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Will the bottom fall out of home solar ? (Read 10186 times)

juliar

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Will the bottom fall out of home solar ?
Jul 17^th, 2020 at 7:40pm

Oh dear won't the home solar Fans be annoyed!!

A house with solar creates a high voltage on the mains that damages appliances in neighboring houses.

Cheaper electricity—the eternal dream!
AMM 17.07.19.

It has been edging forward for some time. Especially after the ‘really great deals’ that lured the masses to uptake solar installations.

Be independent, save wads of money, even sell your generated power back to the energy provider—how sweet it was! As it is the energy provider, no, not you, that sets the price of electricity they now intend to reap your rewards. See how they will do it!

Householders with rooftop solar panels and batteries have reacted with fury to proposals which could see them charged for exporting power to the electricity grid.

Over the past decade, state governments have actively incentivized households to feed their solar into the grid, by offering generous feed-in tariff schemes.

Most have now closed to new entrants. But now, welfare groups and transmission company SA Power Networks have asked the Australian Energy Markets Commission to change market rules to impose a charge on household exporters.

https://morningmail.org/cheaper-electricity-the-eternal-dream/#more-118870

Rooftop solar panel owners could be getting charged fees to sell energy back to the grid
Source: ABC

They argue that under the current system, households without solar could be unfairly burdened with the cost of augmenting power networks to cope with the increase of new panels, which is already placing a strain on the network in states with heavy solar penetration like South Australia.

SA Power Networks spokesman Paul Roberts said the state’s grid is already reaching its capacity to support household solar networks.

“Actual customers themselves are seeing that their inverters are turning off at times because of voltage rising in the network,” Mr Roberts told ABC Radio Adelaide.

“And the renewables industry is getting concerned that networks like ours will have to impose zero limits on new customers so that we can accept those customers, but they won’t be able to export.

“So there needs to be a solution to that.”

Mr Roberts said SAPN’s proposal would likely see $10-$30 added to the annual electricity bill of a solar customer, and would not change the overall amount of money that the company was allowed to charge customers.

He said the current proposal would see existing solar customers excluded from paying, but conceded that could change.

Solar owners furious
The idea has drawn a furious response from many solar panel owners, including Adelaide man Michael Preus.
“People will just disconnect them, and tell them to get stuffed, that’s what I would do,” he said.

Mr Preus said he had installed his household solar PV system to save money and help the environment, but was now questioning his investment.

“We’ll never, ever in our lifetime recoup our investment, the return is just not there.”

But welfare groups including the Australian Council of Social Service and St Vincent de Paul Society are backing the move to charge people who export power.

SA Council of Social Service Chief Executive Ross Womersley said without change, households who cannot afford solar could be unfairly penalised for the cost of maintaining electricity supply.

“Those non-solar households that don’t have the benefits of solar will be left holding the grid and bearing the additional cost,” he said.

SA Power Networks spokesman Paul Roberts likened the charge to proposals to taxing electric vehicles, which are not contributing to petrol excise.

“Governments are really thinking about how are we going to get people who buy electric vehicles to contribute to road funding,” he said.

“And in the same way, I think we should be thinking about that for solar customers.”

The Grattan Institute’s Director of Energy Tony Wood said the problem should have been fixed years ago.

“We should have got this right in the first place,” he said.
“It does seem fair that you should pay for the use of that grid, otherwise the people who are not using solar are effectively subsidising your solar system.
“They’re not doing it deliberately.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-16/rooftop-solar-owners-could-be-charged-to-...

« Last Edit: Jul 18^th, 2020 at 9:15am by juliar »

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juliar

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Re: Will the bottom fall out of home solar ?
Reply #1 - Jul 17^th, 2020 at 7:44pm

A few good comments from the bloke in the street

Disgruntled 17/07/2020, 7:12 am
(“It does seem fair that you should pay for the use of that grid, otherwise the people who are not using solar are effectively subsidising your solar system.)

Too high a voltage is as bad as too low a voltage and solar with it’s on and off apparently causes headaches for the electricity system managers. as well as very high costs to overcome.

The high cost of upgrades to the supply infrastructure is one reason for the concern; panel owners get away free here and non-owners pay up with the high cost of the upgrades needed for some of their installations of solar systems.

Some few years ago I had a good talk to a chap who worked in the electrical “poles and wires etc.”area. He told me of one instance where the electrical supply mob would have been better off financially by supplying free electricity to one installation for life than doing the upgrades needed for that particular installation to be able to use solar.

Another instance was where there was a small block “farm” with 2 houses and a shed and 3 free standing panel units were installed. The upgrade cost was not a lot short of 20 grand and guess what; the cost was covered by the system users, not the panel owners; and the panel owners reaped the benefit of cheaper electricity as well as the increased feed back returns. A win win for the panel owners and a lose lose for everyone else.

This obscene situation needs to change and it is time for the panel owners to pull their weight instead of sucking up their benefits from the non panel owners.

The govt at the time should have seen the problems coming before they got so generous and acted accordingly. Hey?; how many times do govts ever get it right before acting? And now panel owners think it is their god given right to get as many subsidies as they possibly can scrounge up!! AND I have heard of a couple instances where some are rumoured to be “working” the system for a good financial advantage.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-16/rooftop-solar-owners-could-be-charged-to-sell-energy-to-the-grid/12461748

another link to use up a bit of time at.
https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/03/the-ugly-side-o.html

Bwana Neusi 17/07/2020, 3:03 pm
And may well you be Disgruntled! The utopian dream of unlimited free electricity to replace all those smelly CO2 belching power stations is just round the corner – or so the green dream goes.
SA is first can off the rank to reach a level where solar and wind generation can exceed demand and stuff voltages through the roof, whilst power stations still have to run spinning reserves in case of a downturn.
We have solar panels and we export to the grid and collect a feed in tariff (until the end of this month).
When governments decide to slug us for their poor thinking, we will install batteries and use and save our own power. Simples!

luk1955 17/07/2020, 7:42 am
When solar first came out I argued this to no avail. That it would discriminate against the people least able to afford the solar panels. The solar panels feed electrical spikes into the grid past the generator supply that cannot be filtered out, and this may be causing the high failure rate of modern whitegoods. I am seeing a lot of 3-6 year old whitegoods coming into the scrap area of the retailer I work for, and not all can be due to 3rd world manufacturing standards. And I have noticed a big increase in just the last 3 years.

wal1957 17/07/2020, 11:25 am
“When solar first came out I argued this to no avail. That it would discriminate against the people least able to afford the solar panels.”
I did as well Luk. Alas, all I received in return were blank stares.
It is the same look I get if I bring up the subject of nuclear power when people are so concerned about CO2 emissions.
BTW, they always say ‘carbon’ emissions because they have not a clue what they are talking about.

Neville 17/07/2020, 6:07 pm
Disagree slightly, Wal. They know EXACTLY what they’re talking about; the goal is to catch-up ALL gases that contain carbon in the molecule. Gives the lefties a bigger club to beat people into submission, you see!

Cliff 17/07/2020, 8:52 am
Another ‘run’ to add to Malcolm Turnbull’s ‘score’?

DT 17/07/2020, 10:55 am
Howard Government Minister Mansion did claim that electricity in Australia (and water) is too cheap, and that dams were no damn good and desalination plants are a better alternative.
Renewables transition into poverty for the nation.

Penguinite 17/07/2020, 9:17 am
“people who are not using solar are effectively subsidising your solar system.”
This none believer has been saying that for at least 15 years. How about the irony of a Mr Prius objecting to the idea.

Lorraine 17/07/2020, 10:49 am
As you say , that is the reason I installed solar on my garage roof, you do save a little bit on feed in , but you gain that little bit of “I am not paying to others”

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juliar

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Re: Will the bottom fall out of home solar ?
Reply #2 - Jul 17^th, 2020 at 7:47pm

A few more comments

DT 17/07/2020, 11:09 am
Like with wind turbines solar is a not cost effective exercise in futility that would not be considered without taxpayer via government special specific subsidies.

And how many domestic rooftop solar owners complete a cost-benefit analysis, most I believe are convinced by clever sales and marketing.

With a deteriorating performance over the effective working life of up to 25 years, often much less, for example I have read reports on solar panel powered water pumps on cattle stations, solar panels lasting less than 10 years. Therefore there is a replacement cost to consider. There is a funding cost even if the owner pays cash the funds can no longer be invested. Etc.

On the other businesses can write off the costs against taxable income.

Solar can only provide energy for roughly half of every twenty four hours, and best on perfect days between 10 am and 2 pm. So the rating of solar must be based on effective operating periods, not “nameplate” capacity.

Of course a hybrid system of combined solar, batteries and diesel/petrol generator (even add a small wind turbine) will support a small grid, as on King Island in Bass Strait, but the fact is that even with the now world’s highest electricity prices connection to the electricity grid remains the better option when available.

To consider that our world’s largest interconnected electricity grid could maintain essential baseload with wind, solar and batteries is ridiculous.

Diesel or gas fuelled back up generators are necessary, and on the Australian grid example baseload generators in power stations are never using known technology going to be eliminated.

DT 17/07/2020, 11:20 am
Solar Owners in South Australia are furious that they might be charged to sell back to the grid. They are used to getting all the transmission lines and power plants for free.

The awful truth:

Mr Preus said he had installed his household solar PV system to save money and help the environment, but was now questioning his investment.

“We’ll never, ever in our lifetime recoup our investment, the return is just not there.”

“People will just disconnect them, and tell them to get stuffed, that’s what I would do,” he said.

They’ve been sold a lemon: misled into believing the energy the panels made was useful and economic. Instead solar owners without batteries can only provide excess energy no one needs at lunchtime. Lunchtime voltages are surging and their inverters are tripping off anyhow. And they themselves need to be hooked up to the grid to get the electro-juice they want, most hours of the day.

Finally there is some attempt to fix the Soviet-level planning disaster. People are just starting to notice that the poor are paying for the networks to supply the rich.

But the call to charge them comes from welfare groups:

Householders with rooftop solar panels and batteries have reacted with fury to proposals which could see them charged for exporting power to the electricity grid.

But now, welfare groups and transmission company SA Power Networks have asked the Australian Energy Markets Commission to change market rules to impose a charge on household exporters.

They argue that under the current system, households without solar could be unfairly burdened with the cost of augmenting power networks to cope with the increase of new panels,

But those wanting to change the rules have to make a very good case, or the anger and righteous indignance will stop the rule change. To that end, the phrase “free ride” is a good start.

This fee supposedly adds $20 – $30 dollars a year. A pittance compared to the damage bill.

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Setanta Gold Member Offline \/ Peace man! Posts: 16429 Northern NSW Gender:	Re: Will the bottom fall out of home solar ? Reply #3 - Jul 18^th, 2020 at 12:22am We are already taxed for the grid, look on your electricity bill, you are not just paying for power. Are power generating companies taxed for using the grid? The feed in tariff is less than half of what the power is sold for. I guess pay per post is not earning you enough to afford PV, Julia.
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juliar

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Re: Will the bottom fall out of home solar ?
Reply #4 - Jul 18^th, 2020 at 9:14am

Nothing like a dyed in the wool hard core Solar Fan Boy splattering his neighbors' appliances with excess voltage leading to premature failure.

Just think of all that Woke Greeny hypocrisy going to waste. Another impractical Greeny scheme fails.

Energy operator wants to remotely switch off rooftop solar systems amid 'uncontrolled growth'
By Nick Harmsen Posted ThuThursday 30 AprApril 2020 at 4:01pm

Close up of solar panels.. The AEMO is considering restrictions on rooftop solar power systems.(ABC News: Jake Evans)

Australia's electricity grid operator wants the power to remotely switch off or constrain the output of new rooftop solar systems, as it finds ways to manage South Australia's world-leading levels of "invisible and uncontrolled" solar output.

Key points:
Up to 85 per cent of SA's power demand could be met by solar by 2025
This high reliance poses challenges to the security of the grid
Requirements on new solar systems are being looked at to manage the growth

The recommendation is contained in a new report by the Australian Energy Market Operator, which sets out how it will manage the grid up to 2025.

At times, as much as 75 per cent of Australia's energy is forecast to be provided by wind and solar.

The report shows at certain points last year, 64 per cent of South Australia's power demand was met by rooftop solar alone.

AEMO's forecasts show that figure could grow as high 85 per cent by 2025, with rooftop solar also tipped to dominate supply at times in in Victoria (up to 66 per cent), Queensland (57 per cent) and New South Wales (48 per cent).

But the runaway success of solar power poses serious challenges for the security of the grid, because it operates "behind-the-meter", out of control of the authorities.

To manage the growth, AEMO is looking to impose requirements on new solar systems in South Australia to enable "generation-shedding capabilities" as soon as possible.

By 2025, up to 85 per cent of the state's power demand could be met by solar at certain times.(Infinity Solar)

Other states and territories will be encouraged to adopt a similar approach.

While the use of batteries might help the market operator avoid powering down household rooftop systems, it describes the ability to remotely control panels as an essential "back-stop".

AEMO's managing director Audrey Ziebelman says the study makes clear that the current approaches used to manage the electricity market are becoming less effective as the grid continues its transformation to world-leading levels of renewable generation.

"Australia already has the technical capability to safely operate a power system where three quarters of our energy at times comes from wind and solar energy generation," Ms Ziebelman said.

"However, to do so requires changes in our markets and regulatory requirements, otherwise, AEMO will be required to limit the contribution of these wind and solar resources to 50 or 60 per cent of electricity supply at any point in time, even though they are the lowest cost way of providing electricity."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-30/grid-operator-looks-to-manage-solar-power...

« Last Edit: Jul 18^th, 2020 at 9:21am by juliar »

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74144 Gender:	Re: Will the bottom fall out of home solar ? Reply #5 - Jul 18^th, 2020 at 9:20am What a load of crap. Big business once again trying to rip of consumers ... and the dickheads in govt. will let them
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juliar

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Re: Will the bottom fall out of home solar ?
Reply #6 - Jul 18^th, 2020 at 9:32am

Mr Smith rushes in with the Lefties' standard solution to everything - DENY IT ALL!!!!

SA has proved the impractical Greeny schemes are a failure. Wonder how much the freeloader solar owners will be hit with now for supplying useless energy ?

Concerns over plan to switch off household solar panels when grid is unstable
7.30 / By Ange Donnellan Posted Wed 20 May 2020 at 5:22pm, updated Wed 20 May 2020 at 6:24pm

Thanasis Avramis has rooftop solar panels and is not pleased about AEMO's proposal.(ABC News: Carl Saville)

Thanasis Avramis has been an advocate of solar panels since he had them installed in 2008.

Key points:
The Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) wants the ability to switch off household solar systems
AEMO says the measure would only be needed in emergencies to stabilise grid
Thanasis Avramis says it would make "Australian families pay for the mistakes of others"

He is not happy with a new proposal from authorities to switch off or constrain output from household solar systems as an emergency measure to stabilise the nation's electricity grid.

"In the last 12 years we've probably earned about $9,000 worth of feed-in tariff. That's been a very substantial reduction in the cost of our electricity," Mr Avramis told 7.30.

"The default position has often been to force a solution on Australian families for problems that are the fault of the network as a whole — and the regulator, and the many particular governments at one time or another that have not been able to plan properly."

Australia is leading the world in per capita growth of rooftop solar, with new panels installed about every six and a half minutes.

A workman carries a solar panel on a rooftop.. Australia's love for solar panels is sometimes leading to grid instability.(ABC News)

Since 2010, the number of panels across the nation has grown from 100,000 to 2.2 million.

But the proliferation is at times leading to grid instability, prompting the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) to call for the switch-off measure.

AEMO CEO Audrey Zibelman said it would only be used in emergencies if the grid became overwhelmed.

"This is very temporary, very limited and really, what we would say, a last resort control we need if we were worried the system would otherwise go black," Ms Zibelman told 7.30.

"When we have way too much solar there's so little load we can't even manage to keep the balance with the generators, and in that context there's always a risk that the system could fail and will go black."

Changes to affect new solar systems
Households installing solar in the future would be affected by the measure through new inverter standards.

So-called "smart inverters" have software that can be externally controlled.

AEMO said existing panel owners would not be asked to retrofit their systems but they would be caught up in the changes if their inverter needed replacement. The lifespan of an inverter is about 10 years.

"What we're looking at is for people to put in these smart inverters and to have standards in place so we could do it now. We have to take these actions in the next few years. This is not something we can wait on," Ms Zibelman said.

If solar panels were switched off by the electricity distributor, households could still draw electricity from the grid.

"When the inverter operates to disconnect from the power system the solar stops operating. As people are looking at smart integrated systems with batteries, the expectation is that the batteries would serve as a backup," she said.

AEMO said too much solar was an issue when demand for electricity was low.

In South Australia last spring, minimum demand records were repeatedly broken in the middle of the day amid mild sunny conditions, including on November 10 when rooftop solar peaked at 64 per cent of the state's energy needs.

Solar operates "behind the meter" or out of control of the authorities. As the level of solar is unpredictable it poses challenges for frequency and voltage. AEMO said South Australia was particularly at risk if it became disconnected from the national electricity grid.

"We don't have visibility in the sense we don't know it's [solar] going to be there. It makes the operation of the system harder for us," Ms Zibelman told 7.30.

"It's almost like driving without your headlights."

By 2025 renewable energy is predicted to supply up to 75 per cent of the nation's power.

"We wouldn't want a situation where we have these systems create an issue, where we lose the entirety of the power system and it goes black for a long time. I think everyone would agree that's not an outcome we would want," Ms Zibelman said.

"Rooftop solar is such an important part of the system now we need to make sure it works."

The proposed changes could prompt some people to go off-grid, says Thanasis Avramis.(ABC News)
Energy analyst Bruce Mountain said solar helped keep prices down.

Read a bit more here

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-20/concerns-over-plan-to-switch-off-househol...

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Bobby.

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Re: Will the bottom fall out of home solar ?
Reply #7 - Jul 18^th, 2020 at 9:33am

Setanta wrote on Jul 18^th, 2020 at 12:22am:

We are already taxed for the grid, look on your electricity bill, you are not just paying for power. Are power generating companies taxed for using the grid? The feed in tariff is less than half of what the power is sold for.

I guess pay per post is not earning you enough to afford PV, Julia.

$5 per post is a good earner.

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juliar

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Re: Will the bottom fall out of home solar ?
Reply #8 - Jul 18^th, 2020 at 9:40am

It is looking pretty bleak for all those solar Fan Boys freeloading now that WA is also going to chop off home solar freeloaders.

Authorities look to control household rooftop solar power systems to stabilize the grid
By Daniel Mercer Posted Sun 8 Dec 2019 at 6:21am, updated Mon 9 Decr 2019 at 1:00am

The body that runs WA's main electricity market wants the ability to remotely dump excess solar power from households — cutting the bill rebates people receive — to safeguard the grid from surging levels of renewable energy and avoid rolling power cuts.

Key points:
Too much solar power in WA is threatening the stability of the electricity grid
The market operator wants the ability to control households' solar power input
The alternative is potentially rolling power cuts to avoid the grid overloading

Audrey Zibelman, the chief executive of the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO), said so-called smart inverters would be crucial to ensuring the rise of rooftop solar did not overwhelm the stability of the power network.

The call has been backed by the WA Government and Energy Minister Bill Johnston said having a better insight into and control over the output from rooftop solar was vital.

It comes following warnings from AEMO that WA's biggest power system — the wholesale electricity market — risked becoming unstable within a few years because of the runaway take-up of solar panels.

Ms Zibelman said the switch to renewable energy by growing numbers of households and businesses was unlikely to stop and it was incumbent on authorities to ensure the transition was managed carefully.

A key part of this process was smart inverters, which would enable AEMO to "spill" excess power generated from rooftop solar panels at times when the network was coming under stress.

It is understood the devices have been progressively rolled out thanks to an industry agreement in 2017, but Ms Zibelman said their integration should be fast-tracked.

At the moment, households can freely export any surplus power produced from their solar panels into the grid, with state-owned power provider Synergy paying a minimum subsidy of 7.1 cents per unit.

But AEMO has warned such uncontrolled input of solar power placed great stress on the coal- and gas-fired power stations responsible for keeping the grid stable.

Problem arises from solar's success
Ms Zibelman said the arrangement was not a problem back when there were relatively small numbers of solar panels on the system.

But she said it had become a significant liability for the security of the electricity system now that almost one in three homes on WA's south-west grid had solar panels.

There are almost 300,000 households in the network with photovoltaic (PV) cells, which have a combined capacity of more than 1,000 megawatts.

By comparison, the biggest generator on the system is the 854MW Muja coal-fired power station at Collie in the state's South West.

The Muja power station is contracted to buy coal from Premier until 2030.. The biggest generator on the system is the Muja coal-fired power station.(ABC News: Eliza Borrello)

"When you had maybe 1 or 2 per cent of the population putting on rooftop solar, we don't really worry if there are solar units there or not," Ms Zibelman said.

"But when you have as many as we have, we need to be able to see it.

"We need to be able to anticipate how that solar is going to respond, and where it's going to respond, so we can be ready as a real-time system."

When high solar output meets low demand
Central to the technical challenge posed by solar is its effect on demand from the grid during the middle of the day.

These challenges tended to be most acute when high levels of solar output coincided with low levels of demand — typically on mild, sunny days in spring or autumn when people were not using their air conditioners.

In such circumstances, AEMO has warned solar was hollowing out demand from the grid to such an extent that base-load generators such as coal-fired plants were struggling to operate safely.

Authorities were managing the situation by requiring base-load generators responsible for the stability of the grid to scale back or even switch off production, but AEMO said this was increasingly a risk to the security of the system.

AEMO warned allowing demand from the grid to fall below 700MW could trigger widescale blackouts by 2022.

Rolling power cuts to keep system stable
Alternatively, AEMO warned it may have resort to "load shedding" — or rolling power restrictions across entire areas — to avoid production from solar panels overwhelming the grid.

Ms Zibelman said batteries, including large-scale storage facilities, would help balance the system in the future, but AEMO needed other short-term options at its disposal.

Read on here

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-08/authorities-look-to-control-house-rooftop...

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74144 Gender:	Re: Will the bottom fall out of home solar ? Reply #9 - Jul 18^th, 2020 at 9:44am As soon as batteries get a little cheaper the gov. and the energy companies can all go fuq themselves. I'll be totally off grid and they can cut the line to my house altogether.
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Redmond Neck Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 21434 ACT Gender:	Re: Will the bottom fall out of home solar ? Reply #10 - Jul 18^th, 2020 at 9:51am This was always on the cards, one cant keep having more power being back fed into the network without smacking the network up.
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Bobby.

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Re: Will the bottom fall out of home solar ?
Reply #11 - Jul 18^th, 2020 at 9:56am

Redmond Neck wrote on Jul 18^th, 2020 at 9:51am:

This was always on the cards, one cant keep having more power being back fed into the network without smacking the network up.

There needs to be a way to absorb then reuse that power.
One way is batteries but a better way to store
more power is to pump water uphill to a reservoir
and then release the energy through turbines
when needed.

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juliar

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Re: Will the bottom fall out of home solar ?
Reply #12 - Jul 18^th, 2020 at 10:17am

All that money tied up in useless stuff on your roof that you are now going to be charged for because you are upsetting the network.

What is urgently needed is HUGE Hydrogen Energy Storage to sop up the excess energy. Come on the Hydrogen Energy Revolution and make Australia fuel independent.

WA Parliament microgrid report fails to address how to fix our solar power network
By Daniel Mercer Posted Thu 20 Feb 2020 at 6:40pm, updated Thu 20 Feb 2020 at 8:29pm

Solar households are paid 7.1 cents per unit of electricity they pump back into the grid.(ABC News: Jerry Rickard)

In the debate about creating the renewable electricity system, actions as well as words are often driven by what feels right, or even what feels good.

People like renewable energy, for the most part, and images of wind turbines and sun-kissed solar panels play well to the public.

So, the report by a West Australian Parliamentary committee into "micro-grids and associated technologies" — ostensibly renewable energy and how best to integrate it — taps into that wellspring of excitement.

The report outlines the need for better planning to ensure the proliferation of solar panels across people's homes in WA is properly harnessed to the net benefit of the system and, by extension, household electricity bills.

Where the report falls short is in dealing with the hardest part of electricity reform: pricing.

At some stage, this or another government will have to face up to the need to fix electricity prices.

For years now, politicians on all sides have known the tariff structure which underpins much of the electricity market is fundamentally broken and must be fixed if the right investments are to be made and the system is to be secured.

The reason for this is largely to do with the rampant popularity of rooftop solar, which accounts for more than 1200MW of capacity and is easily the biggest single source of generation in the system.

Solar is now such a large part of the energy mix in WA that it is causing problems only a few people envisaged a decade ago.

Solar upsets the grid's stability
At the heart of the challenge is the way in which solar output swells in an uncontrolled way during the middle of the day, often displacing other generators such as gas- and coal-fired power plants.

On mild days when solar efficiency is particularly high and demand might be low, solar power can force a significant share of the power generation offline.

That might sound good, and in so many ways it is.

Synergy's $657 million loss

But where the situation becomes problematic is when there is a sharp change in generation, like when clouds blot out a mass of solar panels in Perth at once, or demand changes rapidly — an industrial customer going offline suddenly, for example.

In these circumstances, the so-called firming services provided by conventional power plants, and which keep the system on an even keel, can be stretched thin.

That's when the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO), which runs the wholesale market in WA and is responsible for keeping the lights on, begins to worry.

While the uptake of solar might have initially been driven by generous state and federal incentives, it is now being helped by a mismatch in electricity prices.

Put simply, the way we use electricity in a solar world has changed but the tariff system has not.

The way we pay for electricity in WA — and therefore the way electricity providers recover their costs — is based on how much we draw from the grid.

The usage charge still represents the lion's share of what households are supposed to pay every year in their power bills.

But, of course, households with solar often use much less power from the grid.

They still cost just as much to service, but they're paying a fraction compared with households that don't or can't have solar on their roofs.

What's more, the major remaining incentive scheme — the renewable energy buyback scheme administered by state-owned providers Synergy and Horizon Power — is amplifying many of these effects.

Under the scheme, households are paid a flat rate of 7.1 cents for every unit of electricity they pump back into the grid.

This excess energy is worth very little in the middle of the day — some in the energy industry would say nothing — and arguably a small fortune later in the day when it is actually needed.

Yet the payment stays the same around the clock.

The report recommends further trials of different electricity tariffs, and points to Horizon's efforts to test charging customers mobile-phone-style bills as an example, but those are unlikely to reveal anything not already known.

Battery projects left in regulatory limbo
The report also talks about the need to overhaul and bring into the 21st century electricity rules and regulations that have been left behind by the rapid advance of technology.

An aerial photo of batteries and solar panels in a dry landscape. Integrated solar and battery farms have been adopted in other states, such as the Gannawarra farm in Kerang, Victoria.(Supplied: Edify Energy.)

Read on for more bad news here

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-20/law-reform-for-micro-grids-could-revoluti...

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Setanta

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\/ Peace man!

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Northern NSW
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Re: Will the bottom fall out of home solar ?
Reply #13 - Jul 29^th, 2020 at 8:56pm

You know, I was looking at ways for the grid to soak up excess produced energy so how about this? The energy companies run cryptocurrency farms and hydrogen and oxygen production with the excess? They could keep the baseload turning over and when there is excess pour it onto things that can be turned up and down with ease that produce money. Energy sinks that make money. Any other ideas for things that can make money from excess energy that can be ramped up and down quickly?

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Johnnie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12485 Gender:	Re: Will the bottom fall out of home solar ? Reply #14 - Jul 29^th, 2020 at 9:20pm The bottom fell out a long time ago, get 2 cents a feed in tariff and think yourself lucky, just make max use of the solar panels as often as possible for the good of the planet.
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