Australian Politics Forum - did the protestors spread the virus?

polite_gandalf

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #285 - Sep 17^th, 2020 at 9:17am

freediver wrote on Sep 16^th, 2020 at 9:21pm:

You have not posted this evidence before. Where is it?

Yes I have FD, repeatedly. I even started a thread about it. You just refuse to read it. But since I'm so nice and patient, I'll give you a hint to get you started: two hotels in Melbourne being used for quarantine.

freediver wrote on Sep 16^th, 2020 at 9:21pm:

It looks to me like you are merely so gullible that you believe what the Victorian government wants you to believe

As I have pointed out repeatedly, it is not coming from the government.

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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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The_Barnacle Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6205 Melbourne Gender:	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #286 - Sep 17^th, 2020 at 11:37am Freediver, how many times do you need to be told? There is no evidence that the protesters spread the virus There is plenty of evidence that poor Hotel Quarantine practices spread the virus
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Gazza

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #287 - Sep 17^th, 2020 at 12:23pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 11:37am:

Freediver, how many times do you need to be told?

There is no evidence that the protesters spread the virus
There is plenty of evidence that poor Hotel Quarantine practices spread the virus

"There is plenty of evidence that poor Hotel Quarantine practices spread the virus". Agree.

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FRED.

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #288 - Sep 17^th, 2020 at 12:31pm

Gazza wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 12:23pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 11:37am:

Freediver, how many times do you need to be told?

There is no evidence that the protesters spread the virus
There is plenty of evidence that poor Hotel Quarantine practices spread the virus

"There is plenty of evidence that poor Hotel Quarantine practices spread the virus". Agree.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) statistics
Victoria cases
Updated 17 Sep at 12:13 pm local
Confirmed
19,943
+32
Deaths
737
+8
Recovered
18,153
+74
Australia cases
Updated 17 Sep at 12:13 pm local
Confirmed
26,779
+41
Deaths
824
+8
Recovered
23,721
+74

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freediver

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #289 - Sep 17^th, 2020 at 6:36pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 11:37am:

Freediver, how many times do you need to be told?

There is no evidence that the protesters spread the virus
There is plenty of evidence that poor Hotel Quarantine practices spread the virus

I'll give you a quick lesson in logic Barny, as you have obviously missed the previous 20 or so pages. Neither of these is evidence that the protestors did not spread the virus.

Gandalf this is what you posted:

Quote:

The dummies version is that the strain that caused the second wave can be traced to a specific place and time - which given what and when this place and time actually was, absolutely does mean that the protestors almost certainly didn't spread it.

You have not posted this evidence before. Where is it? You have posted other evidence, but you keep running away from this particular claim, even though it appears to be the crux of your argument.

All you have is baseless claims and no evidence. You seem to think both of these answer the question. Neither do. If you really do have the evidence to shut this question down, why are you afraid to post it?

It looks to me like you are merely so gullible that you believe what the Victorian government wants you to believe, without them even having to say it.

As you both seem to have forgotten, this is the question: did the protestors spread the virus?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #290 - Sep 18^th, 2020 at 1:27pm

freediver wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 6:36pm:

I'll give you a quick lesson in logic Barny, as you have obviously missed the previous 20 or so pages. Neither of these is evidence that the protestors did not spread the virus.

clearly its you who needs lessons in logic. No one is required to prove a negative. I cannot fathom why you continually fall back on this non-logic.

freediver wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 6:36pm:

You have not posted this evidence before. Where is it? You have posted other evidence, but you keep running away from this particular claim

The Guardian article I posted was entirely about "tracing the second wave to a specific place and time."

The vast majority of the cases of Covid-19 in Victoria can be traced back to a single family that returned to Australia in mid-May who were kept in hotel quarantine at the Rydges Hotel, an inquiry has heard.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/aug/18/hotel-quarantine-linked-t...

That single case could be linked to an estimated 90% of cases since the end of May. Another 9% could be linked to another Hotel. All there in the article FD.

Read it, I dare you.

And yes, I accept your apology for making me repost things all because you can't be arsed reading the evidence the first 2 or 3 times I post it. What are the odds you'll ignore it this time and come back tomorrow wondering where my evidence is?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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The_Barnacle

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #291 - Sep 18^th, 2020 at 4:05pm

freediver wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 6:36pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 11:37am:

Freediver, how many times do you need to be told?

There is no evidence that the protesters spread the virus
There is plenty of evidence that poor Hotel Quarantine practices spread the virus

I'll give you a quick lesson in logic Barny, as you have obviously missed the previous 20 or so pages. Neither of these is evidence that the protestors did not spread the virus.

I haven't missed the previous 20 pages, it's just that you don't seem to understand that the onus of proof is on you.
It's up to you to provide evidence to support your claim.
You have failed to do so

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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

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freediver

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #292 - Sep 18^th, 2020 at 6:32pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 18^th, 2020 at 1:27pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 6:36pm:

I'll give you a quick lesson in logic Barny, as you have obviously missed the previous 20 or so pages. Neither of these is evidence that the protestors did not spread the virus.

clearly its you who needs lessons in logic. No one is required to prove a negative. I cannot fathom why you continually fall back on this non-logic.

freediver wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 6:36pm:

You have not posted this evidence before. Where is it? You have posted other evidence, but you keep running away from this particular claim

The Guardian article I posted was entirely about "tracing the second wave to a specific place and time."

The vast majority of the cases of Covid-19 in Victoria can be traced back to a single family that returned to Australia in mid-May who were kept in hotel quarantine at the Rydges Hotel, an inquiry has heard.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/aug/18/hotel-quarantine-linked-t...

That single case could be linked to an estimated 90% of cases since the end of May. Another 9% could be linked to another Hotel. All there in the article FD.

Read it, I dare you.

And yes, I accept your apology for making me repost things all because you can't be arsed reading the evidence the first 2 or 3 times I post it. What are the odds you'll ignore it this time and come back tomorrow wondering where my evidence is?

Gandalf this is what you posted:

Quote:

The dummies version is that the strain that caused the second wave can be traced to a specific place and time - which given what and when this place and time actually was, absolutely does mean that the protestors almost certainly didn't spread it.

You have not posted the evidence for this. Where is it? You keep running away from this particular claim, even though it appears to be the crux of your argument and the only claim relevant to the question at hand.

All you have is baseless claims and no evidence. You seem to think both of these answer the question. Neither do. If you really do have the evidence to shut this question down, why are you afraid to post it?

It looks to me like you are merely so gullible that you believe what the Victorian government wants you to believe, without them even having to say it.

As you seem to have forgotten, this is the question: did the protestors spread the virus?

Quote:

I haven't missed the previous 20 pages, it's just that you don't seem to understand that the onus of proof is on you.
It's up to you to provide evidence to support your claim.

What claim?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #293 - Sep 18^th, 2020 at 6:37pm Debating with FD. Good luck everyone.
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49502 At my desk.	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #294 - Sep 18^th, 2020 at 6:42pm You are failing at logic Gandalf. Can you explain why you think that is evidence for the claim you made about the protestors spreading the virus?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #295 - Sep 18^th, 2020 at 7:02pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 18^th, 2020 at 4:05pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 6:36pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 11:37am:

Freediver, how many times do you need to be told?

There is no evidence that the protesters spread the virus
There is plenty of evidence that poor Hotel Quarantine practices spread the virus

I'll give you a quick lesson in logic Barny, as you have obviously missed the previous 20 or so pages. Neither of these is evidence that the protestors did not spread the virus.

I haven't missed the previous 20 pages, it's just that you don't seem to understand that the onus of proof is on you.
It's up to you to provide evidence to support your claim.
You have failed to do so

In a discussion with FD that opens up by him asking if something, of which there is no evidence for, but which validates his world view happened, it can go one of two ways:

1. you say "yep, you bet!" - in which case you get a gold sticker, go to the top of the class, and join the illustrious ranks of those who 'stick it to the apologists'

2. you point out the simple fact that there is no evidence - in which case you are labelled as someone who equates absense of evidence with evidence of absense, and haughtily told you haven't proven it didn't happen - so there! - followed by 15 pages of endless waffling and deflection.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49502 At my desk.	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #296 - Sep 18^th, 2020 at 7:23pm Quote: you point out the simple fact that there is no evidence Have you changed your mind Gandalf?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #297 - Sep 18^th, 2020 at 7:36pm

freediver wrote on Sep 18^th, 2020 at 6:42pm:

You are failing at logic Gandalf. Can you explain why you think that is evidence for the claim you made about the protestors spreading the virus?

Little by little FD eventually reveals what the hell he is actually on about. I thought you were whinging about my claim about the origin and time of the start of the outbreak. If you meant the third claim about the protestors spreading the virus - why didn't you just say it in the first place? Why are you always so damned cryptic?

And to clarify, by "spread" I was talking about what was the origin of this second wave. Yes, it is conceivable that individual transmissions occurred between protestors at the protest, and the fact that the second wave started in hotel quarantine does not preclude the possibility of such individual transmissions. We just don't have any evidence that this happened. But we do have evidence that it was spread by people and gatherings that had nothing to do with the protest - such as at an abbattoirs and a school.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49502 At my desk.	Re: did the protestors spread the virus? Reply #298 - Sep 18^th, 2020 at 7:46pm How you could possibly be confused about what "spreading the virus" means?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: did the protestors spread the virus?
Reply #299 - Sep 18^th, 2020 at 7:56pm

How could you possibly object to the answer "there is no evidence" to the question "did the protestors spread the virus"?

How could you possibly accuse someone who gave that answer as equating absense of evidence with evidence of absense - with a straight face?

How could you possibly think that responding with "you haven't proven that it didn't happen" could ever be valid?

I wouldn't be pointing to any one elses lack of logic in this thread if I were you FD.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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