The IR emitted by the surface is absorbed by the GHGs. Most of the energy is transferred to Nitrogen molecules, warming the troposphere and so cooling the stratosphere, making it hard for the GHG molecules at the top of the stratosphere to emit IR, so energy is retained in surface, atmosphere and oceans.

A balanced system would have short and long wave radiation so that the temperature of the atmosphere-surface-ocean remains constant. That is not happening.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jun 10^th, 2023 at 6:30pm:



Still no troposphere hotspot, despite Santers many attempts.

Cooling of the stratosphere has no link to AGW.

The warming of the troposphere is much better than the cooling of the troposphere.

I wish we could get some of that global warming in Melbourne -
it's been so cold -
Winter came 1 month early in May - coldest on record - I think.

Poor Monk must be freezing along with his tropical dog in Hobart.
Even the mice have come inside his place to get out of the cold.  Brrrrrr.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11^th, 2023 at 4:04pm:


Ah assumption assumptions.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11^th, 2023 at 4:04pm:


Oh dear. So not renewables "visionaries" maximising profits?

"López Obrador has launched a crusade against private companies in the renewables sector, which he accuses of making millions in profits, in cahoots with previous governments, at the expense of the two main state companies in the sector, oil company Petróleos Mexicanos (Pemex) and electricity company Comisión Federal de Electricidad (CFE)."

https://www.equaltimes.org/mexico-clings-on-to-fossil-fuels?lang=en

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11^th, 2023 at 4:04pm:


So now you prove once  again how you don't know things. CO2 is not a poison. It is needed to breathe.  But please tell us how much CO has increased in the atmosphere. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11^th, 2023 at 4:04pm:



Nope. Climate acivists scientists. Dummy.

"Solar geoengineering may be effective in alleviating impacts of global warming on crops"

https://phys.org/news/2021-05-solar-geoengineering-effective-alleviating-impacts...

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11^th, 2023 at 4:04pm:



And not "visionaries" like C-B? Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11^th, 2023 at 4:04pm:



So where is it "hard to extract" gas? Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11^th, 2023 at 4:04pm:


You were saying how they couldn't do it profitably. And yet you expect others to do so, with the same economies of scale. You really are a dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11^th, 2023 at 4:04pm:


But you are a champion of the private sector doing it in Australia. Such a dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11^th, 2023 at 4:04pm:



Nope. You need to acknowledge infrastructure is not free in the first instance and not free in the second. You can't understand basic accounting and can't possible do anything higher,  due to your lack of knowledge. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11^th, 2023 at 4:04pm:


And nowhere has it succeeded, despite the EU attempting to do so. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11^th, 2023 at 4:04pm:


Wow. You know the thoughts of "everyone else". And the IPCC- The Physical Science  Basis doesn't cover it. So it must be in the NOT the Physical Science Basis. Amazing - NOT. Dummy.

But perhaps you can find this elusive statement.
So many claims so many unsubstantiated.
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 11^th, 2023 at 4:04pm:



And yet you can't do basic accounting, and then proclaim that you know economics. And of course your lack of knowledge extends to climate as well. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:


Another assumption. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:



Which is not the same thing. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:


In actual fact "Private Companies" don't exist in Mexico. They are actually Limited Liability Companies, which must have less than 50 members. And the company structure means absolutely nothing. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:


Quite a lot actually dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:


In high concentrations yes. CO also occurs naturally. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:


But you were saying they were "those in cahoots with the filthy ff industry". You keep changing your story when refuted. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:



"Solar engineering" is putting those pesky aerosols in the atmosphere. The ones you whinge about. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:


And yet you can't find a quote that says he is doing it to "save the planet". Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:



And you can't find a quote for that either. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:



But you quoted Shell. So you must have believed it. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:



And yet you can't show that the earth has the necessary resources. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:


Intriguing. Now you say C-B MAY be a private sector visionary. Dummy.

So you are only championing ONE private sector company. Attempting to pick winners. Dummy. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:



So may assumptions again. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:


And that proved it works? was working? stopped working? Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:


Oh dear backsteppoing again. First it was only I and now it is other AGW deniers. And then you say you don't believe the Science as  it is "only AGW deniers". You really are a dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:



Nope. You need more than basic accounting to do Economics. Dummy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 2:14pm:


Then why don't you quote the science that says there is an AGW emergency. Dummy.

lee wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 3:27pm:


So can I  'assume' you 'might' accept public sector management of the transition? (...pull the other one...)

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Fracking is polluting, whereas a circular (zero waste)  economy is not.  Again, your low IQ and dementia are showing.

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Semantics: next you'll be saying Mexico is communist; your statement means nothing.

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And you are here to educate people? Pull the other one.

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Like in high-congestion urban areas.

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Dementia: I said  climate activists may be correct (re the AGW emergency), not "private companies in the renewables sector, which he accuses of making millions in profits" ...remember Shell said they can't make money in renewables.

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You mean geo-engineering with poisonous aerosols? Good one.

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Er ...that's why people build massive solar PV  arrays - to save the planet.  But as Shell noted, you can't make big profits out of free sunshine. 

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Common knowledge, except to a blind, ff-AGW denier like you.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6887070/australia-is-about-to-get-ripped-...

"The gas industry has sold most of our cheap gas overseas. Now, it is trying to convince the Australian public that mining expensive, harder-to-get unconventional coal seam gas will bring domestic gas prices down, which is rubbish.

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Already addressed above, profits form renewables aren't enticing, as Shell  acknowleged. In fact  a globalized (public) system powered by free sunshine will deliver very cheap energy with little space for profits. 

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Full marks for seeing the correct constraint (ie, resources, not finance); but fail for idiocy re availabilty of the necessary resources.

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Haha - caught me out there - saying "may" instead of "is", nice to see you win now and again...

So is C-B a visionary? He does want to build the world's largest PV array, to save the planet...you decide.

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That's because that quote is from the Davos crowd who are waverers...for my part, I WOULD require central banks to buy the filthy ff industry, not "might require", dummy.

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Indeed it was a working large solar plant.

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Ok.... you AND the few other remaining AGW climate deniers. (geez, debating you is like herding cats.... ). 

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Dementia or low IQ or both; I said "only AGW deniers like you reject the science". 

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Correct; indeed, buying the world's ff polluters is much more than basic accounting. 

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I'll leave that to the IPCC consensus.

lee wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 2:29pm:


And why are  fracking companies using polluting chemicals?

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Again meaningless.

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And you think the people reading this thread don't know it?

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More denialism, the result of crippled brain conservative thinking. Everyone knows urban congestion with ff pollution is injurious to health. 

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Conservative crippled brain: renewables won't produce the massive profits of filthy ffs., the private sector should voluntarily exit the industry. 

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...who are pushing an AGW emergency.

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Regardless, the private sector must exit the industry. 

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Subsidization of the filthy ff industry is a crime against the public.

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Funny, coming from a conservative crippled brain.

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1. New gas is more expensive (fracking etc)
2. Science to a crippled conservative brain is moot.

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Subsization of the transition to a reneawble economy is a public good. Private profits based on filthy ffs are NOT a public good.   

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Crippled brain comprehension: we'll learn how much of the resource endowment is required to achieve 50%, and then proceed accordingly, adjusting various tecnologies as required.   

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No. I'm asking you: is building the world's largest PV array "visionary"?

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Because we can get rid of filthy fossil fuels, AND transtion to cheaper energy at the same time.

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The only "shareholders" who count in a just, timely transition are all of us.

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Crippled brain? To keep the panels clean to maximize output.

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Did you leave out the word "emergency"... deliberately, ie, fraudulently?
Or dementia or low IQ - you can't remember we have discussed that point before?

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Basic accounting is micro  economics  (book-keeping), that's why 'small government' conservatives don't undertand macroeconomics.

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And when the politics thinks it is science - game over. 

lee wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 4:15pm:


quick google

"Is fracking environmentally friendly?
Used extensively in the U.S., fracking has led to heightened concerns about its impact on the environment and human health. The process creates vast amounts of wastewater, emits greenhouse gases such as methane, releases toxic air pollutants and generates noise.30 Mar 2022"

Can you tell us where it is NOT injurious to the environment and health?

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No, I say private companies should vacate energy production, rather than nations relying on people like C-B to manage the transition.

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Your dementia, we covered the point ages ago.

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Evil crippled brain happy to injure peoples' health.

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Beat you to it, above; C-B is involved BECAUSE the private sector is still in the transition game, disastrously for the world. 

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Anything you have to say about private companies and the transition is distorted by your blind free-market ideology.  Listen carefully, the profit-seeking free market can't achieve a timely transition to renewables, by definition. 

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Subsidization steals public money to prop up ff companies - it's a crime.

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Says the guy who rejects the IPCC consensus.

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The IPCC does science; pity you only do blind ideology.

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You have to build the infrastructure first, before (some of) it needs replacing aka maintenance.

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Again crippled brain. ... you are denying there are sufficient resouces even to achieve 50%,

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Interesting, you don't want to answer the question.... very revealing.

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Crippled brain: Shell has already said otherwise, and wants to abandon renewables development. 

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because we CAN ALL BE "shareholders" of central banks spending money created ex nihilo by the Treasury, on behalf of the public sector.   Specifically, to buy and close the filthy ff industry ASAP.

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Dementia, covered previously. A currency-issuing govt. isn't constrained by costs, and indeed can command the workers it needs if necessary, to take them from useless industries like tattoos and grog and junk advertising etc.    
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Your memory capacity is worse than I thought; Listen  carefully,  AGW means  AGW emergency in this debate, we  covered that point ages ago.

"You are an AGW denier" means "you are an AGW- emergency denier,".... which you are.

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Basic accounting is not advanced accounting (like Keen used in his article; and neither describe real world macroeconmics with its vast complexity of individiual transactions.  [Keen merely showed that transactions between government and banks don't follow the orthodox "(govt.) surplus good- deficit bad" neoclassical delusion).] 

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The IPCC are scientists, so the consensus is also science-based.