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Karnal

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Re: the left
Reply #135 - Jun 15^th, 2020 at 12:58pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 11:15am:

Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 11:13am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 11:02am:

Karnal wrote on Jun 14^th, 2020 at 8:35pm:

No, Harvard assesses race for scholarships. It does not, and nor does any university in Australia that I'm aware of, exclude anybody from applying to study based on their race. If they did, you would see class action lawsuits like you've never seen before.

But I'm curious. Are you saying university entrance is skewed in a way that discriminates against rich whites?

And are you saying that this facilitates inequality of opportunity?
Undecided

Cheers.

There are programs which gier students from lower SES , regional areas lower requirements, but they don't exclude people.

Do you think they make the case that we live in a categorically unequal society, so unfair, because blacks get more than rich whites?

That's Aquascoot's argument.

No they make the case that we live in a categorically unequal society, so unfair, because blacks get less than rich whites.

So why would Aquascoot be arguing the exact opposite of the truth?

It doesn't make sense.

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aquascoot

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Re: the left
Reply #136 - Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:00pm

“The consideration of race, alongside many other factors, helps us achieve our goal of creating a diverse student body that enriches the education of every student,” University president Lawrence S. Bacow said in a message to the University community. “Everyone admitted to Harvard College has something unique to offer our community, and today we reaffirm the importance of diversity—and everything it represents to the world.”

when they starting talking diversity, they are talking equality of outcome
(the outcome being admission to harvard),
not equality of opportunity (those with the best grades get the spot)

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74264 Gender:	Re: the left Reply #137 - Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:07pm Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 12:58pm: So why would Aquascoot be arguing the exact opposite of the truth? It doesn't make sense. he was most likely kicked in the head by a horse when he was younger
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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: the left
Reply #138 - Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:18pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:00pm:

“The consideration of race, alongside many other factors, helps us achieve our goal of creating a diverse student body that enriches the education of every student,” University president Lawrence S. Bacow said in a message to the University community. “Everyone admitted to Harvard College has something unique to offer our community, and today we reaffirm the importance of diversity—and everything it represents to the world.”

when they starting talking diversity, they are talking equality of outcome
(the outcome being admission to harvard),
not equality of opportunity (those with the best grades get the spot)

Thats not evidence you know.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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aquascoot

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Re: the left
Reply #139 - Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:21pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:18pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:00pm:

“The consideration of race, alongside many other factors, helps us achieve our goal of creating a diverse student body that enriches the education of every student,” University president Lawrence S. Bacow said in a message to the University community. “Everyone admitted to Harvard College has something unique to offer our community, and today we reaffirm the importance of diversity—and everything it represents to the world.”

when they starting talking diversity, they are talking equality of outcome
(the outcome being admission to harvard),
not equality of opportunity (those with the best grades get the spot)

Thats not evidence you know.

The university president says the aim is to create diversity.

Asian students with higher SATs then African American students miss out.

Students are chosen on the basis of race, not test scores, so that diversity can be constructed.

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: the left
Reply #140 - Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:22pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:21pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:18pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:00pm:

“The consideration of race, alongside many other factors, helps us achieve our goal of creating a diverse student body that enriches the education of every student,” University president Lawrence S. Bacow said in a message to the University community. “Everyone admitted to Harvard College has something unique to offer our community, and today we reaffirm the importance of diversity—and everything it represents to the world.”

when they starting talking diversity, they are talking equality of outcome
(the outcome being admission to harvard),
not equality of opportunity (those with the best grades get the spot)

Thats not evidence you know.

The university president says the aim is to create diversity.

Asian students with higher SATs then African American students miss out.

Students are chosen on the basis of race, not test scores, so that diversity can be constructed.

You still haven't produced evidence yet.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: the left
Reply #141 - Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:26pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:21pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:18pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:00pm:

“The consideration of race, alongside many other factors, helps us achieve our goal of creating a diverse student body that enriches the education of every student,” University president Lawrence S. Bacow said in a message to the University community. “Everyone admitted to Harvard College has something unique to offer our community, and today we reaffirm the importance of diversity—and everything it represents to the world.”

when they starting talking diversity, they are talking equality of outcome
(the outcome being admission to harvard),
not equality of opportunity (those with the best grades get the spot)

Thats not evidence you know.

The university president says the aim is to create diversity.

Asian students with higher SATs then African American students miss out.

Students are chosen on the basis of race, not test scores, so that diversity can be constructed.

Whilst we're on equality of opportunity at Harvard how about that kid at the Frisch School whose GPA and SAT didn't merit entry but got entry based on his dad giving them $2.5 million as a gift

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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aquascoot

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Re: the left
Reply #142 - Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:29pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 12:58pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 11:15am:

Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 11:13am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 11:02am:

Karnal wrote on Jun 14^th, 2020 at 8:35pm:

No, Harvard assesses race for scholarships. It does not, and nor does any university in Australia that I'm aware of, exclude anybody from applying to study based on their race. If they did, you would see class action lawsuits like you've never seen before.

But I'm curious. Are you saying university entrance is skewed in a way that discriminates against rich whites?

And are you saying that this facilitates inequality of opportunity?
Undecided

Cheers.

There are programs which gier students from lower SES , regional areas lower requirements, but they don't exclude people.

Do you think they make the case that we live in a categorically unequal society, so unfair, because blacks get more than rich whites?

That's Aquascoot's argument.

No they make the case that we live in a categorically unequal society, so unfair, because blacks get less than rich whites.

So why would Aquascoot be arguing the exact opposite of the truth?

It doesn't make sense.

Again, you are arguing for equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity.

Chinese working on the railroads in America were badly treated slaves, very similar in victimhood and oppression to African Americans.

But Chinese are now doing well.
Same with Jews.
Terrible oppression.
But now doing well.

Once you start doing well, you lose your victim status.

What logic is there to that.
You either were oppressed or you weren't.

Why should Chinese kids and Jewish kids lose spots at Harvard so we can have " diversity"

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aquascoot

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Re: the left
Reply #143 - Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:30pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:26pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:21pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:18pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:00pm:

“The consideration of race, alongside many other factors, helps us achieve our goal of creating a diverse student body that enriches the education of every student,” University president Lawrence S. Bacow said in a message to the University community. “Everyone admitted to Harvard College has something unique to offer our community, and today we reaffirm the importance of diversity—and everything it represents to the world.”

when they starting talking diversity, they are talking equality of outcome
(the outcome being admission to harvard),
not equality of opportunity (those with the best grades get the spot)

Thats not evidence you know.

The university president says the aim is to create diversity.

Asian students with higher SATs then African American students miss out.

Students are chosen on the basis of race, not test scores, so that diversity can be constructed.

Whilst we're on equality of opportunity at Harvard how about that kid at the Frisch School whose GPA and SAT didn't merit entry but got entry based on his dad giving them $2.5 million as a gift

Shouldn't have got in.
Corruption of the meritocracy.
Wicked stuff

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Canberra
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Re: the left
Reply #144 - Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:34pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:30pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:26pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:21pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:18pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:00pm:

“The consideration of race, alongside many other factors, helps us achieve our goal of creating a diverse student body that enriches the education of every student,” University president Lawrence S. Bacow said in a message to the University community. “Everyone admitted to Harvard College has something unique to offer our community, and today we reaffirm the importance of diversity—and everything it represents to the world.”

when they starting talking diversity, they are talking equality of outcome
(the outcome being admission to harvard),
not equality of opportunity (those with the best grades get the spot)

Thats not evidence you know.

The university president says the aim is to create diversity.

Asian students with higher SATs then African American students miss out.

Students are chosen on the basis of race, not test scores, so that diversity can be constructed.

Whilst we're on equality of opportunity at Harvard how about that kid at the Frisch School whose GPA and SAT didn't merit entry but got entry based on his dad giving them $2.5 million as a gift

Shouldn't have got in.
Corruption of the meritocracy.
Wicked stuff

My point exactly. But you may feel conflicted aqua.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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aquascoot Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34423 Gender:	Re: the left Reply #145 - Jun 15^th, 2020 at 2:02pm no, it should be equality of opportunity if there are 200 spots, they go to the 200 students with the best grades. no need to look at their sex, race, religion, income, postcode. then you have a true meritocracy
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Karnal

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Re: the left
Reply #146 - Jun 15^th, 2020 at 2:08pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:00pm:

“The consideration of race, alongside many other factors, helps us achieve our goal of creating a diverse student body that enriches the education of every student,” University president Lawrence S. Bacow said in a message to the University community. “Everyone admitted to Harvard College has something unique to offer our community, and today we reaffirm the importance of diversity—and everything it represents to the world.”

when they starting talking diversity, they are talking equality of outcome
(the outcome being admission to harvard),
not equality of opportunity (those with the best grades get the spot)

Talking about diversity, yes?

You mean like the way you welcome Chows and "noble Gurkhas" to our fine shores, no?

How diabolically wacist. But I'm curious. Equality of outcome is about an equal share of the pie. I.e, equal wages.

How does a non-racially biased university entrance policy apply to that?

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: the left
Reply #147 - Jun 15^th, 2020 at 2:08pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 2:02pm:

no,

it should be equality of opportunity

if there are 200 spots, they go to the 200 students with the best grades.

no need to look at their sex, race, religion, income, postcode.

then you have a true meritocracy

Still though in this case of
Whilst we're on equality of opportunity at Harvard how about that kid at the Frisch School whose GPA and SAT didn't merit entry but got entry based on his dad giving them $2.5 million as a gift

You may feel conflicted

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Karnal

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Re: the left
Reply #148 - Jun 15^th, 2020 at 2:15pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:21pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:18pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:00pm:

“The consideration of race, alongside many other factors, helps us achieve our goal of creating a diverse student body that enriches the education of every student,” University president Lawrence S. Bacow said in a message to the University community. “Everyone admitted to Harvard College has something unique to offer our community, and today we reaffirm the importance of diversity—and everything it represents to the world.”

when they starting talking diversity, they are talking equality of outcome
(the outcome being admission to harvard),
not equality of opportunity (those with the best grades get the spot)

Thats not evidence you know.

The university president says the aim is to create diversity.

Asian students with higher SATs then African American students miss out.

Students are chosen on the basis of race, not test scores, so that diversity can be constructed.

Students to Harvard are chosen on the basis of entrance scores and their financial contributions.

They have different intake processes, just like our family reunion visa criteria. If you pay a hundred grand to DFAT, your visa application goes to the top of the queue.

We call this capitalism. You?

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Karnal

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Re: the left
Reply #149 - Jun 15^th, 2020 at 2:22pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 1:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 12:58pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 11:15am:

Karnal wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 11:13am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 15^th, 2020 at 11:02am:

Karnal wrote on Jun 14^th, 2020 at 8:35pm:

No, Harvard assesses race for scholarships. It does not, and nor does any university in Australia that I'm aware of, exclude anybody from applying to study based on their race. If they did, you would see class action lawsuits like you've never seen before.

But I'm curious. Are you saying university entrance is skewed in a way that discriminates against rich whites?

And are you saying that this facilitates inequality of opportunity?
Undecided

Cheers.

There are programs which gier students from lower SES , regional areas lower requirements, but they don't exclude people.

Do you think they make the case that we live in a categorically unequal society, so unfair, because blacks get more than rich whites?

That's Aquascoot's argument.

No they make the case that we live in a categorically unequal society, so unfair, because blacks get less than rich whites.

So why would Aquascoot be arguing the exact opposite of the truth?

It doesn't make sense.

Again, you are arguing for equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity.

Chinese working on the railroads in America were badly treated slaves, very similar in victimhood and oppression to African Americans.

But Chinese are now doing well.
Same with Jews.
Terrible oppression.
But now doing well.

Once you start doing well, you lose your victim status.

What logic is there to that.
You either were oppressed or you weren't.

Why should Chinese kids and Jewish kids lose spots at Harvard so we can have " diversity"

You haven't proved that they do, but student admissions have nothing to do with equality of outcome. Plenty of Harvard graduates go an work in poor legal firms that pay next to nothing. Others go on to become prez.

Others still pretend certain black prezes made it through Harvard because they were black, but paid Brown University administrators off to hide their own academic records.

There's no equality of outcome in grades, dear. So unfair.

Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

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