Australian Politics Forum - A river on fire

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 17094
Gender: male

Re: A river on fire - Australia
Reply #15 - Apr 24^th, 2020 at 6:27pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2020 at 5:58pm:

Google it - I'm not going to spoon feed you.

I have. That's where the info comes from.

"What chemicals are used?
Under UK regulations, operators have to submit a list of the chemicals they will use to the Environment Agency, or they will be refused consent. In the UK, one of the most commonly used chemicals is diluted hydrochloric acid. A government expert told the Guardian that in the case of a leak, the risk from the chemicals used is “very low”. In the US, the Environmental Protection Agency found a median of 14 chemicals for each sample it took. The most common were methanol (an alcohol), hydrochloric acid, and hydrotreated light petroleum distillates (a combination of hydrocarbons). "

"The UK government has repeatedly said that fracking can be done safely and without harming the environment or human health, so long as it is properly regulated. New rules mean that companies have to closely monitor and report seismic activity, as well as potential water and air pollution.

But that’s not been the case throughout fracking’s history, particularly during some of the ‘wild west’ years when it grew rapidly in the US.

Water contamination has been one of the biggest environmental concerns and where some of the most egregious incidents have occurred. A years-long piece of research by the US Environmental Protection Agency concluded in 2016 that in some cases fracking had harmed drinking water supplies.

Most of the cases of water pollution in the US have involved boreholes that were not built properly, or mishandling of wastewater. Images of burning taps in the 2010 documentary Gasland arguably turbocharged the anti-fracking movement in the US, even though cases of gas contaminating water supplies have been hard to prove."

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/feb/26/fracking-the-reality-the-risks-and-...

From the garudian - it must be true.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby. Moderator Online Australian Politics Posts: 100826 Melbourne Gender:	Re: A river on fire - Australia Reply #16 - Apr 24^th, 2020 at 6:32pm Thanks lee but fracking causes natural poisons to be released that were formerly locked up in the rock. We could make this thread 500 pages long but I don't think anyone would read it. Fracking is bad - it's that simple.
Back to top	IP Logged

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17094 Gender:	Re: A river on fire - Australia Reply #17 - Apr 24^th, 2020 at 8:54pm Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2020 at 6:32pm: Thanks lee but fracking causes natural poisons to be released that were formerly locked up in the rock. At what level? And the conversation has gone way past a "river on fire".
Back to top	IP Logged

Bobby.

Moderator

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 100826
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: A river on fire - Australia
Reply #18 - Apr 24^th, 2020 at 9:10pm

lee wrote on Apr 24^th, 2020 at 8:54pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2020 at 6:32pm:

Thanks lee but
fracking causes natural poisons to be released that
were formerly locked up in the rock.

At what level?

And the conversation has gone way past a "river on fire".

The ground is full of poisons that are locked up
and stored away.
Fracking releases them.

Back to top

IP Logged

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17094 Gender:	Re: A river on fire - Australia Reply #19 - Apr 24^th, 2020 at 9:26pm Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2020 at 9:10pm: The ground is full of poisons that are locked up and stored away. Fracking releases them. But at what level? Fatal? Injurious? Or undetermined?
Back to top	IP Logged

Bobby.

Moderator

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 100826
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: A river on fire - Australia
Reply #20 - Apr 24^th, 2020 at 9:28pm

lee wrote on Apr 24^th, 2020 at 9:26pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2020 at 9:10pm:

The ground is full of poisons that are locked up
and stored away.
Fracking releases them.

But at what level? Fatal? Injurious? Or undetermined?

I'm not an expert but in the case of that river on fire
there is probably a lot more than methane getting into it.

Back to top

IP Logged

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17094 Gender:	Re: A river on fire - Australia Reply #21 - Apr 24^th, 2020 at 10:01pm Bobby. wrote on Apr 24^th, 2020 at 9:28pm: I'm not an expert but in the case of that river on fire there is probably a lot more than methane getting into it. And yet fish continue to thrive. Although some species have been overfished.
Back to top	IP Logged

Bobby.

Moderator

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 100826
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: A river on fire - Australia
Reply #22 - Apr 24^th, 2020 at 11:40pm

Some chemicals to get Lee started:

https://earthworks.org/issues/hydraulic_fracturing_101/

• 2,2′,2″-Nitrilotriethanol
• 2-Ethylhexanol
• 5-Chloro-2-methyl-4-isothiazolin-3-one
• Acetic acid
• Acrolein
• Acrylamide (2-propenamide)
• Acrylic acid
• Ammhttp://www.ozpolitic.com/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/underline.gifonia
• Ammonium chloride
• Ammonium nitrate
• Aniline
• Benzyl chloride
• Boric acid
• Cadmium
• Calcium hypochlorite
• Chlorine
• Chlorine dioxide
• Dibromoacetonitrile 1
• Diesel 2
• Diethanolamine
• Diethylenetriamine
• Dimethyl formamide
• Epidian
• Ethanol (acetylenic alcohol)
• Ethyl mercaptan
• Ethylbenzene • Ethylene glycol
• Ethylene glycol monobutyl ether (2-BE)
• Ethylene oxide
• Ferrous sulfate
• Formaldehyde
• Formic acid
• Fuel oil #2
• Glutaraldehyde
• Glyoxal
• Hydrodesulfurized kerosene
• Hydrogen sulfide
• Iron
• Isobutyl alcohol (2-methyl-1-propanol)
• Isopropanol (propan-2-ol)
• Kerosene
• Light naphthenic distillates, hydrotreated
• Mercaptoacidic acid
• Methanol
• Methylene bis(thiocyanate)
• Monoethanolamine
• NaHCO3 • Naphtha, petroleum medium aliphatic
• Naphthalene
• Natural gas condensates
• Nickel sulfate
• Paraformaldehyde
• Petroleum distillate naptha
• Petroleum distillate/ naphtha
• Phosphonium, tetrakis(hydroxymethyl)-sulfate
• Propane-1,2-diol
• Sodium bromate
• Sodium chlorite (chlorous acid, sodium salt)
• Sodium hypochlorite
• Sodium nitrate
• Sodium nitrite
• Sodium sulfite
• Styrene
• Sulfur dioxide
• Sulfuric acid
• Tetrahydro-3,5-dimethyl-2H-1,3,5-thiadiazine-2-thione (Dazomet)
• Titanium dioxide
• Tributyl phosphate
• Triethylene glycol
• Urea
• Xylene

Some more:
https://cen.acs.org/articles/94/web/2016/05/Toxic-chemicals-fracking-wastewater-...

North Dakota fracking boom leaves residues of radium, selenium, lead, and other contaminants in the environment

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48814
At my desk.

Re: A river on fire - Australia
Reply #23 - Apr 25^th, 2020 at 9:45am

Bobby. wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2020 at 6:05pm:

A RIVER ON FIRE! Gas explodes from Australian river near fracking site.

766,139 views
•Apr 22, 2016

Jeremy Buckingham
753 subscribers

A RIVER ON FIRE! Gas explodes from Australian river near fracking site. I was shocked by force of the explosion when I tested whether gas boiling through the Condamine River, Qld was flammable. So much gas is bubbling through the river that it held a huge flame.

There has been concern that fracking and extraction of coal seam gas could cause gas to migrate through the rock. Not only is it polluting the river and air, but methane is an extremely potent heat trapping gas. Fugitive emissions from the unconventional gas industry could be a major contributor to climate change and make gas as dirty as burning coal.

Gas first started bubbling though the river shortly after the coal seam gas industry took off in the Chinchilla area. Since then the volume of gas bubbling through the river has massively increased and has spread along the river.

You can see stakes in the river bank were the Queensland Government has marked each gas seep. You can also see pipework near the river where Origin Energy has installed for monitoring the gas bubbling through the river.

https://www.csiro.au/~/media/EF/Files/GISERA_MethaneSeepsCondamineRiver-2017-03.pdf

This fact sheet presents the current state of scientific knowledge on methane seeps in the Condamine River including natural and human causes

Hydraulic fracturing is unlikely to be the cause of bubbling in the Condamine River because to date there has been no hydraulic fracturing by the CSG industry in these production fields.

CSIRO research has found no evidence that these seeps have any adverse environmental impact on the plant or animal life of the river and its surroundings. To date, there is no public health or safety risk caused by the methane concentrations measured in the area of these or any other seeps in the Surat Basin that CSIRO has measured.

The presence of methane in water bores has been documented well before development of the region’s CSG industry as far back as 1919. Since the early 1900s, there has been natural gas in water bores in nearby Roma, which have led to well blowouts and occasionally caught fire. Methane in water bores in the Surat and Bowen basins has also been documented in drilling reports from the 1960s and 1970s.

The bubbling of methane from the Condamine River area has increased three-fold since ongoing measurement began in early 2015, but has declined again recently.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 17094
Gender: male

Re: A river on fire - Australia
Reply #24 - Apr 25^th, 2020 at 1:40pm

From your reference -

"This wastewater, called produced water, may be reused, injected underground for disposal, or processed—though not always successfully—in water treatment plants."

So it is the water produced by the fracking not by the fracking liquid itself. Good to know.

Now knowing that; monitor the output of wastewater and filter accordingly.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby.

Moderator

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 100826
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: A river on fire - Australia
Reply #25 - Apr 25^th, 2020 at 1:48pm

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2020 at 9:45am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2020 at 6:05pm:

A RIVER ON FIRE! Gas explodes from Australian river near fracking site.

766,139 views
•Apr 22, 2016

Jeremy Buckingham
753 subscribers

A RIVER ON FIRE! Gas explodes from Australian river near fracking site. I was shocked by force of the explosion when I tested whether gas boiling through the Condamine River, Qld was flammable. So much gas is bubbling through the river that it held a huge flame.

There has been concern that fracking and extraction of coal seam gas could cause gas to migrate through the rock. Not only is it polluting the river and air, but methane is an extremely potent heat trapping gas. Fugitive emissions from the unconventional gas industry could be a major contributor to climate change and make gas as dirty as burning coal.

Gas first started bubbling though the river shortly after the coal seam gas industry took off in the Chinchilla area. Since then the volume of gas bubbling through the river has massively increased and has spread along the river.

You can see stakes in the river bank were the Queensland Government has marked each gas seep. You can also see pipework near the river where Origin Energy has installed for monitoring the gas bubbling through the river.

https://www.csiro.au/~/media/EF/Files/GISERA_MethaneSeepsCondamineRiver-2017-03.pdf

This fact sheet presents the current state of scientific knowledge on methane seeps in the Condamine River including natural and human causes

Hydraulic fracturing is unlikely to be the cause of bubbling in the Condamine River because to date there has been no hydraulic fracturing by the CSG industry in these production fields.

CSIRO research has found no evidence that these seeps have any adverse environmental impact on the plant or animal life of the river and its surroundings. To date, there is no public health or safety risk caused by the methane concentrations measured in the area of these or any other seeps in the Surat Basin that CSIRO has measured.

The presence of methane in water bores has been documented well before development of the region’s CSG industry as far back as 1919. Since the early 1900s, there has been natural gas in water bores in nearby Roma, which have led to well blowouts and occasionally caught fire. Methane in water bores in the Surat and Bowen basins has also been documented in drilling reports from the 1960s and 1970s.

The bubbling of methane from the Condamine River area has increased three-fold since ongoing measurement began in early 2015, but has declined again recently.

thanks FD,
I did a search on the pdf document.

The CSIRO does not even mention fracking for this particular river yet the video does.

Back to top

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 17094
Gender: male

Re: A river on fire - Australia
Reply #26 - Apr 25^th, 2020 at 3:37pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 25^th, 2020 at 1:48pm:

The CSIRO does not even mention fracking for this particular river yet the video does.

And yet the Conversation says not.

"No CSG production or exploration has occurred within 1.4 km of the Condamine River gas seep. This suggests that CSG is not responsible. "

"In April 2016, we mapped gas leaking from the site of a presumably abandoned leaking coal exploration well just 2.5 km north of the Condamine River gas seep.

We measured maximum methane concentrations of 595 parts per million (ppm) (the lower explosive limit of methane in air is 50,000 ppm). By contrast, the average natural background concentration of methane for the region is 1.79 ppm. The continuously high concentration indicates that there is a direct path between the coal measures and the ground surface."

https://theconversation.com/river-on-fire-even-if-its-not-coal-seam-gas-we-shoul...

No exploration, no fracking, no production.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby.

Moderator

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 100826
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: A river on fire - Australia
Reply #27 - Apr 25^th, 2020 at 3:42pm

lee wrote on Apr 25^th, 2020 at 3:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 25^th, 2020 at 1:48pm:

The CSIRO does not even mention fracking for this particular river yet the video does.

And yet the Conversation says not.

"No CSG production or exploration has occurred within 1.4 km of the Condamine River gas seep. This suggests that CSG is not responsible. "

"In April 2016, we mapped gas leaking from the site of a presumably abandoned leaking coal exploration well just 2.5 km north of the Condamine River gas seep.

We measured maximum methane concentrations of 595 parts per million (ppm) (the lower explosive limit of methane in air is 50,000 ppm). By contrast, the average natural background concentration of methane for the region is 1.79 ppm. The continuously high concentration indicates that there is a direct path between the coal measures and the ground surface."

https://theconversation.com/river-on-fire-even-if-its-not-coal-seam-gas-we-shoul...

No exploration, no fracking, no production.

I wonder if FD would eat the fish from that river?
What chemicals are in it?

Back to top

IP Logged

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17094 Gender:	Re: A river on fire - Australia Reply #28 - Apr 25^th, 2020 at 3:55pm Bobby. wrote on Apr 25^th, 2020 at 3:42pm: What chemicals are in it? Probably only those that nature provided. Nothing from fracking, hasn't happened.
Back to top	IP Logged

Bobby.

Moderator

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 100826
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: A river on fire - Australia
Reply #29 - Apr 25^th, 2020 at 4:10pm

lee wrote on Apr 25^th, 2020 at 3:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 25^th, 2020 at 3:42pm:

What chemicals are in it?

Probably only those that nature provided.

Nothing from fracking, hasn't happened. Wink

Did you know that when a bore water hole is drilled
the water has to be tested for chemicals?
I heard a rumour that half of all Australian water is not fit for drinking due to chemicals in it -
the usual culprit is natural Uranium.

Back to top

IP Logged