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Frank

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Re: Defund the UN
Reply #15 - Dec 27^th, 2023 at 11:26am

But let us imagine for a moment that the international community were to do something meaningful to end the war in Gaza, what would it be? At this point people start talking about the necessity of a UN peacekeeping mission and the like, whether in Gaza or the West Bank. And this is where the effects of the UN’s self-delegitimisation really kicks in. Because we know from Srebrenica that UN peacekeepers can be utterly useless at preventing violence. They can indeed (as the Dutch troops did then) stand by as unbelievable crimes are taking place.

Because the thing with peacekeepers is that they have to be willing to shoot. And which country’s soldiers are going to be prepared to fire in order to impose ‘peace’ on Gaza? Will Canadian troops be willing to threaten violence against Palestinians? Will German troops be ready to fire on Jews? Or should the various armies of Africa be given the task? Another problem thrown up by an entity [the UN] that has spent so many years trying to delegitimise Israel is that it doesn’t seem to have noticed that it has done a better job of -delegitimising itself.
Douglas Murray

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Belgarion

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Re: Defund the UN
Reply #16 - Dec 27^th, 2023 at 12:13pm

Frank wrote on Dec 27^th, 2023 at 11:26am:

But let us imagine for a moment that the international community were to do something meaningful to end the war in Gaza, what would it be? At this point people start talking about the necessity of a UN peacekeeping mission and the like, whether in Gaza or the West Bank. And this is where the effects of the UN’s self-delegitimisation really kicks in. Because we know from Srebrenica that UN peacekeepers can be utterly useless at preventing violence. They can indeed (as the Dutch troops did then) stand by as unbelievable crimes are taking place.

Because the thing with peacekeepers is that they have to be willing to shoot. And which country’s soldiers are going to be prepared to fire in order to impose ‘peace’ on Gaza? Will Canadian troops be willing to threaten violence against Palestinians? Will German troops be ready to fire on Jews? Or should the various armies of Africa be given the task? Another problem thrown up by an entity [the UN] that has spent so many years trying to delegitimise Israel is that it doesn’t seem to have noticed that it has done a better job of -delegitimising itself.
Douglas Murray

Excactly.

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Jasin

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Re: Defund the UN
Reply #17 - Dec 27^th, 2023 at 12:59pm

Belgarion wrote on Dec 27^th, 2023 at 12:13pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 27^th, 2023 at 11:26am:

But let us imagine for a moment that the international community were to do something meaningful to end the war in Gaza, what would it be? At this point people start talking about the necessity of a UN peacekeeping mission and the like, whether in Gaza or the West Bank. And this is where the effects of the UN’s self-delegitimisation really kicks in. Because we know from Srebrenica that UN peacekeepers can be utterly useless at preventing violence. They can indeed (as the Dutch troops did then) stand by as unbelievable crimes are taking place.

Because the thing with peacekeepers is that they have to be willing to shoot. And which country’s soldiers are going to be prepared to fire in order to impose ‘peace’ on Gaza? Will Canadian troops be willing to threaten violence against Palestinians? Will German troops be ready to fire on Jews? Or should the various armies of Africa be given the task? Another problem thrown up by an entity [the UN] that has spent so many years trying to delegitimise Israel is that it doesn’t seem to have noticed that it has done a better job of -delegitimising itself.
Douglas Murray

Excactly.

FD would ask you Belgarion "How green is your Cactus?" Cheesy

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Karnal

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Re: Defund the UN
Reply #18 - Dec 27^th, 2023 at 2:06pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 20^th, 2020 at 7:32pm:

Sack them, suffocate them, cut them off at the knees.

Defund them.

Good idea, Sprint. Defund them.

Then, we can ban them.

Kill them.

Cesterete them.

Still, we might find the UN comes in handy when the Chows get to work, no? First stop Taiwan, then onto the South China Sea, our major trade route with the world.

When this happens, I'd say we might miss the UN.

You?

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Frank

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Re: Defund the UN
Reply #19 - Dec 27^th, 2023 at 2:52pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 27^th, 2023 at 2:06pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 20^th, 2020 at 7:32pm:

Sack them, suffocate them, cut them off at the knees.

Defund them.

Good idea, Sprint. Defund them.

Then, we can ban them.

Kill them.

Cesterete them.

Still, we might find the UN comes in handy when the Chows get to work, no? First stop Taiwan, then onto the South China Sea, our major trade route with the world.

When this happens, I'd say we might miss the UN.

You?

You are talking bollocks as usual.
When did the UN prevent or stop ANY international conflict?

As the poet Dzhugashvili pointed out all these years ago, the UN has exactly the same number of divisions as the pope.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Defund the UN
Reply #20 - Dec 27^th, 2023 at 3:35pm

Frank wrote on Dec 27^th, 2023 at 2:52pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 27^th, 2023 at 2:06pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 20^th, 2020 at 7:32pm:

Sack them, suffocate them, cut them off at the knees.

Defund them.

Good idea, Sprint. Defund them.

Then, we can ban them.

Kill them.

Cesterete them.

Still, we might find the UN comes in handy when the Chows get to work, no? First stop Taiwan, then onto the South China Sea, our major trade route with the world.

When this happens, I'd say we might miss the UN.

You?

You are talking bollocks as usual.
When did the UN prevent or stop ANY international conflict?

As the poet Dzhugashvili pointed out all these years ago, the UN has exactly the same number of divisions as the pope.

I've explained it many times, Lizard brain:

The UN was neutered when the US and USSR - victors in WW2, but opponents in economic ideology - demanded access to the veto.

You can't have rule of law if the justices have a veto....

..so... back to war, you lizard brains.

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« Last Edit: Dec 27^th, 2023 at 3:41pm by thegreatdivide »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Defund the UN
Reply #21 - Dec 27^th, 2023 at 4:31pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 11:32pm:

but...... but..... but.... but.......

oh dear, here comes the lizard brain in all its exquisite psychosis...

Quote:

the great divide wants us to surrender our personal and national sovereignty to the UN Security Council

1. You already "surrender your 'personal sovereignty'" when you accept citizenship of your nation, and abide by the laws of the land as determined by the legislature and judiciary.

2. As for national sovereignty, it's an ancient and obsolete concept based on lizard-brain competition and might is right, no longer fit for purpose in the age of MAD and global economic/environmental crises.

Listen up: the outlawing of war as a means of dispute settlement between nations will not impinge on your "personal sovereignty", any more than your national government already does.....

Hint: international law removes the need to die defending the 'freedom or death' psychosis, in reaction to some other nut-job's 'freedom or death' psychosis.

Quote:

so that peace can prevail worldwide via their invading and taming any who disagree....

Nah...everyone wants peace, wellbeing and security, only nut jobs want to die - or rather (hopefully as they see it) murder - for their preferred ideology.

Quote:

he wants to force peace on the planet even if it kills everyone on it in the wars necessary to bring about peace....

See above; you would be surprised by the number of people who would prefer life and peace to freedom or death .

Quote:

then the trials of any dissenters - traitors to the cause of world peace - can go forward and they be... disposed of..... liquidated as enemies of humanity...

The "dissenters" would be laughed out of court for the fools they are... of course war doesn't "defend humanity", it kills - possibly in a very big bang.....

Quote:

Can't see the Afghans accepting that one ...

We were close in 1946; if we had got international law back then, the Afghans would be prospering now.

Quote:

and I mean ... divide is fighting for the right of our Cheers here to their 'sovereignty'

At least don't misrepresent my position; you well know I despise "culture" and "sovereignty" when they override universal well-being and security.

Quote:

while at the same time telling us that sovereignty - personal and national - is an outworn and neoliberal thing that keeps us all in chains...

All fully examined and explained above...NOW do you understand? (cough...)

Quote:

Funny guy .... can't tell if he's Arfur or Marfa ....

..says the guy who thinks he's "free" because he thinks he can change the laws of his own nation...when in fact he needs 50% + 1 of his compatriots to change the law -to maximise his own self-interested ideas on wellbeing and "freedom".

Quote:

This is a classic 1984 scenario ...... North Korea will disarm the world for you..... and keep enough arms to make sure you carry out your orders fully - or else!!!
Grin

That fell flat; only the UNSC would have access to nuclear arms, under international law dedicated to maintaining universal peace, well-being and security, as per the articles of the UNUDHR.

Note: national governments would still have to deal with the trouble makers in their OWN nations... which is why YOUR "freedom" is already limited by law.

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« Last Edit: Dec 27^th, 2023 at 4:46pm by thegreatdivide »

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Frank

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Re: Defund the UN
Reply #22 - Dec 27^th, 2023 at 4:35pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27^th, 2023 at 3:35pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 27^th, 2023 at 2:52pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 27^th, 2023 at 2:06pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 20^th, 2020 at 7:32pm:

Sack them, suffocate them, cut them off at the knees.

Defund them.

Good idea, Sprint. Defund them.

Then, we can ban them.

Kill them.

Cesterete them.

Still, we might find the UN comes in handy when the Chows get to work, no? First stop Taiwan, then onto the South China Sea, our major trade route with the world.

When this happens, I'd say we might miss the UN.

You?

You are talking bollocks as usual.
When did the UN prevent or stop ANY international conflict?

As the poet Dzhugashvili pointed out all these years ago, the UN has exactly the same number of divisions as the pope.

I've explained it many times, Lizard brain:

The UN was neutered when the US and USSR - victors in WW2, but opponents in economic ideology - demanded access to the veto.

You can't have rule of law if the justices have a veto....

..so... back to war, you lizard brains.

What I like about you parrot is that you are so reliably, consistently stupid. You will never be caught saying something intelligent, coherent, sensible.

". Because we know from Srebrenica that UN peacekeepers can be utterly useless at preventing violence. They can indeed (as the Dutch troops did then) stand by as unbelievable crimes are taking place."

Which veto power prevented the UN peacekeepers from keeping the peace? What WAS the point of them being there?

The rule of law is meaningless without the power to enforce the law. The UN cannot enforce anything, certainly not peace or prevent an aggressor from being aggressive.

‘Rape capital of the world’
Fuelled by extremely high levels of poverty, displacement and a lack of effective judicial systems, DRC has the highest number of allegations of UN peacekeeper-perpetrated sexual exploitation and abuse of any country in the world (about a third of all such allegations since the turn of the century). Yet no systematic research on paternity claims linked to Monusco (the current UN mission in DRC, which took over from the previous mission in 2010) has existed until now.

DRC is the epitome of a war-torn country with a thriving peacekeeping sex economy.

Now there's a phrase pointing to the good works of the UN: creating "thriving peacekeeper sex economies."
How good is the UN??!!

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Defund the UN
Reply #23 - Dec 27^th, 2023 at 5:12pm

Frank wrote on Dec 27^th, 2023 at 4:35pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 27^th, 2023 at 3:35pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 27^th, 2023 at 2:52pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 27^th, 2023 at 2:06pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 20^th, 2020 at 7:32pm:

Sack them, suffocate them, cut them off at the knees.

Defund them.

Good idea, Sprint. Defund them.

Then, we can ban them.

Kill them.

Cesterete them.

Still, we might find the UN comes in handy when the Chows get to work, no? First stop Taiwan, then onto the South China Sea, our major trade route with the world.

When this happens, I'd say we might miss the UN.

You?

You are talking bollocks as usual.
When did the UN prevent or stop ANY international conflict?

As the poet Dzhugashvili pointed out all these years ago, the UN has exactly the same number of divisions as the pope.

I've explained it many times, Lizard brain:

The UN was neutered when the US and USSR - victors in WW2, but opponents in economic ideology - demanded access to the veto.

You can't have rule of law if the justices have a veto....

..so... back to war, you lizard brains.

What I like about you parrot is that you are so reliably, consistently stupid. You will never be caught saying something intelligent, coherent, sensible.

Er... Frank...ok: now let's read on, to (hopefully) learn from your intelligence, rationality, and wisdom......

Quote:

". Because we know from Srebrenica that UN peacekeepers can be utterly useless at preventing violence. They can indeed (as the Dutch troops did then) stand by as unbelievable crimes are taking place."

Of course, BECAUSE the UN was neutered by the UNSC veto in 1946, and was therefore rendered unable to adjudicate the following ideology-based conflicts thereafter, especially those conflicts which divided the UNSC.

Note: the UN voted for the Palestine partition plan, but the UNSC could not defend the plan because 'national soveignty' was held to be above international law.

The disintegration of Yugoslavia was part of an ideological dispute; sticking a few hundred soldiers between the warring sides doesn't cut the mustard.

Quote:

Which veto power prevented the UN peacekeepers from keeping the peace? What WAS the point of them being there?

1. The veto power which allows nations to go to war.....

2. The point was to try to show the UN could defend peace (and have relevance), while simultaneously accepting the insane concept of 'legal' war. It's impossible.

Quote:

The rule of law is meaningless without the power to enforce the law.

Correct.

Quote:

The UN cannot enforce anything, certainly not peace or prevent an aggressor from being aggressive.

Correct.

So...any ideas on how the UN could be instituted to defend the peace? (cough...)

Quote:

‘Rape capital of the world’
Fuelled by extremely high levels of poverty, displacement and a lack of effective judicial systems, DRC has the highest number of allegations of UN peacekeeper-perpetrated sexual exploitation and abuse of any country in the world (about a third of all such allegations since the turn of the century). Yet no systematic research on paternity claims linked to Monusco (the current UN mission in DRC, which took over from the previous mission in 2010) has existed until now.

DRC is the epitome of a war-torn country with a thriving peacekeeping sex economy.

Now there's a phrase pointing to the good works of the UN: creating "thriving peacekeeper sex economies."
How good is the UN??!!

Indeed; a total failure.

So...back to war you go, lizard brain....

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Jasin

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Re: Defund the UN
Reply #24 - Dec 27^th, 2023 at 5:39pm

If there was no United Nations, League of Nations, Federation of Nations, etc.
The World would be far worse off.
It's not perfect. Nor will it, until the World's nations figure all themselves out to their true natures.
But progress is being made.
Just because a World War is around the corner, it isn't because of the failure of the United Nations.
There will be many World Wars to come.
But 'anything' that represents a Collective of the whole of the nations on this little world, is better than nothing at all.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Frank

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Re: Defund the UN
Reply #25 - Mar 30^th, 2024 at 4:43pm

The UN’s Commission on the Status of Women (CSW) unanimously appointed Saudi Arabia to chair its 69th session in 2025, according to the Saudi Arabia Mission to the UN. Saudi ambassador to the UN, Abdulaziz Alwasil, was elected as chair Wednesday.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/28/middleeast/saudi-arabia-chair-un-gender-equal...

The UN is a scam and a sham.

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chimera Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 11500 armidale Gender:	Re: Defund the UN Reply #26 - Mar 30^th, 2024 at 4:46pm Saudi Arabia. a nation [/] member of UN [/] has women [/] is on Commission of Status of Women [/] Christian colony of Charles Windsor [x]
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Belgarion

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Re: Defund the UN
Reply #27 - Mar 30^th, 2024 at 7:31pm

Frank wrote on Mar 30^th, 2024 at 4:43pm:

The UN’s Commission on the Status of Women (CSW) unanimously appointed Saudi Arabia to chair its 69th session in 2025, according to the Saudi Arabia Mission to the UN. Saudi ambassador to the UN, Abdulaziz Alwasil, was elected as chair Wednesday.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/28/middleeast/saudi-arabia-chair-un-gender-equal...

The UN is a scam and a sham.

You could not make this poo up! The UN is well past its use by date.

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

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chimera Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 11500 armidale Gender:	Re: Defund the UN Reply #28 - Mar 30^th, 2024 at 7:41pm If there are women in Saudi, then they have a certain status. it's as legal as the status in Australia or Paraguay. If fringe twits are elected to Canberra and so on, they are elected equally with the other humans, by people equal to you.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Defund the UN
Reply #29 - Mar 31^st, 2024 at 11:11am

Frank wrote on Mar 30^th, 2024 at 4:43pm:

The UN’s Commission on the Status of Women (CSW) unanimously appointed Saudi Arabia to chair its 69th session in 2025, according to the Saudi Arabia Mission to the UN. Saudi ambassador to the UN, Abdulaziz Alwasil, was elected as chair Wednesday.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/28/middleeast/saudi-arabia-chair-un-gender-equal...

The UN is a scam and a sham.

All previously explained to you (and graps), lizard brain.

Anyone for effective international law which can defend the principles of the UNUDHR?

No? Lizard brain says no?

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