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5 pillars (Read 13952 times)
freediver
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5 pillars
Jan 6th, 2021 at 2:22pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 6th, 2021 at 11:22am:
freediver wrote on Dec 26th, 2020 at 9:41am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 24th, 2020 at 9:51am:
Yadda wrote on Dec 24th, 2020 at 9:41am:
a philosophy which transforms human beings, into homicidal maniacs ?


I just have one question.

In Islam muslims universally agree that the religion consists of 5 core tenets. Basically, if a muslim is asked to summarise Islam as succintly as possible, they would invariably cite these 5 tenets as being the 'core' of the religion.

I know a learned man as yourself knows exactly what these 5 tenets are.

So my question is, which of these tenets specifically causes human beings to transform into homocidal maniacs - and why?



Here is an example of a Muslim trying to hide the Quran.

Very sneaky Gandalf.


The 5 pillars are based on the Quran.

You pretend Islam is purely about killing jews and rape and pillage.

Yet, no one refutes the fact that the 5 pillars are universally agreed by muslims to be the best summation of the "essense" of Islam that we have. And not one of those 5 pillars mentions rape, pillage or slaughtering jews.


Who came up with the 5 pillars?

Are they acts, or beliefs?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: 5 pillars
Reply #1 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 2:41pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 6th, 2021 at 2:22pm:
Who came up with the 5 pillars?


I believe they are based on what is most emphasised in the holy texts of Islam. Even a cursory study of the Quran (as well as the ahadith) quickly makes this pretty obvious.

Whoever it was that first articulated these as "the 5 pillars" is neither here nor there - whats important is that muslims worldwide overwhelmingly agree that they represent the core essence of Islam.

freediver wrote on Jan 6th, 2021 at 2:22pm:
Are they acts, or beliefs?


I would describe them as acts of belief.
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freediver
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Re: 5 pillars
Reply #2 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 2:54pm
 
It seems a little strange that what you describe as the core tenets of your belief system are entirely demonstrative, come from an unknown author, and are merely "alluded to" in the Quran. Wikipedia describes them as "ritual obligations". The first one for example, the shahada you are supposed to recite, is not even in the Quran.
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Valkie
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Re: 5 pillars
Reply #3 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 2:56pm
 
Don't they walk around an asteroid that crashed to earth and kiss it as a ritual???

Poor deluded primitives.

I might just go over there with a cigarette lighter and be their God.
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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: 5 pillars
Reply #4 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 3:06pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 6th, 2021 at 2:54pm:
It seems a little strange that what you describe as the core tenets of your belief system are entirely demonstrative, come from an unknown author, and are merely "alluded to" in the Quran.

They are not "alluded to" in the Quran.

They are repeated, over and over and over and over - very explicitly.

[quote]Wikipedia describes them as "ritual obligations". The first one for example, the shahada you are supposed to recite, is not even in the Quran.


The shahada is merely declaring your belief that there is no God but God. The principle of montheism is quite possibly *THE* most emphasised point in the Quran.

You really are clutching at straws saying the 5 pillars are not explicit enough in the Quran, therefore they don't represent Islam's core - when for years we know you have been peddling this nonsense that things that are infinitely more obscurely referenced in the Quran (killing and pillaging etc) are the real core essences of Islam.
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moses
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Re: 5 pillars
Reply #5 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 3:09pm
 
Shahada says no god but allah.

If the pillars are the ultimate and not the qur'an, why don't the muslims denounce and purge the myriad of evil verses in the qur'an, which cause and motivate the thousands of rapes tortures and murders of innocent men women and children around the globe every year?
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freediver
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Re: 5 pillars
Reply #6 - Jan 6th, 2021 at 3:11pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 6th, 2021 at 3:06pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 6th, 2021 at 2:54pm:
It seems a little strange that what you describe as the core tenets of your belief system are entirely demonstrative, come from an unknown author, and are merely "alluded to" in the Quran.

They are not "alluded to" in the Quran.

They are repeated, over and over and over and over - very explicitly.

[quote]Wikipedia describes them as "ritual obligations". The first one for example, the shahada you are supposed to recite, is not even in the Quran.


The shahada is merely declaring your belief that there is no God but God. The principle of montheism is quite possibly *THE* most emphasised point in the Quran.

You really are clutching at straws saying the 5 pillars are not explicit enough in the Quran, therefore they don't represent Islam's core - when for years we know you have been peddling this nonsense that things that are infinitely more obscurely referenced in the Quran (killing and pillaging etc) are the real core essences of Islam.


Would it be fair to say that fighting and killing gets more coverage in the Quran than pillar 4?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: 5 pillars
Reply #7 - Jan 7th, 2021 at 11:37am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 6th, 2021 at 3:11pm:
Would it be fair to say that fighting and killing gets more coverage in the Quran than pillar 4?


fasting?

No, I don't think so.

First of all its not that simple - for example the coverage for "killing" would include commands not to kill, or instances where it is condemned - which I'm sure is not what you had in mind.

Secondly, as I have argued many times before, "fighting" is a loose term that can (and in the Quran usually does) mean a non-violent spiritual fight - typically with yourself.

Fasting, like everything else in the 5 pillars, speaks to an internal, spiritual journey for the individual. Pretty much the exact opposite of the stereotype that speaks to a materialistic and political campaign to conquer and rape and pillage. Thats the key point I'm trying to convey.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Frank
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Re: 5 pillars
Reply #8 - Jan 7th, 2021 at 3:01pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 6th, 2021 at 2:41pm:
Whoever it was that first articulated these as "the 5 pillars" is neither here nor there




This is simply unbelievable.


Islam is manic about rules and authorities about every thought and action. That the authority for it's very pillars are lost in the mist of time and that Muslims aren't fagged about that is either indicative of their mindlessness or is some new sleight of hand (cf taqiyya) by you.



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polite_gandalf
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Re: 5 pillars
Reply #9 - Jan 7th, 2021 at 3:14pm
 
The authority is not in question Frank.

It is the Quran.
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issuevoter
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Re: 5 pillars
Reply #10 - Jan 7th, 2021 at 3:18pm
 
moses wrote on Jan 6th, 2021 at 3:09pm:
Shahada says no god but allah.

If the pillars are the ultimate and not the qur'an, why don't the muslims denounce and purge the myriad of evil verses in the qur'an, which cause and motivate the thousands of rapes tortures and murders of innocent men women and children around the globe every year?


You might be lucky, but don't count on an answer. It would probably run something like this. "Then why don't the Christians . . . blah blah blah . . . Like Christians are machine-gunning and beheading people on the streets of civilised countries, because of some perceived insult to Christianity .
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moses
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Re: 5 pillars
Reply #11 - Jan 7th, 2021 at 4:31pm
 
ISLAMIC JIHAD-STRIVING FOR THE CAUSE OF ALLAH

muslims and their apologists lie and tell us jihad is a spiritual struggle

PROOF JIHAD IS NOT A SPIRITUAL STRUGGLE
Quote:
qur'an 4.95:Not equal are those believers remaining [at home] - other than the disabled - and the mujahideen, [who strive and fight] in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred the mujahideen through their wealth and their lives over those who remain [behind], by degrees. And to both Allah has promised the best [reward]. But Allah has preferred the mujahideen over those who remain [behind] with a great reward -

qur'an 48.17: There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom.


If jihad is a spiritual struggle why do you have to be physically fit, be prepared to give your life?

jihad means: physically carrying out terrorism, torture and mass murder against those the muslims disagree with.
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Ayn Marx
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Re: 5 pillars
Reply #12 - Jan 7th, 2021 at 7:58pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Jan 7th, 2021 at 3:18pm:
moses wrote on Jan 6th, 2021 at 3:09pm:
Shahada says no god but allah.

If the pillars are the ultimate and not the qur'an, why don't the muslims denounce and purge the myriad of evil verses in the qur'an, which cause and motivate the thousands of rapes tortures and murders of innocent men women and children around the globe every year?


You might be lucky, but don't count on an answer. It would probably run something like this. "Then why don't the Christians . . . blah blah blah . . . Like Christians are machine-gunning and beheading people on the streets of civilised countries, because of some perceived insult to Christianity .
If The Enlightenment hadn’t shocked the church into the modern age Christians would still be persecuting anyone who disobeyed it's various sects vicious ‘moral' edicts. Give any religion sufficient control of government and it will run amok.
With God on your side, what’s to stop you? And don’t come that crap about Christ’s teachings. Until and unless all of the Christian world dumps the Old Testament and most Pauls obscene edicts you lot are in no position to preach morality to any of us.

And before anyone imagines I’m letting the Qur’an off the hook, yes that document consists of concentrated evil. However, to contrast that so called Holy Book with the Bible in an attempt to paint the church as pure as snow is no more than dishonest, theological sophistry.
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Frank
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Re: 5 pillars
Reply #13 - Jan 7th, 2021 at 10:58pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7th, 2021 at 3:14pm:
The authority is not in question Frank.

It is the Quran.

So the 5 pillars are in the koran as the 5 pillars?  No. They are in a hadith which has two versions, only one of them saying that mohammed is a prophet.

What is the authority behind each of these versions of the hadith of gabriel?
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Re: 5 pillars
Reply #14 - Jan 8th, 2021 at 7:47am
 


First pillar: Shahada (Profession of Faith)                  “There is no god, but Allah.”
Second Pillar: Salat (Prayer)
Third Pillar: Zakat (Almsgiving)
Fourth Pillar: Sawm (Fasting)
Fifth Pillar: Hajj (Pilgrimage)



Quote:

The contradiction between “Allahu akbar” and “La illaha illallah” (There is no god but Allah)


Apr 9, 2020
By Anjuli Pandavar

“Allahu akbar” means “Allah is greater,” i.e., greater than your god. This is shirk at the very heart of Islam. It directly contradicts, “There is no god, but Allah.”


If there is no god, but Allah, then who is the god that Allah is greater than? For Allah to be greater than another god, there has to be another god besides Allah. This is what Islam itself says, when it claims, “Allahu akbar.”



Claiming both “Allahu akbar” and “La illaha illallah,” makes Islam shirk, i.e., hudud, sin against god. Islam itself commits its own worst possible sin. I invite Muslims to take this point to their sheikh, ‘alim, mullah, imam, mufti, etc. Best not mention that you’ve heard it from a murtadd, because that would give them the perfect excuse to avoid answering the question, and instead turn on you for reading a murtadd in the first place.

If a Muslim is serious about being Muslim, and can think for themselves, the shirk at the heart of Islam would be a more important reason for leaving this religion immediately, than any other reason on the ever-growing list.


Let’s consider where the list of reasons for leaving Islam is up to today:


    Islam’s insistence that the worst Muslim is better than the best non-Muslim
    The unspeakable cruelty that Islam engenders in Muslims, even towards their own loved ones
    Violence being everywhere in Islam
    Islam’s insistence that obvious falsehoods are true
    Islam’s insistence that Muslims accept without question obvious falsehoods as truth
    Islam’s denying the personhood of women
    Islam’s imperative to violently subjugate the entire world to itself
    The impossibility of a Muslim ever taking a non-Muslim as equal while remaining true to Islam
    Islam’s expectation on Muslims that they do as Muslims do, even if it is incredibly unwise, unethical or dangerous, and to hold in contempt that which non-Muslims do instead (Muslim response to the current CoVID-19 pandemic being both a bizarre and a tragic example of this)
    Islam’s intellectual stunting of Muslims, even those who are very clever by Muslim standards
    Islam’s permanently restricting the ethics of Muslims to that of the Arabian desert barbarians of late antiquity
    The Islamic right to murder one’s children and grandchildren
    Islam’s insistence that the basest behaviours are virtues
    Islam’s insistence that Muslims follow the example of a man who, were he alive today, would be permanently confined to the secure ward of a mental hospital
    Islam’s obliteration of all cultures it encounters and supplanting them with seventh-century Arabian desert culture
    Islam’s propensity for turning decent, civilised people into sociopathic monsters
    Islam’s supremacism (far, far worse than white supremacism)
    Islam’s encouragement of paedophilia
    Islam’s condoning of slavery
    Islam’s making women lesser than men
    Islam’s historic track record that it can only regress civilisation
    Islam’s historic track record that it can only regress ethics
    The pitiful ignorance of Muslims around the world
    The tragedy that is Muslim cognition
    Islam’s non-recognition of rape
    Islam’s assertion that the Qur’an and the life of Muhammad are all that Muslims will ever need
    Islam’s reducing the emotional complexity of humans to nothing more than love, hate and lust (by men only)
    Islam’s command to Muslims to love only Allah and his messenger (all other love can only be through the love of Allah)
    Islam’s command to Muslims to hate all things non-Muslim
    Islam’s reducing all non-Muslims to Untermenschen
    Islam’s advocating genocide of the Jews
    The non-negotiability of Islam’s doctrines and tenets
    Islam’s command that anyone who leaves Islam must be killed
    Islam’s commandments fundamentally contradicting that which makes us human, leaving every Muslim with only two choices: be a hypocrite or be a monster

Of course, this list is far from exhaustive…

O Muslim, if “your iman is strong,” (meaning you insist on ignoring the mountain of evidence that surrounds you and have turned your heart to stone) and none of this fazes you, how do you reconcile yourself to Islam’s built-in shirk? Do you believe La illaha illallah to be untrue? Allahu akbar says it is. Or is Allahu akbar untrue? La illaha illallah says it is. Is your iman more important than avoiding shirk? How much more of this are you going to make yourself take?

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2020/04/the-contradiction-between-allahu-akbar-and-la...


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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