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Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans (Read 1648 times)
Robot
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Re: Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans
Reply #15 - May 16th, 2020 at 2:16pm
 
Review:
https://ketanjoshi.co/2020/04/24/planet-of-the-humans-a-reheated-mess-of-lazy-ol...

The film is full of really old information and downright silly falsehoods.

Bobby. wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 9:57am:
Yes - it discussed wind turbines and how so much energy
is used to create them that it's a net loss.


That's one of the silly falsehoods.
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Bobby.
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Re: Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans
Reply #16 - May 16th, 2020 at 2:19pm
 
Robot wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 2:16pm:
Review:
https://ketanjoshi.co/2020/04/24/planet-of-the-humans-a-reheated-mess-of-lazy-ol...

The film is full of really old information and downright silly falsehoods.

Bobby. wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 9:57am:
Yes - it discussed wind turbines and how so much energy
is used to create them that it's a net loss.


That's one of the silly falsehoods.



Are you calling Michael Moore a liar?

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lee
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Re: Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans
Reply #17 - May 16th, 2020 at 2:22pm
 
Robot wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 2:16pm:
That's one of the silly falsehoods.



Perhaps you have an itemised list of costs?

Concrete?
Steel?
Rare earths?
Copper?
Fibreglass/plastics?
Land area?
Capacity factor?
Wind drought?
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miketrees
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Re: Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans
Reply #18 - May 16th, 2020 at 2:41pm
 


The standout point for me was the stupidity of electric cars until they can be charged by nuclear power plants
Wind and solar are never going to work with charging cars at night
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miketrees
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Re: Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans
Reply #19 - May 16th, 2020 at 2:42pm
 
The other huge standout is just how stupid Greenies are.

It was good to see a lot of reformed Greenies on that
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Robot
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Re: Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans
Reply #20 - May 16th, 2020 at 2:46pm
 
Bobby. wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 2:19pm:
Robot wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 2:16pm:
Review:
https://ketanjoshi.co/2020/04/24/planet-of-the-humans-a-reheated-mess-of-lazy-ol...

The film is full of really old information and downright silly falsehoods.

Bobby. wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 9:57am:
Yes - it discussed wind turbines and how so much energy
is used to create them that it's a net loss.


That's one of the silly falsehoods.



Are you calling Michael Moore a liar?



Sure, why not.

The Average EROI for a wind farm is ~20, which means that a wind farm typically generates 20 times as much energy as is used to make it.

https://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/FACULTY/ITO/GG410/Wind/Kubiszewski_EROI_Wind_Ren...
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Robot
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Re: Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans
Reply #21 - May 16th, 2020 at 3:03pm
 
miketrees wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 2:41pm:
Wind and solar are never going to work with charging cars at night


"The wind doesn't blow at night. Checkmate, Greenies."
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lee
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Re: Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans
Reply #22 - May 16th, 2020 at 3:18pm
 
From your reference-

"Does the high EROI for wind power presented here guarantee that wind will assume a major role in the world’s power generation system? There are a number of issues surrounding wind energy that require resolution before that happens. These issues have been discussed in detail elsewhere, and are summarized here:

The dramatic cost reductions in the manufacture of new wind turbines that has characterized the past two decades may be slowing [15] due to a variety of economic, financial, and technical reasons. Recently this is particularly true in light of the rising energy and commodity prices, which are slowly escalating turbine costs. The rising global demand for turbines is also driving prices upward.

The uncontrolled, intermittent nature of wind poses unique challenges to grid management relative to operator-controlled (baseload) resources such as coal, gas, or nuclear generation[16].

Much of the wind resource base is located in remote locations, so costs exist in getting wind-generated electricity from the local point-of-generation to a potentially distant load center.

The remoteness of the wind resource base also generates increased costs of developing land with difficult terrain or that which is increasingly removed from development infrastructure (such as major roads, rivers, or rails capable of trans-
porting the bulky and heavy construction equipment). Little is known about the extent of these costs.

At about 6 or 7 MW per square kilometer of net power potential, wind plants are necessarily spread-out over a significant land area [17]. Thus, wind plants must compete with alternative uses of these land resources. This is especially true
when the land is a significant source of aesthetic and/or recreational value.

Government subsidies have spurred the development of wind energy [18]. But subsidies are always subject to political whims, and thus constitute a significant issue for the wind industry, creating uncertainty for long-term planning and preventing
faster market development.

There is also concern about the impacts of wind energy on birds and bats [19].

Considerable additional research on operational wind facilities is required to provide a comprehensive assessment of the potential magnitude of these risks. None of these challenges are necessarily insurmountable. Indeed, some of them may be relatively modest in cost terms when fully assessed. The point here is simply that an EROI is crucial but is not independently a sufficient condition for the continued wide-spread expansion of wind energy."

So many things not calculated in the EROI due to uncertainties.


"Since mid-October, some 128 people on the island of Oahu have been arrested while protesting a wind energy project being built near the small village of Kahuku. The project is planned to include eight turbines standing 568 feet high. Many of the arrests occurred after protesters blocked trucks carrying equipment to the site. The protests continued on Nov. 1, when about 30 anti-wind protesters occupied the office of Honolulu Mayor Kirk Caldwell for three hours."

"The refusal of all-renewable advocates to consider the cartoonish land requirements of their schemes and how those plans are affecting ordinary people in rural areas is perhaps the single biggest disconnect in the current energy debate. How cartoonish? Last year, two Harvard researchers found that meeting current U.S. electricity needs with wind would require covering a land area twice the size of California with wind turbines. That’s beyond Looney Tunes. "

"Meanwhile, in Germany, according to a recent article by Bloomberg columnist Leonid Bershidsky, wind turbines have become so unpopular that their construction “has all but ground to a halt.” He reports that “people hate the way the wind towers change landscapes. There’s even a German word for it, Verspargelung, roughly translated as pollution with giant asparagus sticks.” "

[url]https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/469870-hawaii-protests-show-why-w
ind-energy-cant-save-us-from-climate
[/url]
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Bobby.
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Re: Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans
Reply #23 - May 16th, 2020 at 3:52pm
 
lee wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 2:22pm:
Robot wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 2:16pm:
That's one of the silly falsehoods.



Perhaps you have an itemised list of costs?

Concrete?
Steel?
Rare earths?
Copper?
Fibreglass/plastics?
Land area?
Capacity factor?
Wind drought?



Michael also talked about the de-commissioning costs
at the end of life for wind turbines and solar cells.
That includes waste disposal.
That's not cheap.
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Bobby.
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Re: Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans
Reply #24 - May 16th, 2020 at 3:55pm
 
Robot wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 2:46pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 2:19pm:
Robot wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 2:16pm:
Review:
https://ketanjoshi.co/2020/04/24/planet-of-the-humans-a-reheated-mess-of-lazy-ol...

The film is full of really old information and downright silly falsehoods.

Bobby. wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 9:57am:
Yes - it discussed wind turbines and how so much energy
is used to create them that it's a net loss.


That's one of the silly falsehoods.



Are you calling Michael Moore a liar?



Sure, why not.

The Average EROI for a wind farm is ~20, which means that a wind farm typically generates 20 times as much energy as is used to make it.

https://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/FACULTY/ITO/GG410/Wind/Kubiszewski_EROI_Wind_Ren...



Actually - I think the answer to all our problems will
be cheap, safe, Thorium power:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1519823686/0#0
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans
Reply #25 - May 16th, 2020 at 8:22pm
 
Bobby. wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 2:19pm:
Robot wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 2:16pm:
Review:
https://ketanjoshi.co/2020/04/24/planet-of-the-humans-a-reheated-mess-of-lazy-ol...

The film is full of really old information and downright silly falsehoods.

Bobby. wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 9:57am:
Yes - it discussed wind turbines and how so much energy
is used to create them that it's a net loss.


That's one of the silly falsehoods.



Are you calling Michael Moore a liar?



He wasn't in the movie, Booby.

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Robot
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Engadine Maccas
Re: Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans
Reply #26 - May 17th, 2020 at 10:59am
 
Bobby. wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 3:55pm:
Robot wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 2:46pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 2:19pm:
Robot wrote on May 16th, 2020 at 2:16pm:
Review:
https://ketanjoshi.co/2020/04/24/planet-of-the-humans-a-reheated-mess-of-lazy-ol...

The film is full of really old information and downright silly falsehoods.

Bobby. wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 9:57am:
Yes - it discussed wind turbines and how so much energy
is used to create them that it's a net loss.


That's one of the silly falsehoods.



Are you calling Michael Moore a liar?



Sure, why not.

The Average EROI for a wind farm is ~20, which means that a wind farm typically generates 20 times as much energy as is used to make it.

https://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/FACULTY/ITO/GG410/Wind/Kubiszewski_EROI_Wind_Ren...



Actually - I think the answer to all our problems will
be cheap, safe, Thorium power:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1519823686/0#0


Cool. I agree that nuclear power would be effective and I would like to see it built. We can be like, Fission Sisters or something.

Remember that time we were talking about the EROI of wind turbines? The film claimed it was less than 1 and I linked to a meta analysis showing it was more like 20? How did we get from that to nuclear power?
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lee
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Re: Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans
Reply #27 - May 17th, 2020 at 1:48pm
 
Robot wrote on May 17th, 2020 at 10:59am:
The film claimed it was less than 1 and I linked to a meta analysis showing it was more like 20? How did we get from that to nuclear power?


And of course those damned insensitive unknowns. PLUS the battery back ups

$90 million for 30,000 houses for one hour. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Jasin
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Re: Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans
Reply #28 - May 17th, 2020 at 1:56pm
 
A New Zealander has invented a 'drone' that can ride the Gravitational force of the planet. No need for propellers or major engine. It changes it's power to weight ratio to match the level of gravity needed. Absolute Power.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Gordon
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Re: Michael Moore : Planet of the Humans
Reply #29 - May 17th, 2020 at 2:03pm
 
So this film is a bout how human over-consumption is damaging the planet?

...
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IBI
 
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