Australian Politics Forum - Sweden: We got it wrong

The_Barnacle

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Sweden: We got it wrong
Jun 4^th, 2020 at 5:36pm

Sweden's top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight COVID-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.

"If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done," Anders Tegnell said in an interview with Swedish Radio.

Gatherings of more than 50 people continue to be banned, but throughout the crisis Swedes have been able to visit restaurants, go shopping, attend gyms and send children under 16 to school.

The laxer approach to containing the virus has drawn both praise and indignation from across the globe. What is beyond debate, however, is the effect the strategy has had on the country's death toll.

At 43 deaths per 100,000, Sweden's death rate is among the highest globally and far exceeds that of neighbouring Denmark and Norway, which imposed much tougher lockdowns at the outset of the pandemic.

Now, Tegnell has for the first time admitted publicly that the strategy is resulting in too many deaths.

What's more, there's so far limited evidence that Sweden's decision to leave much of its society open will support the economy. Finance Minister Magdalena Andersson recently warned that Sweden is facing its worst economic crisis since World War II, with GDP set to slump 7per cent in 2020, roughly as much as the rest of the EU.

The government has started to grow concerned at the apparent missteps taken to fight the spread of the virus in Sweden. On Monday, Lofven promised there'd be an inquiry into the handling of the crisis before the summer.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/man-behind-sweden-s-controversial-coronaviru...

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The_Barnacle Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6205 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Sweden: We got it wrong Reply #1 - Jun 4^th, 2020 at 5:39pm Interesting. Those people rejecting the lockdown had pointed at Sweden. Turns out Sweden still had restrictions, and now has one of the worlds worse death tolls per capita And are still having an economic crash
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lee

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Re: Sweden: We got it wrong
Reply #2 - Jun 4^th, 2020 at 5:53pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Jun 4^th, 2020 at 5:39pm:

Turns out Sweden still had restrictions, and now has one of the worlds worse death tolls per capita

Yeah. It doesn't hurt if you say it quick. Seventh behind such luminaries as UK, Spain and Italy.

The_Barnacle wrote on Jun 4^th, 2020 at 5:36pm:

Gatherings of more than 50 people continue to be banned, but throughout the crisis Swedes have been able to visit restaurants, go shopping, attend gyms and send children under 16 to school.

Yep sure sounds like a lockdown. You do understand the difference between lockdowns and restrictions; don't you?

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Sweden: We got it wrong
Reply #3 - Jun 4^th, 2020 at 5:56pm

lee wrote on Jun 4^th, 2020 at 5:53pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Jun 4^th, 2020 at 5:36pm:

Gatherings of more than 50 people continue to be banned, but throughout the crisis Swedes have been able to visit restaurants, go shopping, attend gyms and send children under 16 to school.

Yep sure sounds like a lockdown. You do understand the difference between lockdowns and restrictions; don't you?

can you point out where I said Sweden had a lockdown?
looks like you have gone off half arsed again lee Grin

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lee

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Re: Sweden: We got it wrong
Reply #4 - Jun 4^th, 2020 at 6:02pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Jun 4^th, 2020 at 5:56pm:

can you point out where I said Sweden had a lockdown?
looks like you have gone off half arsed again lee

I never said that you had said they had a lockdown.

The_Barnacle wrote on Jun 4^th, 2020 at 5:39pm:

Those people rejecting the lockdown had pointed at Sweden.

So you made a comparison of a lockdown to Swedish restrictions. But critical thinking isn't your longsuit. Wink

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Sweden: We got it wrong
Reply #5 - Jun 4^th, 2020 at 6:09pm

lee wrote on Jun 4^th, 2020 at 6:02pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Jun 4^th, 2020 at 5:56pm:

can you point out where I said Sweden had a lockdown?
looks like you have gone off half arsed again lee

I never said that you had said they had a lockdown.

The_Barnacle wrote on Jun 4^th, 2020 at 5:39pm:

Those people rejecting the lockdown had pointed at Sweden.

So you made a comparison of a lockdown to Swedish restrictions. But critical thinking isn't your longsuit. Wink

You really aren't very smart are you lee.

I thought you only trolled people on the environmental threads. Clearly not Grin

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 84069 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Sweden: We got it wrong Reply #6 - Jun 4^th, 2020 at 6:44pm Starting with 'feminism', Sweden has got a lot of things wrong....
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40717 Gender:	Re: Sweden: We got it wrong Reply #7 - Jun 4^th, 2020 at 6:58pm I feel sorry for them but they made soft decisions. They did not take hard decisive actions to protect themselves.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17422 Gender:	Re: Sweden: We got it wrong Reply #8 - Jun 4^th, 2020 at 7:05pm The_Barnacle wrote on Jun 4^th, 2020 at 6:09pm: I thought you only trolled people on the environmental threads. Clearly not poor petal. Debunking something you write is not trolling. Never mind petal.
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aquascoot

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Re: Sweden: We got it wrong
Reply #9 - Jun 5^th, 2020 at 6:38am

Sweden have not got it wrong

sure they're death rate for the months of march and April are higher than a place like Queensland

but what makes you think that isn't just the Queensland has delayed the inevitable inevitable inevitable inevitable appearance of the virus

Sweden and Australia were both sent equivalent of a notification from the tax department they were about to be audited

Sweden has confronted this letter and has suffered some pain

Australia has chosen to throw it in the bottom drawer and pretend it doesn't exist
And for the moment we have suffered very little pain

that doesn't mean the letter isn't still there needing to be dealt with

It is a basic business principal

When confronted with a threat
It is always best to stand up straight and take on that threat in a timely fashion
Threats that are not confronted tend to grow

Our leadership has been willfully blind
The population have been willfully cowardly

Let's just see how Sweden and Australia are doing in 2 years' time

My prediction is there society will be far safer
Far richer
And far more free from emotional distress

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Bobby.

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Re: Sweden: We got it wrong
Reply #10 - Jun 5^th, 2020 at 7:55am

aquascoot wrote on Jun 5^th, 2020 at 6:38am:

Sweden have not got it wrong

sure they're death rate for the months of march and April are higher than a place like Queensland

but what makes you think that isn't just the Queensland has delayed the inevitable inevitable inevitable inevitable appearance of the virus

Sweden and Australia were both sent equivalent of a notification from the tax department they were about to be audited

Sweden has confronted this letter and has suffered some pain

Australia has chosen to throw it in the bottom drawer and pretend it doesn't exist
And for the moment we have suffered very little pain

that doesn't mean the letter isn't still there needing to be dealt with

It is a basic business principal

When confronted with a threat
It is always best to stand up straight and take on that threat in a timely fashion
Threats that are not confronted tend to grow

Our leadership has been willfully blind
The population have been willfully cowardly

Let's just see how Sweden and Australia are doing in 2 years' time

My prediction is there society will be far safer
Far richer
And far more free from emotional distress

dear Aqua,
many months ago no one knew enough about this virus.
A good analogy is driving your car through
an intersection where there is water flowing like a river.
You don't know how deep that water is -
will your car be overwhelmed? -
will you end up rolling over and being drowned?
If you don't know you don't drive through it.

You're saying that you'd just head on into those flowing waters and hope for the best?

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Gnads

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Re: Sweden: We got it wrong
Reply #11 - Jun 5^th, 2020 at 8:24am

aquascoot wrote on Jun 5^th, 2020 at 6:38am:

Sweden have not got it wrong

sure they're death rate for the months of march and April are higher than a place like Queensland

but what makes you think that isn't just the Queensland has delayed the inevitable inevitable inevitable inevitable appearance of the virus

Sweden and Australia were both sent equivalent of a notification from the tax department they were about to be audited

Sweden has confronted this letter and has suffered some pain

Australia has chosen to throw it in the bottom drawer and pretend it doesn't exist
And for the moment we have suffered very little pain

that doesn't mean the letter isn't still there needing to be dealt with

It is a basic business principal

When confronted with a threat
It is always best to stand up straight and take on that threat in a timely fashion
Threats that are not confronted tend to grow

Our leadership has been willfully blind
The population have been willfully cowardly

Let's just see how Sweden and Australia are doing in 2 years' time

My prediction is there society will be far safer
Far richer
And far more free from emotional distress

Actually I thought what Sweden did was the exact opposite of confronting the problem.

I thought it took the Beta Male stance not to rock the boat & upset it's people.

You know a real lefty attitude for what is a real lefty country.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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aquascoot

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Re: Sweden: We got it wrong
Reply #12 - Jun 5^th, 2020 at 8:29am

Bobby. wrote on Jun 5^th, 2020 at 7:55am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 5^th, 2020 at 6:38am:

Sweden have not got it wrong

sure they're death rate for the months of march and April are higher than a place like Queensland

but what makes you think that isn't just the Queensland has delayed the inevitable inevitable inevitable inevitable appearance of the virus

Sweden and Australia were both sent equivalent of a notification from the tax department they were about to be audited

Sweden has confronted this letter and has suffered some pain

Australia has chosen to throw it in the bottom drawer and pretend it doesn't exist
And for the moment we have suffered very little pain

that doesn't mean the letter isn't still there needing to be dealt with

It is a basic business principal

When confronted with a threat
It is always best to stand up straight and take on that threat in a timely fashion
Threats that are not confronted tend to grow

Our leadership has been willfully blind
The population have been willfully cowardly

Let's just see how Sweden and Australia are doing in 2 years' time

My prediction is there society will be far safer
Far richer
And far more free from emotional distress

dear Aqua,
many months ago no one knew enough about this virus.
A good analogy is driving your car through
an intersection where there is water flowing like a river.
You don't know how deep that water is -
will your car be overwhelmed? -
will you end up rolling over and being drowned?
If you don't know you don't drive through it.

You're saying that you'd just head on into those flowing waters and hope for the best?

Not a bad analogy Bobby
But we have now surveyed the depth of the water
And found it to be 2 inches

The premier of Queensland still considers this
Far too risky for us to venture forward Grin

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aquascoot

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Re: Sweden: We got it wrong
Reply #13 - Jun 5^th, 2020 at 8:32am

Gnads wrote on Jun 5^th, 2020 at 8:24am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 5^th, 2020 at 6:38am:

Sweden have not got it wrong

sure they're death rate for the months of march and April are higher than a place like Queensland

but what makes you think that isn't just the Queensland has delayed the inevitable inevitable inevitable inevitable appearance of the virus

Sweden and Australia were both sent equivalent of a notification from the tax department they were about to be audited

Sweden has confronted this letter and has suffered some pain

Australia has chosen to throw it in the bottom drawer and pretend it doesn't exist
And for the moment we have suffered very little pain

that doesn't mean the letter isn't still there needing to be dealt with

It is a basic business principal

When confronted with a threat
It is always best to stand up straight and take on that threat in a timely fashion
Threats that are not confronted tend to grow

Our leadership has been willfully blind
The population have been willfully cowardly

Let's just see how Sweden and Australia are doing in 2 years' time

My prediction is there society will be far safer
Far richer
And far more free from emotional distress

Actually I thought what Sweden did was the exact opposite of confronting the problem.

I thought it took the Beta Male stance not to rock the boat & upset it's people.

You know a real lefty attitude for what is a real lefty country.

That's not how I see it

When I see state premiers
Crying crocodile tears over the catastrophic death of a 95 year old dementia patient
I am aware that we are in the realm
Of the overly compassionate
Emotionally unmastered
Virtue masking uselessness
Unable to move forward with a spirit of adventure
Safe space loving
Fragile
Helicopter parenting
Lefty intellectual nanny state

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Bobby.

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Re: Sweden: We got it wrong
Reply #14 - Jun 5^th, 2020 at 8:33am

aquascoot wrote on Jun 5^th, 2020 at 8:29am:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 5^th, 2020 at 7:55am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 5^th, 2020 at 6:38am:

Sweden have not got it wrong

sure they're death rate for the months of march and April are higher than a place like Queensland

but what makes you think that isn't just the Queensland has delayed the inevitable inevitable inevitable inevitable appearance of the virus

Sweden and Australia were both sent equivalent of a notification from the tax department they were about to be audited

Sweden has confronted this letter and has suffered some pain

Australia has chosen to throw it in the bottom drawer and pretend it doesn't exist
And for the moment we have suffered very little pain

that doesn't mean the letter isn't still there needing to be dealt with

It is a basic business principal

When confronted with a threat
It is always best to stand up straight and take on that threat in a timely fashion
Threats that are not confronted tend to grow

Our leadership has been willfully blind
The population have been willfully cowardly

Let's just see how Sweden and Australia are doing in 2 years' time

My prediction is there society will be far safer
Far richer
And far more free from emotional distress

dear Aqua,
many months ago no one knew enough about this virus.
A good analogy is driving your car through
an intersection where there is water flowing like a river.
You don't know how deep that water is -
will your car be overwhelmed? -
will you end up rolling over and being drowned?
If you don't know you don't drive through it.

You're saying that you'd just head on into those flowing waters and hope for the best?

Not a bad analogy Bobby
But we have now surveyed the depth of the water
And found it to be 2 inches

The premier of Queensland still considers this
Far too risky for us to venture forward Grin

But we still don't know enough.
I heard last night - ABC news - that 1 in 6 people -
including old people -
can get the virus, carry the virus and
can infect others
without showing any symptoms themselves.

This is the start of the pandemic - not the end.
We're now in Winter so I expect a 2nd wave.

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