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Frank

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Re: Faith
Reply #30 - Oct 15^th, 2021 at 8:12pm

Ayn Marx wrote on Oct 15^th, 2021 at 7:10pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 15^th, 2021 at 1:55pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2021 at 10:18am:

Frank wrote on Feb 21^st, 2021 at 5:57pm:

Science has no ethical, esthetic, interpersonal answers. Science isnt a TOTAL explanation, it is a method of asking questions and testing answers to those questions.

But not every question is a scientific one. Most of the ones we live by aren't. This doesnt diminish science, it limits it.

Frank, I'm waiting to hear the questions you claim that science doesn't have the ability to answer

Any question about meaning. Any question about purpose (which is ultimately about meaning). Any question about ethics and esthetics (meaning, purpose, value).

All the important, meaningful stuff of life. Science is very valuable but its limits need to be recognised.

Putting aside for now the contentious issue of ‘meaning’ let’s ask ourselves if Freud and Jung’s subjective investigations are now a suitable area for neuroscience to re-exmine or is this area still out of bounds to science?

Or maybe you’re actually asserting only those areas outside the realm of science are important &/or meaningful?

Too much dope.

Revise and reformulate when you have slept it all off.

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Ayn Marx Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2937 South of Australia Gender:	Re: Faith Reply #31 - Oct 16^th, 2021 at 1:45pm Frank wrote on Oct 15^th, 2021 at 8:12pm: Too much dope. Revise and reformulate when you have slept it all off. Ad hominem argumenta superfluum.
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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 46176 Gender:	Re: Faith Reply #32 - Oct 16^th, 2021 at 4:56pm Ayn Marx wrote on Oct 15^th, 2021 at 7:10pm: let’s ask ourselves if Freud and Jung’s subjective investigations are now a suitable area for neuroscience to re-exmine or is this area still out of bounds to science? Ask away.
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The_Barnacle

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Re: Faith
Reply #33 - Oct 17^th, 2021 at 12:55pm

Frank wrote on Oct 15^th, 2021 at 1:55pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2021 at 10:18am:

Frank wrote on Feb 21^st, 2021 at 5:57pm:

Science has no ethical, esthetic, interpersonal answers. Science isnt a TOTAL explanation, it is a method of asking questions and testing answers to those questions.

But not every question is a scientific one. Most of the ones we live by aren't. This doesnt diminish science, it limits it.

Frank, I'm waiting to hear the questions you claim that science doesn't have the ability to answer

Any question about meaning. Any question about purpose (which is ultimately about meaning). Any question about ethics and esthetics (meaning, purpose, value).

All the important, meaningful stuff of life. Science is very valuable but its limits need to be recognised.

So no actual questions, just vague motherhood statements

meaning and purpose: The only meaning and purpose is to ensure our genes are preserved into the next generation.there is no evidence of any other meaning or purpose (and there is no problem with that). Psychologists and neurologists could give you an accurate reason behind many peoples need to feel that there is meaning and a purpose.

ethics: an anthropologist could give an accurate reason why it was necessary for societies to develop ethics. Every tribe/civilisation needs a set of rules to live by.

esthetics: it's surprising how our tastes actually have roots in our evolutionary past. Why do you think the female nude features so prominently in historical artwork (done mostly by males).
Even in our cities we feel the need to enjoy pockets of nature in our parks and gardens.

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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

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Frank

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Re: Faith
Reply #34 - Oct 17^th, 2021 at 8:39pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Oct 17^th, 2021 at 12:55pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 15^th, 2021 at 1:55pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2021 at 10:18am:

Frank wrote on Feb 21^st, 2021 at 5:57pm:

Science has no ethical, esthetic, interpersonal answers. Science isnt a TOTAL explanation, it is a method of asking questions and testing answers to those questions.

But not every question is a scientific one. Most of the ones we live by aren't. This doesnt diminish science, it limits it.

Frank, I'm waiting to hear the questions you claim that science doesn't have the ability to answer

Any question about meaning. Any question about purpose (which is ultimately about meaning). Any question about ethics and esthetics (meaning, purpose, value).

All the important, meaningful stuff of life. Science is very valuable but its limits need to be recognised.

So no actual questions, just vague motherhood statements

meaning and purpose: The only meaning and purpose is to ensure our genes are preserved into the next generation.there is no evidence of any other meaning or purpose (and there is no problem with that). Psychologists and neurologists could give you an accurate reason behind many peoples need to feel that there is meaning and a purpose.

ethics: an anthropologist could give an accurate reason why it was necessary for societies to develop ethics. Every tribe/civilisation needs a set of rules to live by.

esthetics: it's surprising how our tastes actually have roots in our evolutionary past. Why do you think the female nude features so prominently in historical artwork (done mostly by males).
Even in our cities we feel the need to enjoy pockets of nature in our parks and gardens.

What do you MEAN?

Say it scientifically.

Genetic preservation IS about meaning, not science. Presevation , purpose etc are about meaning, not science. The nude in art is ALL about meaning, not about science.

Don't be ridiculous.

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issuevoter

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Re: Faith
Reply #35 - Oct 17^th, 2021 at 10:13pm

Its not whether there IS meaning or purpose. Its that some people need to believe in meaning and purpose, others do not. No one is going to achieve anything by trying to convince the other that they are wrong.
However, it must be remembered that when meaning and purpose where required beliefs in Western society, the believers persecuted the unbelievers. And I am not going to allow them to simply say something about Faith having moved on, without reminding them of their spiritual inheritance.

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No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.

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Ayn Marx

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Re: Faith
Reply #36 - Oct 18^th, 2021 at 7:56am

issuevoter wrote on Oct 17^th, 2021 at 10:13pm:

Its not whether there IS meaning or purpose. Its that some people need to believe in meaning and purpose, others do not. No one is going to achieve anything by trying to convince the other that they are wrong.
However, it must be remembered that when meaning and purpose where required beliefs in Western society, the believers persecuted the unbelievers. And I am not going to allow them to simply say something about Faith having moved on, without reminding them of their spiritual inheritance.

So, all those millions upon millions of words dumped on internet forums are a waste of time ?
Oh well, some people are turned on by the sound of their own sermons.
Psalm 40 : V 9 ?

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The Human Race is Insane

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Frank

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Re: Faith
Reply #37 - Oct 23^rd, 2021 at 9:28am

issuevoter wrote on Oct 17^th, 2021 at 10:13pm:

Its not whether there IS meaning or purpose. Its that some people need to believe in meaning and purpose, others do not. No one is going to achieve anything by trying to convince the other that they are wrong.
However, it must be remembered that when meaning and purpose where required beliefs in Western society, the believers persecuted the unbelievers. And I am not going to allow them to simply say something about Faith having moved on, without reminding them of their spiritual inheritance.

You do not decide NOT to 'believe in meaning and purpose'. It's an absurdity since expressing no belief in meaning and purpose is itself a declaration of meaning and the speaker's purpose by saying it.
You cannot move your mind outside meaning and purpose without destroying it completely. Meaning and purpose are aspects of human consciousness, not optional extras.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49014 At my desk.	Re: Faith Reply #38 - Dec 10^th, 2023 at 4:55pm *This Topic was moved here from Atheism* by freediver.**
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