Australian Politics Forum - did the protestors spread the virus?

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #210 - Aug 4^th, 2020 at 6:48pm Also, weren't there BLM protests all around the country? Why did it only cause a second wave in Victoria hmmm?
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 49865 Gender:	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #211 - Aug 4^th, 2020 at 6:51pm polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2020 at 6:48pm: Also, weren't there BLM protests all around the country? Why did it only cause a second wave in Victoria hmmm?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #212 - Aug 4^th, 2020 at 7:11pm

freediver wrote on Aug 4^th, 2020 at 6:47pm:

Yes please. I have already asked you about this alleged synchronised inmate rooting. But you ran away.

What percentage of the 2nd wave infections can be traced back to this rooting?

The synchronised rooting was your invention, so I'll leave that for you to explain.

That the quarantine bungle was the spark that lit the blaze is not seriously in dispute:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-11/fuel-spark-victoria-response-virus-public...

But you tell me FD, applying some actual common sense here - which I know is usually a challenge for you - what is more likely? An outbreak caused by known infected people supposed to be in quarantine who we know infected their security guards, who were all at the time breaking quarantine protocol, visiting prime incubating areas like restaurants and gyms, or people attending an outdoor rally, not a high-chance infection event - and besides which the attendees were known to be practicing social distancing and hand sanitizing - only two of which are known to be infected at the time?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49509 At my desk.	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #213 - Aug 4^th, 2020 at 7:13pm Quote: That the quarantine bungle was the spark that lit the blaze is not seriously in dispute: That's just what I'd expect from a politician trying to blame the second wave on anything other than the protests, without actually providing any facts. Where is that graph you offered?
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Frank

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #214 - Aug 4^th, 2020 at 7:15pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2020 at 2:00pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2020 at 4:55pm:

It was already illegal. Yet somehow it went ahead with the Victorian government asking them nicely nice to go.

I don't know if they were technically illegal or not. What I do know is that you originally said the government "condoned" the protests, and are now trying to shift the goalposts after being proven wrong.

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2020 at 4:55pm:

Including the earlier BLM protests?

Of course. But being a bad idea in terms of risking the spread of infection doesn't mean it actually did spread the infection.

It was contrary to the rules in place, rules brought in legislatively. You know, lawfully.
But woke bedwetting-yet-jihadi ijits like you and this woman and hundreds of others shouted about 'wacism' is a gweater thweat than Covid-19" and Victoria, being run by a woke fapper, bent its OWN rules to not enforce them if you broke them for BLM idiocy reasons. PC kills. We see it now every day.

https://theconversation.com/profiles/lakshmi-manoharan-1014558
https://theconversation.com/why-protesting-racism-during-a-pandemic-is-important...
https://theintercept.com/2020/06/11/systemic-racism-protests-coronavirus-health-...

Either we are all equal under the law or we are not (your jihadi angle). If the law is an ass and the rules are arbitrary, you change them first. You don't disobey them because of your woke/jihadi/wace-baiting moral preening - and then insist that everyone ELSE obey them.

You are not a libertarian advocating that all rule be ignored. You are opportunistic jihadi advocating the destruction of the equality of all before the law because it is an idea completely non-compliant with your plan to have Islamic rule across the face of the earth.

You cannot be, and so you are not, a liberal Muslim who want a democratic, open, enlightened-yet-Muslim society. You are not stupid enough to spend your life on a contradiction and impossibility.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #215 - Aug 4^th, 2020 at 7:44pm

freediver wrote on Aug 4^th, 2020 at 7:13pm:

Quote:

That the quarantine bungle was the spark that lit the blaze is not seriously in dispute:

That's just what I'd expect from a politician trying to blame the second wave on anything other than the protests, without actually providing any facts.

Except its not from politicians in this case.

Blaming the second wave on something without actually providing any facts? Stop it FD, you're killing me. I'll bet you don't even see the irony in such a statement.

Quote:

Where is that graph you offered?

Just imagine the same graph except with a marker showing when the quarantine protocol breaches happened - which coincidentally were just before the second wave.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #216 - Aug 4^th, 2020 at 7:45pm Frank wrote on Aug 4^th, 2020 at 7:15pm: It was contrary to the rules in place, rules brought in legislatively. You know, lawfully. So were the quarantine protocol breaches. What exactly is your point Frank?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49509 At my desk.	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #217 - Aug 4^th, 2020 at 8:13pm Quote: Blaming the second wave on something without actually providing any facts? Stop it FD, you're killing me. I'll bet you don't even see the irony in such a statement. You haven't provided any facts Gandalf. You have offered to provide them, but then you ran away.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #218 - Aug 4^th, 2020 at 8:43pm

freediver wrote on Aug 4^th, 2020 at 8:13pm:

You haven't provided any facts Gandalf. You have offered to provide them, but then you ran away.

And then I linked an ABC article with a whole bunch of facts.

Did you bother reading it?

Quote:

The first case of a security guard working in a quarantine hotel being infected was reported on May 27, at a similar time to the first family outbreaks being identified.

From there, infections spiralled to the point where at least 60 cases have now been linked to clusters at two hotels in Melbourne.

The hotel infections have been linked to spread in the community, including a family outbreak in south-eastern Melbourne.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49509 At my desk.	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #219 - Aug 4^th, 2020 at 9:35pm Wow, at least 60 cases. How does this demonstrate that the protestors did not spread the virus?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #220 - Aug 5^th, 2020 at 10:09am

freediver wrote on Aug 4^th, 2020 at 9:35pm:

How does this demonstrate that the protestors did not spread the virus?

It doesn't. It just demonstrates that the quarantine bungle theory has legs, whereas the protest theory has no legs whatsoever. Since I just gave you clear evidence that the quarantine bungle caused *AN* outbreak at a critical point in time - whereas you have provided precisely zero evidence that the protests caused any outbreak whatsoever. Like I said, correlation is not causation. And yes, 60 cases certainly is a "wow" in the context of a so-called "second wave" that is still only causing daily infections in the hundreds.

And here's some more of those pesky "facts" for you:

Quote:

The state's Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton confirmed all of the strains were different from those found in the first wave: "There is no evidence of any original virus from February, March around currently," Professor Sutton said last Tuesday.

Which means it most likely came from overseas.

Mandatory hotel quarantine is widely accepted to be one of the biggest factors that helped Australia flatten the curve the first time, but now it seems likely that a single failure in that program sparked a wave of cases far bigger than the first.

If this wave originated from infected people arriving from overseas (as the state's chief medical officer suggests), then it means its a failure of quarantine that caused the outbreak. Since all overseas arrivals automatically go into mandatory quarantine.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Jest

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #221 - Aug 5^th, 2020 at 11:39am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5^th, 2020 at 10:09am:

freediver wrote on Aug 4^th, 2020 at 9:35pm:

How does this demonstrate that the protestors did not spread the virus?

It doesn't. It just demonstrates that the quarantine bungle theory has legs, whereas the protest theory has no legs whatsoever. Since I just gave you clear evidence that the quarantine bungle caused *AN* outbreak at a critical point in time - whereas you have provided precisely zero evidence that the protests caused any outbreak whatsoever. Like I said, correlation is not causation. And yes, 60 cases certainly is a "wow" in the context of a so-called "second wave" that is still only causing daily infections in the hundreds.

So do you think god threw his magic cloak around the protesters and stopped them spreading the virus because he/she is a BLM supporter from way way back

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Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

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Gnads

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #222 - Aug 5^th, 2020 at 11:39am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2020 at 8:43pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 4^th, 2020 at 8:13pm:

You haven't provided any facts Gandalf. You have offered to provide them, but then you ran away.

And then I linked an ABC article with a whole bunch of facts.

Did you bother reading it?

Quote:

The first case of a security guard working in a quarantine hotel being infected was reported on May 27, at a similar time to the first family outbreaks being identified.

From there, infections spiralled to the point where at least 60 cases have now been linked to clusters at two hotels in Melbourne.

The hotel infections have been linked to spread in the community, including a family outbreak in south-eastern Melbourne.

Tell me why... as cases ramp up around Sydney is this being allowed? Roll Eyes

Quote:

Auburn Gallipoli Mosque granted coronavirus exemption for 400 people to celebrate Eid-al-Adha

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-31/auburn-mosque-granted-coronavirus-exempti...

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greggerypeccary

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #223 - Aug 5^th, 2020 at 11:45am

Gnads wrote on Aug 5^th, 2020 at 11:39am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2020 at 8:43pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 4^th, 2020 at 8:13pm:

You haven't provided any facts Gandalf. You have offered to provide them, but then you ran away.

And then I linked an ABC article with a whole bunch of facts.

Did you bother reading it?

Quote:

The first case of a security guard working in a quarantine hotel being infected was reported on May 27, at a similar time to the first family outbreaks being identified.

From there, infections spiralled to the point where at least 60 cases have now been linked to clusters at two hotels in Melbourne.

The hotel infections have been linked to spread in the community, including a family outbreak in south-eastern Melbourne.

Tell me why... as cases ramp up around Sydney is this being allowed? Roll Eyes

Quote:

Auburn Gallipoli Mosque granted coronavirus exemption for 400 people to celebrate Eid-al-Adha

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-31/auburn-mosque-granted-coronavirus-exempti...

That doesn't seem to be as bad as I first thought.

"Under NSW coronavirus restrictions, places of worship are limited to 100 people, or one visitor per four square metres."

"The mosque's president Abdurrahman Asaroglu said those attending the annual festival of Eid al-Adha, also known as the festival of sacrifice, would be subject to temperature checks, sign-in sheets, and it would be mandatory to wear a mask.

"Worshippers at the mosque will be expected to bring their own prayer mats and abide by social distancing rules while praying.

"Dr Asaroglu said attendees would be spread out across "four zones" including the two levels of the mosque, an adjoining function hall and carpark.

"In a statement, NSW Health said exemptions were only considered under "exceptional circumstances" and the mosque had developed a comprehensive COVID-19 Safety Plan.

"It said none of the separate zones would exceed 100 worshippers and would not be allowed to mix between areas."

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polite_gandalf

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #224 - Aug 5^th, 2020 at 12:12pm

Jest wrote on Aug 5^th, 2020 at 11:39am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5^th, 2020 at 10:09am:

freediver wrote on Aug 4^th, 2020 at 9:35pm:

How does this demonstrate that the protestors did not spread the virus?

It doesn't. It just demonstrates that the quarantine bungle theory has legs, whereas the protest theory has no legs whatsoever. Since I just gave you clear evidence that the quarantine bungle caused *AN* outbreak at a critical point in time - whereas you have provided precisely zero evidence that the protests caused any outbreak whatsoever. Like I said, correlation is not causation. And yes, 60 cases certainly is a "wow" in the context of a so-called "second wave" that is still only causing daily infections in the hundreds.

So do you think god threw his magic cloak around the protesters and stopped them spreading the virus because he/she is a BLM supporter from way way back

Its not too much to ask - just some shred of evidence that the protest caused the second wave. FD throws us a graph that shows the protest happening just before the second wave, and says "voila - correlation = causation!" - which we all know is one of the most well known of all logical fallacies. And its entirely plausible that the protest did not cause the outbreak - given what we know about the relative low risk of outdoor events and the social distancing and hand sanitising measures the protestors took. Not for a minute saying it was a good idea though.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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