Australian Politics Forum - ALL drugs should be decriminalised

Jovial Monk

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ALL drugs should be decriminalised
Sep 8^th, 2020 at 2:36pm

I asked Kat if he objected to a thread like this. He generously gave me the go ahead.

Some numbnuts of an American President declared a War on Drugs™. As expected, this worked as well as as Prohibition did earlier. Because of this stupid, unwinnable war pill testing was not allowed at some big do in NSW or ACT. This is letting down our young people in a big way.

Before discussing further decriminalising or legalising drugs of addiction let us consider one legal drug: tobacco, nicotine.

A few decades ago something like 80% of the population smoked, certainly 80% of the male population. Smoking rates are now down to 19%. Because the drug was legal information about it could be broadcast. The plain packaging also had a huge impact—took away the glamor of smoking.

Alcohol is another legal drug of addiction. Because it is legal groups like Alcoholics Anonymous could form and hold open, public meetings where they described their tussles with alcohol. We also have breath testing, alcohol education material broadcast and we have things like the number of standard drinks printed on the label.

I know some Drugs Anonymous type groups were set up but drugs other than the above two are illegal unless prescribed.

OK, one last point: a lot of people acquire dependency and addiction to opiates after they have undergone a major operation. I know that on discharge from hospital after my hip replacement operation I was given two sheets of ten (IIRC) Endones, opiates, to take home. After I had not taken any for a few days I woke up with a craving to take an Endone. I managed to resist and had no more cravings after that. I was getting close to 30 doses which engenders dependency. Next day I returned one full sheet and one sheet of one tablet to a rather startled pharmacist.

I only needed ONE sheet, why give me two? Careless! Issuing of opiates etc needs to be controlled much more tightly and more information given to the patients given these powerful drugs to take home!

Because of the idiotic, unwinnable War on Drugs™ we have this nonsense:

Quote:

In response to the opioid crisis, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) is focusing its efforts on five major priorities:

1. improving access to treatment and recovery services
2. promoting use of overdose-reversing drugs
3. strengthening our understanding of the epidemic through better public health surveillance
4. providing support for cutting-edge research on pain and addiction
5. advancing better practices for pain management

https://www.drugabuse.gov/drug-topics/opioids/opioid-overdose-crisis

Points 1–3 above are just wishing the problem away. Not going to happen, people will get addicted and then they will get their drugs!

Points 4-5 might reduce somewhat the number of people who get addicted to prescribed opioids. It is all just pious wishing tho.

Before I present a real solution including real-life examples of it I will let members express an opinion of this.

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« Last Edit: Sep 8^th, 2020 at 10:11pm by Jovial Monk »

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If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.

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Super Nova Gold Member Offline Posts: 3076 Everywhere Gender:	Re: ALL drugs should decriminalised Reply #1 - Sep 8^th, 2020 at 7:07pm ALL drugs should decriminalised I agree for users but not dealers of class A Make them available through legitimate government approved outlets, tax them and fund rehab.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 47970 Gender:	Re: ALL drugs should be decriminalised Reply #2 - Sep 8^th, 2020 at 7:10pm If pure (not cut with rat poison etc) and known strength drugs are available legally who would go to a dealer? Cigarettes and alcohol are taxed as they cause costs to the community. So should “recreational” drugs.
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UnSubRocky

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Re: ALL drugs should decriminalised
Reply #3 - Sep 8^th, 2020 at 7:20pm

I had the idea 20 years ago that smoking would become so unpopular that only 5% of the Australian population would still be smokers. I also formulated the opinion that the cost of smokes with tax being the majority of the cost would make smoking so unviable that people would just quit.

Making drugs legal would largely ensure that drug dealers would go out of business. But, overdoses will escalate. The police would not have to deal with break and enters. They would be redirected towards more numerous car crashes.

It was a real laugh when I heard about the proposed shooting galleries staffed with a nurse. The whole "they are going to do it anyway" concession is just weak-willed policies against people who are too weak to live life without excessive pain killers.

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At this stage...

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 47970 Gender:	Re: ALL drugs should be decriminalised Reply #4 - Sep 8^th, 2020 at 7:32pm The “shooting galleries” are so addicts inject using clean syringes and needles, reducing the spread of HIV, hepatitis etc.
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UnSubRocky

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Re: ALL drugs should be decriminalised
Reply #5 - Sep 9^th, 2020 at 1:11pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 8^th, 2020 at 7:32pm:

The “shooting galleries” are so addicts inject using clean syringes and needles, reducing the spread of HIV, hepatitis etc.

That kind of misses the point. We should not be encouraging drug use. And there are needle exchanges to try and reduce spread of diseases among drug addicts.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 47970 Gender:	Re: ALL drugs should be decriminalised Reply #6 - Sep 9^th, 2020 at 2:02pm Hmmmm but Prohibition does not work, so just “discouraging” does not reduce rates of addiction or the rates of HIV/hepatitis infections spreading! Clean needles, shooting galleries, sharps disposal bins—all recognising that drugs of addiction are being used—do reduce rates of HIV/Hepatitis infections.
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Belgarion

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Re: ALL drugs should be decriminalised
Reply #7 - Sep 9^th, 2020 at 2:21pm

It's important to note that there is a distinct difference between decriminalising drugs and making them legal. Decriminalising means treating use and abuse as a health, rather than criminal matter. This will certainly free up police and court resources and somewhat reduce the level of street crime, however any cost savings will be absorbed by the increased medical intervention needed.

We then have to decide what the desired outcome is. To maintain addicts so that they don't need to resort to crime to feed their habit, or to actively assist them to get themselves clean? Also, while lower end crime may reduce, the big players in the drug business will simply move on to some other criminal activity that is profitable, they will not suddenly become upright citizens.

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: ALL drugs should be decriminalised
Reply #8 - Sep 9^th, 2020 at 3:01pm

Belgarion wrote on Sep 9^th, 2020 at 2:21pm:

It's important to note that there is a distinct difference between decriminalising drugs and making them legal. Decriminalising means treating use and abuse as a health, rather than criminal matter. This will certainly free up police and court resources and somewhat reduce the level of street crime, however any cost savings will be absorbed by the increased medical intervention needed.

We then have to decide what the desired outcome is. To maintain addicts so that they don't need to resort to crime to feed their habit, or to actively assist them to get themselves clean? Also, while lower end crime may reduce, the big players in the drug business will simply move on to some other criminal activity that is profitable, they will not suddenly become upright citizens.

A common sense post. I agree, drug use is primarily a health issue and should be treated as such. Police can still go after the big time drug dealers and importers, but a guy with a marijuana plant in his yard for his personal use?

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Bobby.

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Re: ALL drugs should be decriminalised
Reply #9 - Sep 9^th, 2020 at 3:07pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Sep 9^th, 2020 at 3:01pm:

Belgarion wrote on Sep 9^th, 2020 at 2:21pm:

It's important to note that there is a distinct difference between decriminalising drugs and making them legal. Decriminalising means treating use and abuse as a health, rather than criminal matter. This will certainly free up police and court resources and somewhat reduce the level of street crime, however any cost savings will be absorbed by the increased medical intervention needed.

We then have to decide what the desired outcome is. To maintain addicts so that they don't need to resort to crime to feed their habit, or to actively assist them to get themselves clean? Also, while lower end crime may reduce, the big players in the drug business will simply move on to some other criminal activity that is profitable, they will not suddenly become upright citizens.

A common sense post. I agree, drug use is primarily a health issue and should be treated as such. Police can still go after the big time drug dealers and importers, but a guy with a marijuana plant in his yard for his personal use?

I never understood why people who take drugs
are classed as criminals?
It's a victimless offence.
They only hurt themselves unless they drive
a car and kill someone while intoxicated.
They should should just give out small fines.

The cops need to spend time chasing:
home invaders, car jackers and burglars.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: ALL drugs should be decriminalised
Reply #10 - Sep 9^th, 2020 at 3:17pm

The problem is that drugs can lead to withdrawals that trigger violent outbursts and delusions. I have seen the effects of people who dry out from heroin usage. Alcoholic drinks lead people to generally lose their inhibitions. But if the withdrawals included having violent outbursts and delusions, you would probably see greater regulations or even bans on alcohol sales. Geez, I wonder where I have seen that before?

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: ALL drugs should be decriminalised
Reply #11 - Sep 9^th, 2020 at 5:56pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Sep 9^th, 2020 at 3:01pm:

Belgarion wrote on Sep 9^th, 2020 at 2:21pm:

It's important to note that there is a distinct difference between decriminalising drugs and making them legal. Decriminalising means treating use and abuse as a health, rather than criminal matter. This will certainly free up police and court resources and somewhat reduce the level of street crime, however any cost savings will be absorbed by the increased medical intervention needed.

We then have to decide what the desired outcome is. To maintain addicts so that they don't need to resort to crime to feed their habit, or to actively assist them to get themselves clean? Also, while lower end crime may reduce, the big players in the drug business will simply move on to some other criminal activity that is profitable, they will not suddenly become upright citizens.

A common sense post. I agree, drug use is primarily a health issue and should be treated as such. Police can still go after the big time drug dealers and importers, but a guy with a marijuana plant in his yard for his personal use?

yes

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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John Smith

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Re: ALL drugs should decriminalised
Reply #12 - Sep 9^th, 2020 at 6:03pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 8^th, 2020 at 7:20pm:

I had the idea 20 years ago that smoking would become so unpopular that only 5% of the Australian population would still be smokers. I also formulated the opinion that the cost of smokes with tax being the majority of the cost would make smoking so unviable that people would just quit.

Making drugs legal would largely ensure that drug dealers would go out of business. But, overdoses will escalate. The police would not have to deal with break and enters. They would be redirected towards more numerous car crashes.

It was a real laugh when I heard about the proposed shooting galleries staffed with a nurse. The whole "they are going to do it anyway" concession is just weak-willed policies against people who are too weak to live life without excessive pain killers.

Portugal found the rates of overdoses reduced after legalising drugs

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 75361 Gender:	Re: ALL drugs should be decriminalised Reply #13 - Sep 9^th, 2020 at 6:04pm Bobby. wrote on Sep 9^th, 2020 at 3:07pm: I never understood why people who take drugs are classed as criminals? It's a victimless offence. don't be so daft
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UnSubRocky

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Re: ALL drugs should decriminalised
Reply #14 - Sep 10^th, 2020 at 3:01am

John Smith wrote on Sep 9^th, 2020 at 6:03pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Sep 8^th, 2020 at 7:20pm:

I had the idea 20 years ago that smoking would become so unpopular that only 5% of the Australian population would still be smokers. I also formulated the opinion that the cost of smokes with tax being the majority of the cost would make smoking so unviable that people would just quit.

Making drugs legal would largely ensure that drug dealers would go out of business. But, overdoses will escalate. The police would not have to deal with break and enters. They would be redirected towards more numerous car crashes.

It was a real laugh when I heard about the proposed shooting galleries staffed with a nurse. The whole "they are going to do it anyway" concession is just weak-willed policies against people who are too weak to live life without excessive pain killers.

Portugal found the rates of overdoses reduced after legalising drugs

I heard different. There may well have been a relaxing of numbers in the long term. But the short term was an initial spike in overdoses with the upturn of users using more.

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