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Who Controls Money! (Read 2390 times)
Bias_2012
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Re: Who Controls Money!
Reply #30 - Jan 4th, 2020 at 5:51pm
 
Rider wrote on Jan 4th, 2020 at 3:36pm:
Wow I concur with ky....

Come on, name the financier or its bullschiff.



Why concur with a potential scammer?

No it's not bullschiff, it's fair dinkum, but you'll probably need to be a long term customer, as I am, before you can use that trump card

My interest rate went from 1.3 to 1.6%, just gotta ask
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Rider
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Re: Who Controls Money!
Reply #31 - Jan 4th, 2020 at 7:58pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 4th, 2020 at 5:51pm:
Rider wrote on Jan 4th, 2020 at 3:36pm:
Wow I concur with ky....

Come on, name the financier or its bullschiff.



Why concur with a potential scammer?

No it's not bullschiff, it's fair dinkum, but you'll probably need to be a long term customer, as I am, before you can use that trump card

My interest rate went from 1.3 to 1.6%, just gotta ask


No sweat. Good luck to ya  Smiley
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Who Controls Money!
Reply #32 - Jan 5th, 2020 at 12:39pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 4th, 2020 at 5:51pm:
Rider wrote on Jan 4th, 2020 at 3:36pm:
Wow I concur with ky....

Come on, name the financier or its bullschiff.



Why concur with a potential scammer?

No it's not bullschiff, it's fair dinkum, but you'll probably need to be a long term customer, as I am, before you can use that trump card

My interest rate went from 1.3 to 1.6%, just gotta ask


I'm with St George, dear. You'll need a password to access my account.

If it's that easy to get into your Bias_2012 account, you should ask your bank to improve their security.
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Richdude
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Re: Who Controls Money!
Reply #33 - Jan 6th, 2020 at 1:10am
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 9:06am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 8:39am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 7:51am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 6:52am:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 6:22am:
The central banks have forced themselves into nearly every country in the world..

Those who resisted got invaded..

How does this happen?

It shows you who is "REALLY" running the world..

Trump and his administration know that they have to take down the Central Bank Gangsters and to go back to the gold standard..

The modern day slaves don't wear chains.. they wear debt..

Remember in the 60s and 70s whereby you only needed one person in the household working?

To pay off the house
To bring up a family of 5
To pay for all of your food and education
To pay for your private health cover

Look at today..

If you have't got 2 people working in your household you are living in poverty and can barely raise your children...

but with both mum and dad working these days just to make ends meat who's looking after and bring up your children?

So now from a very young age the STATE is looking after and bring up YOUR children they way THEY want them to be brought up...

and this is why you see a large shift in the curriculum towards social issues, pushing GW, pushing LGBTABCDW... all of the Leftie insanity..  Cheesy

Better wake up people...



Funny how you're not allowed to walk around with cash in this day and age. All designed to keep control over YOU and YOUR (apparently) money. Digital currency....and look at us fight to move the decimal place in our account....well not me but a lot do.


Schools are there to keep people poor and stupid. That's all.




Most people who think that didn't do very well in school.

I remember being taught critical thinking in school, at least thanks to the Maths, Chemistry and Physics classes I took.

I guess those who did PE and Woodwork might have got a different experience (although, I did take "Manual Arts" as woodwork was called too).

And who says you're not allowed to walk around with cash?  I use cash as the primary form of payment...  Most places prefer it.




Classic brainwashed crap.....keep on keeping it on though dude.....someone has to.


I know heaps of people that did well at school. They're still working and paying HUGE taxes.
I know one bloke who dropped out in yr 9....multi squilionare.

So your point is not applicable to these people.


Australia is the lucky country, or was.  You could be a dumb arse and earn huge bank.  That's a lot harder these days.

But it also sounds like you think paying taxes is for chumps?

We live in a society, we have to pay our taxed.  I won't pay any more than I'm meant to, but I'm not going to rort the system either.

That said, I have a good accountant but still operate within the law.


Yes, you've been nicely brainwashed Sad.

Tax is theft.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul (and parasites on the way) is still theft.

During the 2008 financial crises Obama bailed out the banks a total of 10 trillion. Thats 10 million million! Total yearly tax take/theft is roughly 2 trillion. So where did the money come from?

The Fed created the money out of thin air, at the same time creating a 10 trillion extra debt for this and succeeding generations. RORT!

So why do we pay income tax when money can be created out of nothing? Answer - we don't!




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SadKangaroo
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Re: Who Controls Money!
Reply #34 - Jan 6th, 2020 at 9:57am
 
Richdude wrote on Jan 6th, 2020 at 1:10am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 9:06am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 8:39am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 7:51am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 6:52am:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 6:22am:
The central banks have forced themselves into nearly every country in the world..

Those who resisted got invaded..

How does this happen?

It shows you who is "REALLY" running the world..

Trump and his administration know that they have to take down the Central Bank Gangsters and to go back to the gold standard..

The modern day slaves don't wear chains.. they wear debt..

Remember in the 60s and 70s whereby you only needed one person in the household working?

To pay off the house
To bring up a family of 5
To pay for all of your food and education
To pay for your private health cover

Look at today..

If you have't got 2 people working in your household you are living in poverty and can barely raise your children...

but with both mum and dad working these days just to make ends meat who's looking after and bring up your children?

So now from a very young age the STATE is looking after and bring up YOUR children they way THEY want them to be brought up...

and this is why you see a large shift in the curriculum towards social issues, pushing GW, pushing LGBTABCDW... all of the Leftie insanity..  Cheesy

Better wake up people...



Funny how you're not allowed to walk around with cash in this day and age. All designed to keep control over YOU and YOUR (apparently) money. Digital currency....and look at us fight to move the decimal place in our account....well not me but a lot do.


Schools are there to keep people poor and stupid. That's all.




Most people who think that didn't do very well in school.

I remember being taught critical thinking in school, at least thanks to the Maths, Chemistry and Physics classes I took.

I guess those who did PE and Woodwork might have got a different experience (although, I did take "Manual Arts" as woodwork was called too).

And who says you're not allowed to walk around with cash?  I use cash as the primary form of payment...  Most places prefer it.




Classic brainwashed crap.....keep on keeping it on though dude.....someone has to.


I know heaps of people that did well at school. They're still working and paying HUGE taxes.
I know one bloke who dropped out in yr 9....multi squilionare.

So your point is not applicable to these people.


Australia is the lucky country, or was.  You could be a dumb arse and earn huge bank.  That's a lot harder these days.

But it also sounds like you think paying taxes is for chumps?

We live in a society, we have to pay our taxed.  I won't pay any more than I'm meant to, but I'm not going to rort the system either.

That said, I have a good accountant but still operate within the law.


Yes, you've been nicely brainwashed Sad.

Tax is theft.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul (and parasites on the way) is still theft.

During the 2008 financial crises Obama bailed out the banks a total of 10 trillion. Thats 10 million million! Total yearly tax take/theft is roughly 2 trillion. So where did the money come from?

The Fed created the money out of thin air, at the same time creating a 10 trillion extra debt for this and succeeding generations. RORT!

So why do we pay income tax when money can be created out of nothing? Answer - we don't!






Jeez talk about brainwashed...

Next time you need to see a doctor, go to a hospital, use a road or need the help of Police/Fire/Ambulance you can PM me a Thank You for actually paying my taxes.
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Who Controls Money!
Reply #35 - Jan 6th, 2020 at 11:30am
 
Richdude wrote on Jan 6th, 2020 at 1:10am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 9:06am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 8:39am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 7:51am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 6:52am:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 6:22am:
The central banks have forced themselves into nearly every country in the world..

Those who resisted got invaded..

How does this happen?

It shows you who is "REALLY" running the world..

Trump and his administration know that they have to take down the Central Bank Gangsters and to go back to the gold standard..

The modern day slaves don't wear chains.. they wear debt..

Remember in the 60s and 70s whereby you only needed one person in the household working?

To pay off the house
To bring up a family of 5
To pay for all of your food and education
To pay for your private health cover

Look at today..

If you have't got 2 people working in your household you are living in poverty and can barely raise your children...

but with both mum and dad working these days just to make ends meat who's looking after and bring up your children?

So now from a very young age the STATE is looking after and bring up YOUR children they way THEY want them to be brought up...

and this is why you see a large shift in the curriculum towards social issues, pushing GW, pushing LGBTABCDW... all of the Leftie insanity..  Cheesy

Better wake up people...



Funny how you're not allowed to walk around with cash in this day and age. All designed to keep control over YOU and YOUR (apparently) money. Digital currency....and look at us fight to move the decimal place in our account....well not me but a lot do.


Schools are there to keep people poor and stupid. That's all.




Most people who think that didn't do very well in school.

I remember being taught critical thinking in school, at least thanks to the Maths, Chemistry and Physics classes I took.

I guess those who did PE and Woodwork might have got a different experience (although, I did take "Manual Arts" as woodwork was called too).

And who says you're not allowed to walk around with cash?  I use cash as the primary form of payment...  Most places prefer it.




Classic brainwashed crap.....keep on keeping it on though dude.....someone has to.


I know heaps of people that did well at school. They're still working and paying HUGE taxes.
I know one bloke who dropped out in yr 9....multi squilionare.

So your point is not applicable to these people.


Australia is the lucky country, or was.  You could be a dumb arse and earn huge bank.  That's a lot harder these days.

But it also sounds like you think paying taxes is for chumps?

We live in a society, we have to pay our taxed.  I won't pay any more than I'm meant to, but I'm not going to rort the system either.

That said, I have a good accountant but still operate within the law.


Yes, you've been nicely brainwashed Sad.

Tax is theft.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul (and parasites on the way) is still theft.

During the 2008 financial crises Obama bailed out the banks a total of 10 trillion. Thats 10 million million! Total yearly tax take/theft is roughly 2 trillion. So where did the money come from?



That was a government guarantee, dear, not a bailout.

The bailouts were loans.

Quote:
Of these banks, JPMorgan Chase & Co., Morgan Stanley, American Express Co., Goldman Sachs Group Inc., U.S. Bancorp, Capital One Financial Corp., Bank of New York Mellon Corp., State Street Corp., BB&T Corp, Wells Fargo & Co. and Bank of America repaid TARP money.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program
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Richdude
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Re: Who Controls Money!
Reply #36 - Jan 7th, 2020 at 1:00am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 6th, 2020 at 11:30am:
Richdude wrote on Jan 6th, 2020 at 1:10am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 9:06am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 8:39am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 7:51am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 6:52am:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 6:22am:
The central banks have forced themselves into nearly every country in the world..

Those who resisted got invaded..

How does this happen?

It shows you who is "REALLY" running the world..

Trump and his administration know that they have to take down the Central Bank Gangsters and to go back to the gold standard..

The modern day slaves don't wear chains.. they wear debt..

Remember in the 60s and 70s whereby you only needed one person in the household working?

To pay off the house
To bring up a family of 5
To pay for all of your food and education
To pay for your private health cover

Look at today..

If you have't got 2 people working in your household you are living in poverty and can barely raise your children...

but with both mum and dad working these days just to make ends meat who's looking after and bring up your children?

So now from a very young age the STATE is looking after and bring up YOUR children they way THEY want them to be brought up...

and this is why you see a large shift in the curriculum towards social issues, pushing GW, pushing LGBTABCDW... all of the Leftie insanity..  Cheesy

Better wake up people...



Funny how you're not allowed to walk around with cash in this day and age. All designed to keep control over YOU and YOUR (apparently) money. Digital currency....and look at us fight to move the decimal place in our account....well not me but a lot do.


Schools are there to keep people poor and stupid. That's all.




Most people who think that didn't do very well in school.

I remember being taught critical thinking in school, at least thanks to the Maths, Chemistry and Physics classes I took.

I guess those who did PE and Woodwork might have got a different experience (although, I did take "Manual Arts" as woodwork was called too).

And who says you're not allowed to walk around with cash?  I use cash as the primary form of payment...  Most places prefer it.




Classic brainwashed crap.....keep on keeping it on though dude.....someone has to.


I know heaps of people that did well at school. They're still working and paying HUGE taxes.
I know one bloke who dropped out in yr 9....multi squilionare.

So your point is not applicable to these people.


Australia is the lucky country, or was.  You could be a dumb arse and earn huge bank.  That's a lot harder these days.

But it also sounds like you think paying taxes is for chumps?

We live in a society, we have to pay our taxed.  I won't pay any more than I'm meant to, but I'm not going to rort the system either.

That said, I have a good accountant but still operate within the law.


Yes, you've been nicely brainwashed Sad.

Tax is theft.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul (and parasites on the way) is still theft.

During the 2008 financial crises Obama bailed out the banks a total of 10 trillion. Thats 10 million million! Total yearly tax take/theft is roughly 2 trillion. So where did the money come from?



That was a government guarantee, dear, not a bailout.

The bailouts were loans.

Quote:
Of these banks, JPMorgan Chase & Co., Morgan Stanley, American Express Co., Goldman Sachs Group Inc., U.S. Bancorp, Capital One Financial Corp., Bank of New York Mellon Corp., State Street Corp., BB&T Corp, Wells Fargo & Co. and Bank of America repaid TARP money.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program


Not all were loans!

The Federal debt grew by the same amount!

And what I said is true! If money can be created simply by using keystrokes or printing within a fiat monetary system. Why can't gov spending be met using the same method? (Our system fattens the usurer while the public is reduced to being slaves).

Of course it can. If bonds can be created and loaned out so can dollar bills - barring the danger of Wiemar style inflation by irresponsible pollies. You can imagine how dangerous that would be with a Democrat Gov.


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The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.”
 
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Who Controls Money!
Reply #37 - Jan 7th, 2020 at 12:09pm
 
Richdude wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 1:00am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 6th, 2020 at 11:30am:
Richdude wrote on Jan 6th, 2020 at 1:10am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 9:06am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 8:39am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 7:51am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 6:52am:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 3rd, 2020 at 6:22am:
The central banks have forced themselves into nearly every country in the world..

Those who resisted got invaded..

How does this happen?

It shows you who is "REALLY" running the world..

Trump and his administration know that they have to take down the Central Bank Gangsters and to go back to the gold standard..

The modern day slaves don't wear chains.. they wear debt..

Remember in the 60s and 70s whereby you only needed one person in the household working?

To pay off the house
To bring up a family of 5
To pay for all of your food and education
To pay for your private health cover

Look at today..

If you have't got 2 people working in your household you are living in poverty and can barely raise your children...

but with both mum and dad working these days just to make ends meat who's looking after and bring up your children?

So now from a very young age the STATE is looking after and bring up YOUR children they way THEY want them to be brought up...

and this is why you see a large shift in the curriculum towards social issues, pushing GW, pushing LGBTABCDW... all of the Leftie insanity..  Cheesy

Better wake up people...



Funny how you're not allowed to walk around with cash in this day and age. All designed to keep control over YOU and YOUR (apparently) money. Digital currency....and look at us fight to move the decimal place in our account....well not me but a lot do.


Schools are there to keep people poor and stupid. That's all.




Most people who think that didn't do very well in school.

I remember being taught critical thinking in school, at least thanks to the Maths, Chemistry and Physics classes I took.

I guess those who did PE and Woodwork might have got a different experience (although, I did take "Manual Arts" as woodwork was called too).

And who says you're not allowed to walk around with cash?  I use cash as the primary form of payment...  Most places prefer it.




Classic brainwashed crap.....keep on keeping it on though dude.....someone has to.


I know heaps of people that did well at school. They're still working and paying HUGE taxes.
I know one bloke who dropped out in yr 9....multi squilionare.

So your point is not applicable to these people.


Australia is the lucky country, or was.  You could be a dumb arse and earn huge bank.  That's a lot harder these days.

But it also sounds like you think paying taxes is for chumps?

We live in a society, we have to pay our taxed.  I won't pay any more than I'm meant to, but I'm not going to rort the system either.

That said, I have a good accountant but still operate within the law.


Yes, you've been nicely brainwashed Sad.

Tax is theft.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul (and parasites on the way) is still theft.

During the 2008 financial crises Obama bailed out the banks a total of 10 trillion. Thats 10 million million! Total yearly tax take/theft is roughly 2 trillion. So where did the money come from?



That was a government guarantee, dear, not a bailout.

The bailouts were loans.

Quote:
Of these banks, JPMorgan Chase & Co., Morgan Stanley, American Express Co., Goldman Sachs Group Inc., U.S. Bancorp, Capital One Financial Corp., Bank of New York Mellon Corp., State Street Corp., BB&T Corp, Wells Fargo & Co. and Bank of America repaid TARP money.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program


Not all were loans!

The Federal debt grew by the same amount!

And what I said is true! If money can be created simply by using keystrokes or printing within a fiat monetary system. Why can't gov spending be met using the same method? (Our system fattens the usurer while the public is reduced to being slaves).

Of course it can. If bonds can be created and loaned out so can dollar bills - barring the danger of Wiemar style inflation by irresponsible pollies. You can imagine how dangerous that would be with a Democrat Gov.




Bonds are loans too, dear. If a country issued useless bonds, no one would buy them. Indeed, the price of US bonds fluctuates, according to interest rates and government debt.

If the US just printed money to buy more stuff, the dollar would lose value, which would result in inflation.

With reserve banks run independently, governments don't have a lot of say over the value of their currency. The only real way governments can create value out of nothing is to lowering the threshold for banking reserves. I.e, the amount banks must keep on hand before they loan money out.

Ultimately, a currency's value reflects a country's GDP. This is why the US rails against China for "artificially" pegging the Yuan to the US dollar.

The White House, through the US Treasury, has the power to declare a country a "currency manipulator", which it did in August last year. This can influence the value of a currency too.

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Richdude
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Re: Who Controls Money!
Reply #38 - Jan 7th, 2020 at 2:12pm
 
Karnal you just repeated what I said.

And yes bonds are loans and so is the dollar bills in your pocket. All currency is loaned into circulation - IOU's.

This is why we are in a hopeless situation - it's impossible to pay off our debts. Monetary reform is needed.
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The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.”
 
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Who Controls Money!
Reply #39 - Jan 7th, 2020 at 9:49pm
 
Richdude wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 2:12pm:
Karnal you just repeated what I said.

And yes bonds are loans and so is the dollar bills in your pocket. All currency is loaned into circulation - IOU's.

This is why we are in a hopeless situation - it's impossible to pay off our debts. Monetary reform is needed.


Who's debts, Rich?

And what do you mean by monetary reform?

Cheers.
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Re: Who Controls Money!
Reply #40 - Jan 8th, 2020 at 12:25am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 9:49pm:
Richdude wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 2:12pm:
Karnal you just repeated what I said.

And yes bonds are loans and so is the dollar bills in your pocket. All currency is loaned into circulation - IOU's.

This is why we are in a hopeless situation - it's impossible to pay off our debts. Monetary reform is needed.


Who's debts, Rich?

And what do you mean by monetary reform?

Cheers.


Never heard of the Austrian School of Economics? Or Social Credit - CH Douglas? You should study these.

This system benefits a handful of power crazed psychos at the expense of everyone else. Other much better monetary systems are available. You being a card carrying commo should embrace such ideas but of course ..............
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« Last Edit: Jan 8th, 2020 at 3:13am by Richdude »  

The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.”
 
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Who Controls Money!
Reply #41 - Jan 11th, 2020 at 8:49am
 
Richdude wrote on Jan 8th, 2020 at 12:25am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 9:49pm:
Richdude wrote on Jan 7th, 2020 at 2:12pm:
Karnal you just repeated what I said.

And yes bonds are loans and so is the dollar bills in your pocket. All currency is loaned into circulation - IOU's.

This is why we are in a hopeless situation - it's impossible to pay off our debts. Monetary reform is needed.


Who's debts, Rich?

And what do you mean by monetary reform?

Cheers.


Never heard of the Austrian School of Economics? Or Social Credit - CH Douglas? You should study these.

This system benefits a handful of power crazed psychos at the expense of everyone else. Other much better monetary systems are available. You being a card carrying commo should embrace such ideas but of course ..............


Thanks, Rich. No, I had never heard of Douglas. Thanks. Hayek, yes, of course. He was a big influence on Thatcher.

How do these theorists relate to your argument?

Cheers.
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Bias_2012
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Re: Who Controls Money!
Reply #42 - Jan 11th, 2020 at 10:37am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 11th, 2020 at 8:49am:
How do these theorists relate to your argument?



Of course you already know don't you? - A fairer monetary system controlled by the representatives of the people ...... not by the shady representatives of the representatives
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« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2020 at 1:59pm by Bias_2012 »  

Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable
 
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Re: Who Controls Money!
Reply #43 - Jan 11th, 2020 at 1:34pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 11th, 2020 at 10:37am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 11th, 2020 at 8:49am:
How do these theorists relate to your argument?



Of course you already know don't you - A fairer monetary system controlled by the representatives of the people ...... not by the shady representatives of the representatives


How do Hayek and Douglas propose to do that, Bias?
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Re: Who Controls Money!
Reply #44 - Jan 12th, 2020 at 5:37am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 11th, 2020 at 1:34pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 11th, 2020 at 10:37am:
[quote author=Karnal link=1577975891/41#41 date=1578696545]How do these theorists relate to your argument?[/q


Of course you already know don't you - A fairer monetary system controlled by the representatives of the people ...... not by the shady representatives of the representatives


How do Hayek and Douglas propose to do that, Bias?


CH Douglas did indeed propose a fairer system and it has been implemented on a small scale for a short time - it works!

Money can be created in a fiat system as debt or credit. the problem being with the latter are politicians buying votes and resultant runaway inflation. However if money is spent carefully on infrastructure, education, research and building business - the result is no or little inflation. You're building the economy - larger cake........

How do you think Australia built the rail system, roads etc early 20th century? The Commonwealth Bank was a national bank that worked for government. Look up Dennis Miller. He was the head of the bank and boasted that "any scheme or enterprise Australians could envisage he could fund at no cost to the taxpayer".

All money is backed by the "full faith and credit of the Australian people". You're the creditors!  Grin Grin
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