spring.

lee wrote on Oct 19^th, 2019 at 1:06pm:

BTW - According to the garudian graphic the 2010 CO2e for the year was ......560.4Mt

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/dec/11/australias-transport-emissio...

How could they get that so egregiously wrong .. the satellite of course it couldn't be the garudian or from where they derived their data. Wink

"Almost 60% of the higher than normal carbon uptake that year, or 840 million tons, happened in Australia."

That year was 2011.

"From October 2010 to March 2011, an extraordinary rainfall event occurred over most of Australia, which resulted in three-quarters of Queensland being declared a flood disaster zone – an area as big as France, Germany and Italy combined."

https://blog.csiro.au/record-rains-made-australia-a-giant-green-global-carbon-si...

yep definitely after Spring. Unless you think sequestration was a 3 month event. Grin

But even if we take 60% of CO2 out of the whole of 2010 (rather than 2011) we would have - 40% of 220Mt or 88Mt sequestered.

Now refute that.

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ChrisP Full Member Offline Posts: 128 Sydney	Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING! Reply #27 - Dec 25^th, 2019 at 1:50pm What's this thing called "sea bins"? Saw something on TV about them collecting rubbish from the sea but it didn't say how they were going to dispose of that rubbish. Most of it didn't look "recyclable" at all.
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Ajax

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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #28 - Dec 26^th, 2019 at 11:06am

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 25^th, 2019 at 9:50am:

Once again you don't understand the carbon cycle

And you do.............???

Quote:

natural emissions of CO₂ roughly equal natural absorption of CO₂
mans emissions are ADDITIONAL emissions

Do you know how much CO2 is stored in our oceans, soils and greenery.....?

Quote:

So why have you only used natural absorption of CO₂in your OP and ignored natural emissions?

When you invest in a tree plantation for the purpose of sequestering CO2 out of the atmosphere for carbon credits are you sequestering manmade CO2 or natural CO2, or just CO2 from the atmosphere.

Which is it barny.......???

Quote:

You are wrong and your logic is flawed Ajax

Nahh you're wrong because as usual you do not know what you are talking about.

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« Last Edit: Dec 26^th, 2019 at 11:18am by Ajax »

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #29 - Dec 26^th, 2019 at 11:38am

Ajax wrote on Dec 24^th, 2019 at 8:49am:

Australia's eco system sequesters more CO2 every year than Australia emits, therefore we are a carbon neutral country, what we emit is taken up by our land and its eco system.

Before we go way off topic I'll ask you again.

In your opening post why have you failed to include natural CO₂ emissions in your calulations?

If you only include natural sequestering and human emissions then you are missing a very important part of the carbon cycle and your conclusion will be wrong

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