Australian Politics Forum - no such thing as baseload power demand

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: no such thing as baseline power demand Reply #30 - Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:34pm lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:32pm: freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:20pm: There is no real minimum. It depends entirely on price. So bugger the hospitals; they don't need no stinkin' power? Correct. Anything that "needs" power has it's own backup generators.
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Captain Nemo

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Re: no such thing as baseline power demand
Reply #31 - Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:35pm

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:33pm:

lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:32pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:20pm:

There is no real minimum. It depends entirely on price.

So bugger the hospitals; they don't need no stinkin' power? Grin

Correct. Anything that "needs" power has it's own backup generators.

Backup generators!

Strike me pink! That's the worst form of fossil fuel supply. Cheesy

We will need a level of fossil fuel dispatchable power until fusion reaction comes along to solve all our problems. Cool

To you, Freediver Baggins, I give The Light of Eärendil, our most beloved star. May it be a light for you when all other lights go out*.

* Which they will do without fossil fuel dispatchable electricity.
Tongue

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freediver

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Re: no such thing as baseline power demand
Reply #32 - Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:37pm

Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:35pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:33pm:

lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:32pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:20pm:

There is no real minimum. It depends entirely on price.

So bugger the hospitals; they don't need no stinkin' power? Grin

Correct. Anything that "needs" power has it's own backup generators.

Backup generators.
!

Strike me pink! That's the worst form of fossil fuel supply. Cheesy

That's why we call them "backup" generators.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17290 Gender:	Re: no such thing as baseline power demand Reply #33 - Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:40pm freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:34pm: Correct. Anything that "needs" power has it's own backup generators. Oh you mean for when that non-existent baseload fails?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: no such thing as baseline power demand Reply #34 - Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:41pm lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:40pm: freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:34pm: Correct. Anything that "needs" power has it's own backup generators. Oh you mean for when that non-existent baseload fails? Do you have a point?
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Jasin

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Re: no such thing as baseline power demand
Reply #35 - Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:50pm

Mix_Master wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 12:57pm:

Jasin wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 11:59am:

If the ALP were in Power - they would be giving all these major Corps and Companies $million dollar packages like they did before and these Corps/Companies ran away with the money - a lot going to CEO bonuses.
The money should be spent on the People, not the Corps/Companies. They chose Privatisation - they're on their own. As too are the Privatised Schools.

And privatisation is a "Labor thing?"

You really do live in an alternate universe to the rest of us, don't you?

What's it like there?

It's like being a 'Day Ahead', besides just being 'Down Under'. Fine thanks.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17290 Gender:	Re: no such thing as baseline power demand Reply #36 - Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:52pm freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:42pm: Do you have a point? Poor petal. Hospitals RELY on baseload power. Backup generators mean that when the power goes out there is a time when there is no power in the hospital. "Now where is that spleen"?
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 47342 Gender:	Re: no such thing as baseline power demand Reply #37 - Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:57pm I saw a huge 20cm cable of Electricity ripped up and torn apart upon a Hospital construction site by mistake. Site was shut down for awhile. Hospital still functioned.
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freediver

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Re: no such thing as baseline power demand
Reply #38 - Nov 29^th, 2020 at 2:13pm

lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:52pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:42pm:

Do you have a point?

Poor petal. Hospitals RELY on baseload power. Backup generators mean that when the power goes out there is a time when there is no power in the hospital. "Now where is that spleen"? Grin

You are confusing the scenario I presented with an unexpected blackout.

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Jasin

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Re: no such thing as baseline power demand
Reply #39 - Nov 29^th, 2020 at 2:23pm

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 2:13pm:

lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:52pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:42pm:

Do you have a point?

Poor petal. Hospitals RELY on baseload power. Backup generators mean that when the power goes out there is a time when there is no power in the hospital. "Now where is that spleen"? Grin

You are confusing the scenario I presented with an unexpected blackout.

Ssh. Don't say that word. It's wracist, like Mr Coon's cheese.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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The_Barnacle

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Re: no such thing as baseline power demand
Reply #40 - Nov 29^th, 2020 at 2:38pm

lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:13pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 12:42pm:

So if you believe Freediver is wrong, why dont you tell us what Baseload is?

Baseload power is the minimum power required at a point in time.

The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 12:42pm:

And what determines baseload?

Baseload is determined by many things. Time of day, air conditioning, cooking. It depends on the drag on the grid.

"Baseload is the term commonly used to describe the amount of electricity demand required on a continuous basis, i.e. 24 hours a day all year round, to power continuous industrial processes, and essential services such as traffic lights, hospitals etc. "

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_...

Glad to help those in need. Wink

Base load refers to the minimum level of output that these big power generators could go to, before they turned off.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2017-10-12/renewable-energy-baseload-power/9...

Firstly, it’s important to know that baseload power is the result of the way the electricity market used to work when coal-fired power stations were its mainstay and cheapest option. ‘Baseload’ did/does not refer to the maximum or even the average output of these power stations, but the minimum they could produce without having to be switched off.

The problem was that there usually wasn’t enough load for these huge baseload generators at night, and no generating company wanted to turn them off because it cost too much money and energy to get them running again.

“The baseload, that is the lowest load on the generators, is met at 4 a.m.,” Vassallo continues. “At that time of the day the idea is that the cheap fuel generators, the coal-fired generators, would be ticking over, just meting that minimum demand.

“If the demand dropped even more, some of the big generators would have to turn off, which is very inefficient. So there were schemes like off-peak hot water to provide extra load and use the generator power that was available at that time of night.”

https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/baseload-energy-generation-expos...

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lee

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Re: no such thing as baseline power demand
Reply #41 - Nov 29^th, 2020 at 3:06pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 2:38pm:

Base load refers to the minimum level of output that these big power generators could go to, before they turned off.

Poor petal. Just doesn't understand how power works. Just hope you never have to go to hospital at any time.The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 2:38pm:

“The baseload, that is the lowest load on the generators, is met at 4 a.m.,” Vassallo continues. “At that time of the day the idea is that the cheap fuel generators, the coal-fired generators, would be ticking over, just meting that minimum demand.

So not working to their lowest level capable. Wink

And because the sun doesn't shine at 4 am you are stuck with wind.

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Captain Nemo

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Re: no such thing as baseline power demand
Reply #42 - Nov 29^th, 2020 at 3:18pm

lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 3:06pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 2:38pm:

Base load refers to the minimum level of output that these big power generators could go to, before they turned off.

Poor petal. Just doesn't understand how power works. Just hope you never have to go to hospital at any time.The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 2:38pm:

“The baseload, that is the lowest load on the generators, is met at 4 a.m.,” Vassallo continues. “At that time of the day the idea is that the cheap fuel generators, the coal-fired generators, would be ticking over, just meting that minimum demand.

So not working to their lowest level capable. Wink

And because the sun doesn't shine at 4 am you are stuck with wind.

And because the world's largest batteries only last for about one hour, if the wind stops ... it's back to: the light of Eärendil Wink

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Gnads

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Re: no such thing as baseline power demand
Reply #43 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 6:21am

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 10:04am:

Ajax wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 9:25am:

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 9:19am:

A profit is just as good as a handout.

But didn't you just say the government should stay clear of such issues.....???

If the government doesn't get involved nothing will happen...!!!

We have to hand over tax payer dollars for the private corporations to make a move.

So what is it....???

Does the government get involved....???

YES OR NO.....!!

I think you'll find that people are capable of making money without the government holding their hand.

Quote:

Public utilities such as the supply of water and electricity should never be in the hands of private enterprise.

Why not? Because they are 'public'?

No because they are essentials of life & shouldn't be at the dictate of profit driven private companies.

Where has privatisation in these areas reduced prices for the public?

Even water for agriculture has now been turned into a tradable commodity making it affordable only to corporate agriculture.... where in many cases the water trading is where they make the most profit & often becomes the sole business.

This makes buying water unaffordable to smaller farming operators.

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Dnarever

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Re: no such thing as baseline power demand
Reply #44 - Nov 30^th, 2020 at 6:28am

lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:40pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 1:34pm:

Correct. Anything that "needs" power has it's own backup generators.

Oh you mean for when that non-existent baseload fails? Grin

Baseload demand cannot fail ? Its a theoretical estimate.

Baseload supply can fail but that is different to this topic - no ?

While baseload demand may be questionable baseload supply isn't - that is very real.

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