Australian Politics Forum - did the protestors spread the virus?

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49506 At my desk.	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #270 - Aug 26^th, 2020 at 6:04pm Of course not. Do you?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49506 At my desk.	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #271 - Sep 6^th, 2020 at 4:44pm Has everyone changed their mind?
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UnSubRocky

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #272 - Sep 9^th, 2020 at 2:10am

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2020 at 4:44pm:

Has everyone changed their mind?

Some months back, I thought that the coronavirus case numbers were going to be about 60,000 before the general decline and cessation of the virus. A couple of months ago, with 6,000 cases and probably 100 deaths, I figured that my prediction was greatly exaggerated. Tonight, I have concluded that there might be a middle ground for my previous predictions. Say, 35,000 cases (we are in the final stages) and perhaps 1,000 deaths (I hope not).

I do not think there was a considerable influence of the BLM protest to have spread the covid19. I figure it was those that had jetted into Australia from overseas hotspots that had reactivated the spread of covid19, because they did not want to quarantine properly.

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At this stage...

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polite_gandalf

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #273 - Sep 14^th, 2020 at 11:28am

freediver wrote on Aug 20^th, 2020 at 6:43pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 20^th, 2020 at 1:57pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 19^th, 2020 at 5:54pm:

Can you explain how this answers the question at hand?

And which question is currently "at hand" FD? I was dealing with two particular claims of mine that you seemed to take issue with - 1. that Andrews acknowledged that the quarantine bungle was responsible for the second wave and 2. that there is clear evidence that the quarantine bungle caused the second wave. I present evidence which clearly substantiates those claims.

did the protestors spread the virus?

Sensible people stick to the evidence. And there is no shred of evidence that the protestors spread the virus.

What the evidence does say is that this so called "second wave" is a new strain of the virus that was not previously in the community - meaning that it was imported from overseas. The evidence also points to two specific quarantine hotels in Melbourne.

Here you go, I'll give you yet another article about it so you can ignore that too, and bury your head back into your tin-foil hat conspiracies:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/aug/18/hotel-quarantine-linked-t...

and the abc article I posted for you to ignore as well - explaining why the 2nd wave strain most likely came from overseas:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-11/fuel-spark-victoria-response-virus-public...

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #274 - Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:20pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 11:28am:

freediver wrote on Aug 20^th, 2020 at 6:43pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 20^th, 2020 at 1:57pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 19^th, 2020 at 5:54pm:

Can you explain how this answers the question at hand?

And which question is currently "at hand" FD? I was dealing with two particular claims of mine that you seemed to take issue with - 1. that Andrews acknowledged that the quarantine bungle was responsible for the second wave and 2. that there is clear evidence that the quarantine bungle caused the second wave. I present evidence which clearly substantiates those claims.

did the protestors spread the virus?

Sensible people stick to the evidence. And there is no shred of evidence that the protestors spread the virus.

What the evidence does say is that this so called "second wave" is a new strain of the virus that was not previously in the community - meaning that it was imported from overseas. The evidence also points to two specific quarantine hotels in Melbourne.

Here you go, I'll give you yet another article about it so you can ignore that too, and bury your head back into your tin-foil hat conspiracies:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/aug/18/hotel-quarantine-linked-t...

and the abc article I posted for you to ignore as well - explaining why the 2nd wave strain most likely came from overseas:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-11/fuel-spark-victoria-response-virus-public...

The virus came from China Gandalf. We know that. But it does not mean the protestors did not spread it.

Sensible people know that equating absence of evidence with evidence of absence is a logical fallacy. But Dan Andrews knows that must people are not sensible.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #275 - Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:39pm

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:20pm:

Sensible people know that equating absence of evidence with evidence of absence is a logical fallacy.

You've used this idiotic line to try and legitimise baseless BS statements before. Its possibly even more inappropriate and idiotic in this instance. Its like anyone who reasonably insists that claims need to be substantiated with evidence before they can be taken seriously - can simply be dismissed as equating absense of evidence with evidence of absense. And hey, you get to spout cool sounding phrases like "logical fallacy" to cover up the fact that you have no freaking clue what you are talking about.

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:20pm:

The virus came from China Gandalf. We know that. But it does not mean the protestors did not spread it.

Never mind FD. The point obviously went straight over your head. Next time it might help if you actually read what I'm talking about. The dummies version is that the strain that caused the second wave can be traced to a specific place and time - which given what and when this place and time actually was, absolutely does mean that the protestors almost certainly didn't spread it. But of course you would have understood this if you actually read what I was talking about.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #276 - Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:44pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:39pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:20pm:

Sensible people know that equating absence of evidence with evidence of absence is a logical fallacy.

You've used this idiotic line to try and legitimise baseless BS statements before. Its possibly even more inappropriate and idiotic in this instance. Its like anyone who reasonably insists that claims need to be substantiated with evidence before they can be taken seriously - can simply be dismissed as equating absense of evidence with evidence of absense. And hey, you get to spout cool sounding phrases like "logical fallacy" to cover up the fact that you have no freaking clue what you are talking about.

I am asking a question Gandalf. Did the protestors spread the virus? You seem to think that not having evidence answers the question. Why is that?

Quote:

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:20pm:

The virus came from China Gandalf. We know that. But it does not mean the protestors did not spread it.

Never mind FD. The point obviously went straight over your head. Next time it might help if you actually read what I'm talking about. The dummies version is that the strain that caused the second wave can be traced to a specific place and time - which given what and when this place and time actually was, absolutely does mean that the protestors almost certainly didn't spread it. But of course you would have understood this if you actually read what I was talking about.

When was this place and time?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #277 - Sep 15^th, 2020 at 10:43am

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:44pm:

I am asking a question Gandalf. Did the protestors spread the virus? You seem to think that not having evidence answers the question. Why is that?

Of course it answers the question FD. Just pause for a moment and consider how utterly absurd you are being in these four sentences.

If you really can't understand how pointing out the lack of evidence answers the question perfectly, then there's not much else I can do to help you. No wonder that you fumble around with completely inapropriate idiotic retorts like 'absense of evidence does not equate evidence of absense'. Presumably the only answer you would accept is one that is based on complete ignorance and without any basis in actual fact - you know like the BS you dish out on a daily basis.

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:44pm:

When was this place and time?

I'm not going to endlessly repeat myself just because you refuse to read and comprehend what I post.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Gazza

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #278 - Sep 16^th, 2020 at 7:39am

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 10:43am:

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:44pm:

I am asking a question Gandalf. Did the protestors spread the virus? You seem to think that not having evidence answers the question. Why is that?

Of course it answers the question FD. Just pause for a moment and consider how utterly absurd you are being in these four sentences.

If you really can't understand how pointing out the lack of evidence answers the question perfectly, then there's not much else I can do to help you. No wonder that you fumble around with completely inapropriate idiotic retorts like 'absense of evidence does not equate evidence of absense'. Presumably the only answer you would accept is one that is based on complete ignorance and without any basis in actual fact - you know like the BS you dish out on a daily basis.

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:44pm:

When was this place and time?

I'm not going to endlessly repeat myself just because you refuse to read and comprehend what I post.

This assumes, of course, that we truly do have all the evidence. We don't!

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polite_gandalf

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #279 - Sep 16^th, 2020 at 10:15am

There is evidence that the second wave was caused by quarantine bungling. See the expert testimony quoted in the Guardian article that FD can't bring himself to read.

There is precisely zero evidence that it was caused by protestors. Thats the sensible person's answer to the question "did the protestors cause the second wave". But of course if you point this out to FD he accuses you of equating absense of evidence to evidence of absense, or some such nonsense.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Gazza

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #280 - Sep 16^th, 2020 at 1:01pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 16^th, 2020 at 10:15am:

There is evidence that the second wave was caused by quarantine bungling. See the expert testimony quoted in the Guardian article that FD can't bring himself to read.

There is precisely zero evidence that it was caused by protestors. Thats the sensible person's answer to the question "did the protestors cause the second wave". But of course if you point this out to FD he accuses you of equating absense of evidence to evidence of absense, or some such nonsense.

After Chairman Dan's refusal to share information on the medical advice and science used to back his decisions, his outright lies re curfew, and his obvious dislike of transparency and accountability, even the skeptics might wonder if certain evidence has been conveniently "disappeared", as they say in China.

Just because we are not seeing evidence does not mean it does not exist. At least anecdotally, us mere mortals can see the correlation between the sudden growth in new infections following the BLM protest, followed by the swat style lock-down of the towers, and then the potential link with hotel quarantine security staff. I say anecdotal, because that's all we've been given to go on...it's all been very hush-hush!

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The_Barnacle Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6205 Melbourne Gender:	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #281 - Sep 16^th, 2020 at 2:55pm Hey Freediver, do you have Fairies at the bottom of your Garden? remember sensible people know that equating absence of evidence with evidence of absence is a logical fallacy.
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 49862 Gender:	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #282 - Sep 16^th, 2020 at 3:33pm They may not have spread it. But they certainly jumped at the chance to.
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UnSubRocky Gold Member Offline Crocodile Hunter: Origins Posts: 25024 Rockhampton Gender:	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #283 - Sep 16^th, 2020 at 4:15pm https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/blood-tests-find-thousa... Quote: “This suggests that instead of 11,000 cases we know about from nasal swab testing, about 70,000 people had been exposed overall.” We may have reached my predictions sooner than I thought.
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freediver

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #284 - Sep 16^th, 2020 at 9:21pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 15^th, 2020 at 10:43am:

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:44pm:

I am asking a question Gandalf. Did the protestors spread the virus? You seem to think that not having evidence answers the question. Why is that?

Of course it answers the question FD. Just pause for a moment and consider how utterly absurd you are being in these four sentences.

If you really can't understand how pointing out the lack of evidence answers the question perfectly, then there's not much else I can do to help you. No wonder that you fumble around with completely inapropriate idiotic retorts like 'absense of evidence does not equate evidence of absense'. Presumably the only answer you would accept is one that is based on complete ignorance and without any basis in actual fact - you know like the BS you dish out on a daily basis.

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2020 at 6:44pm:

When was this place and time?

I'm not going to endlessly repeat myself just because you refuse to read and comprehend what I post.

Gandalf this is what you posted:

Quote:

The dummies version is that the strain that caused the second wave can be traced to a specific place and time - which given what and when this place and time actually was, absolutely does mean that the protestors almost certainly didn't spread it.

You have not posted this evidence before. Where is it?

All you have is baseless claims and no evidence. You seem to think both of these answer the question. Neither do. If you really do have the evidence to shut this question down, why are you afraid to post it?

It looks to me like you are merely so gullible that you believe what the Victorian government wants you to believe, without them even having to say it.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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