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Climate change predictions 17 years ago (Read 9549 times)

lee

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Re: Climate change predictions 17 years ago
Reply #105 - Jun 13^th, 2023 at 6:49pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

Used extensively in the U.S., fracking has led to heightened concerns about its impact on the environment and human health. The process creates vast amounts of wastewater, emits greenhouse gases such as methane, releases toxic air pollutants and generates noise.30 Mar 2022"

Can you tell us where it is NOT injurious to the environment and health?

And where does it say it is currently in use? Why don't you post the link? Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

No, I say private companies should vacate energy production, rather than nations relying on people like C-B to manage the transition.

lee wrote on Jun 12^th, 2023 at 3:27pm:

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 12:14pm:
Yes- "PRIVATE comanies" ....therein lays the problem.

It was about private companies making millions in profits. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

Your dementia, we covered the point ages ago.

And we still don't know whether you believe CO2 is a poison. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

Evil crippled brain happy to injure peoples' health.

So says the one who doesn't do science. Just Believes. CO2 is a religion to you. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

Beat you to it, above; C-B is involved BECAUSE the private sector is still in the transition game, disastrously for the world.

And still nothing from you pointing to him doing it to "save the planet". Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

Anything you have to say about private companies and the transition is distorted by your blind free-market ideology. Listen carefully, the profit-seeking free market can't achieve a timely transition to renewables, by definition.

And yet you can't point to it happening outside that either. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

Subsidization steals public money to prop up ff companies - it's a crime.

So cut the subsidies to renewables. Dummy. Roll Eyes

"Energy Minister Angus Taylor noted that the Commonwealth Budget added $1.3 billion to assist uneconomic renewable energy, bringing the total support to $22 billion by 2030. Added to direct budget support are the regulatory subsidies that force consumers to pay for otherwise unviable wind and solar energy as well as the networks that have to be built to bring their energy to market. "

https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/04/renewables-subsidies-22-billion-by-2030/

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

Says the guy who rejects the IPCC consensus.

Consensus proves nothing. As I pointed out it is political, not scientific. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

The IPCC does science; pity you only do blind ideology.

The IPCC does not do science. They rely on scientists. Dummy. Roll Eyes

"The IPCC does not conduct its own research."

https://www.ipcc.ch/about/

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

You have to build the infrastructure first, before (some of) it needs replacing aka maintenance.

All of it needs replacing. So you have to have the resources to replace it...many times. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

Again crippled brain. ... you are denying there are sufficient resouces even to achieve 50%,

No. We don't know how much in the way of resources needed. You keep putting the cart before the horse. Only once we know the resources needed do we know if there are enough resources available. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

Interesting, you don't want to answer the question.... very revealing.

You were the one claiming he was "saving the planet". Your postulation, your proof. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

Crippled brain: Shell has already said otherwise, and wants to abandon renewables development.

Shell has said nothing about central banks buying FF interests. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

because we CAN ALL BE "shareholders" of central banks spending money created ex nihilo by the Treasury, on behalf of the public sector.

And so what return do we get as "shareholders". Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

Specifically, to buy and close the filthy ff industry ASAP.

So in a nutshell we fork out money and don't get a monetary return. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

Dementia, covered previously. A currency-issuing govt. isn't constrained by costs, and indeed can command the workers it needs if necessary, to take them from useless industries like tattoos and grog and junk advertising etc.

So the government can tell workers at what jobs they can work. No free will. Just communism. Dummy. Roll Eyes

TBC

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lee

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Re: Climate change predictions 17 years ago
Reply #106 - Jun 13^th, 2023 at 6:58pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

our memory capacity is worse than I thought; Listen carefully, AGW means AGW emergency in this debate, we covered that point ages ago.

You can't redefine definitions. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

"You are an AGW denier" means "you are an AGW- emergency denier,".... which you are.

Answered above. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

Basic accounting is not advanced accounting (like Keen used in his article; and neither describe real world macroeconmics with its vast complexity of individiual transactions. [

Very good. However Advanced Accounting is a part of Economics. You can't have Advanced Accounting without Basic Accounting. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

[Keen merely showed that transactions between government and banks don't follow the orthodox "(govt.) surplus good- deficit bad" neoclassical delusion).]

You previously said he used Minsky to PROVE MMT. It doesn't, he doesn't. As I said it all depends on the underlying assumptions. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

The IPCC are scientists, so the consensus is also science-based.

Answered above. The IPCC are not scientists. Read carefully what the initials stand for -

InterGOVERNMENTAL Panel On Climate Change. Capiche? Dummy. Roll Eyes

The Summary for Policy Makers can overwrite the reports. It is what politicians believe. Dummy. Roll Eyes

« Last Edit: Jun 13^th, 2023 at 7:14pm by lee »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Climate change predictions 17 years ago
Reply #107 - Jun 14^th, 2023 at 1:14pm

lee wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 6:58pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

our memory capacity is worse than I thought; Listen carefully, AGW means AGW emergency in this debate, we covered that point ages ago.

You can't redefine definitions. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm:

"You are an AGW denier" means "you are an AGW- emergency denier,".... which you are.

Answered above. Dummy. Roll Eyes

No, you are merely proving yourself to be a blind ideological recalcitrant who is forced into 'tunnel vision' literalism to defend an argument (typical of 'reading law to the letter' conservatives, also already pointed out): AGW denier means AGW- emergency denier in this debate, otherwise the IPCC and everyone else wouldn't be talking about renewables to avoid the climate emergency.

Quote:

Very good. However Advanced Accounting is a part of Economics. You can't have Advanced Accounting without Basic Accounting. Dummy. Roll Eyes

A part yes, but anyone with any understanding of money, including even apparently you, knows resources management, not money, are the constraint to a timely transition to renwables.

Btw see the latest article from Keen in the MMT thread. Brilliant.

Quote:

You previously said he used Minsky to PROVE MMT. It doesn't, he doesn't. As I said it all depends on the underlying assumptions. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Like I said, see the latest article from Keen: money is created out of nothing, and the legal currency-issuer doesn't NEED to borrow money to buy things. So MMT is proved by understanding the nature of money ie, it's a "social construct, an IOU accepted in society" (Keen)... and created in the (govt.) Treasury AND private banking sector, which Keen duly illustrates with double entry accounting. It's handy that the 'social' and 'accounting' descriptions of money arrive at the same conclusion.

Quote:

Answered above. The IPCC are not scientists. Read carefully what the initials stand for -

InterGOVERNMENTAL Panel On Climate Change. Capiche? Dummy. Roll Eyes

Just your Libertarian proclivities showing: whereas with the IPCC we see governments all following the scientific consensus.

Quote:

The Summary for Policy Makers can overwrite the reports. It is what politicians believe. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Addressed above.

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lee

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Re: Climate change predictions 17 years ago
Reply #108 - Jun 14^th, 2023 at 2:33pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 14^th, 2023 at 1:14pm:

AGW denier means AGW- emergency denier in this debate, otherwise the IPCC and everyone else wouldn't be talking about renewables to avoid the climate emergency.

They would be talking about CAGW. You know Catastrophic AGW. That is the accepted term by the afficiadoes. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 14^th, 2023 at 1:14pm:

A part yes, but anyone with any understanding of money, including even apparently you, knows resources management, not money, are the constraint to a timely transition to renwables.

So now you tell us you don't know squat. After so long. No economics at all, just a bloated blatherer with a crie d'couer. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 14^th, 2023 at 1:14pm:

Btw see the latest article from Keen in the MMT thread. Brilliant.

Why is it brilliant? Has he "proved" MMT? Dummy. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 14^th, 2023 at 1:14pm:

So MMT is proved by understanding the nature of money ie, it's a "social construct, an IOU accepted in society" (Keen)... and created in the (govt.) Treasury AND private banking sector, which Keen duly illustrates with double entry accounting. It's handy that the 'social' and 'accounting' descriptions of money arrive at the same conclusion.

Once again D-E accounting proves nothing. It relies on the underlying assumptions. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 14^th, 2023 at 1:14pm:

Just your Libertarian proclivities showing: whereas with the IPCC we see governments all following the scientific consensus.

But NOT scientists, which was your claim. And again consensus is politics not science. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 14^th, 2023 at 1:14pm:

Addressed above.

Nope. Just why should governments be allowed to overwrite the science? Dummy. Roll Eyes

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17094 Gender:	Re: Climate change predictions 17 years ago Reply #109 - Jun 18^th, 2023 at 3:53pm Poor JM. " Loss of land ice—Antarctica and Greenland" And then he posts a graph of Antarctic SEA ice extent.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17094 Gender:	Re: Climate change predictions 17 years ago Reply #110 - Jun 30^th, 2023 at 1:08pm Meanwhile we have observations. Alice Springs heat waves 1878 -2022 - No trend. But remember the science of burning Fossil Fuels said "increases in temperature could occur". So specific.
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Laugh till you cry Gold Member Offline Posts: 15897 In your happy place Gender:	Re: Climate change predictions 17 years ago Reply #111 - Jun 30^th, 2023 at 1:24pm 2 trends on the chart. 1878-1946 falling trend 1946-2022 rising trend. Lee is fact fornicator.
Back to top	Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me. IP Logged

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Climate change predictions 17 years ago Reply #112 - Jun 30^th, 2023 at 1:26pm lee wrote on Jun 30^th, 2023 at 1:08pm: Meanwhile we have observations. Alice Springs heat waves https://www.geoffstuff.com/hotalice.jpg 1878 -2022 - No trend. But remember the science of burning Fossil Fuels said "increases in temperature could occur". So specific. Interesting.
Back to top	If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free. HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415) IP Logged

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17094 Gender:	Re: Climate change predictions 17 years ago Reply #113 - Jun 30^th, 2023 at 2:21pm Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 30^th, 2023 at 1:24pm: 2 trends on the chart. There is no trend since at least 1958, better? And the fossil fuel thing was apparently "public discussion" since 1968, so not just fossil fuel companies.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Climate change predictions 17 years ago
Reply #114 - Jul 1^st, 2023 at 4:00pm

lee wrote on Jun 14^th, 2023 at 2:33pm:

But NOT scientists, which was your claim. And again consensus is politics not science. Dummy. Roll Eyes

I said the world's politicians are following the IPCC consensus, which is a consensus of CC scientists. Your conservative crippled brain is showing again. .

Quote:

Once again D-E accounting proves nothing. It relies on the underlying assumptions. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Keen: "It is simply ridiculous how much of our current politics involves being ignorant about these basic facts about money creation."

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1645944963/545#545

#545.

Your blind ideology renders you incapable of examining Keen's Minsky D-E accounting, least of all learning how money is created.

Teaching you about money is the equivalent of teaching an ISIS theologian about scriptural rectitude.

« Last Edit: Jul 1^st, 2023 at 4:13pm by thegreatdivide »

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lee

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Re: Climate change predictions 17 years ago
Reply #115 - Jul 1^st, 2023 at 5:25pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 4:00pm:

I said the world's politicians are following the IPCC consensus, which is a consensus of CC scientists.

Which consensus is that? The one where extreme weather events are not increasing? Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 4:00pm:

Keen: "It is simply ridiculous how much of our current politics involves being ignorant about these basic facts about money creation."

It is simply ridiculous someone without even Basic Accounting let alone Advanced Accounting, can pretend to understand Economics. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 4:00pm:

Your blind ideology renders you incapable of examining Keen's Minsky D-E accounting, least of all learning how money is created.

But D-E accounting, like all accounting, depends on the figures put into it. And as it is posited on a future, those figures are assumptions. Dummy. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Climate change predictions 17 years ago
Reply #116 - Jul 1^st, 2023 at 5:52pm

lee wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 5:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 4:00pm:

I said the world's politicians are following the IPCC consensus, which is a consensus of CC scientists.

Which consensus is that? The one where extreme weather events are not increasing? Dummy. Roll Eyes

Fraudulent debating. The IPCC scientific consensus. You are an outlier.

Quote:

Keen: "

It is simply ridiculous how much of our current politics involves being ignorant about these basic facts about money creation

."

It is simply ridiculous someone without even Basic Accounting let alone Advanced Accounting, can pretend to understand Economics. Dummy.

Fraudulent, low IQ debating. Keen is one of the most brilliant practitioners in the world.

Quote:

But D-E accounting, like all accounting, depends on the figures put into it. And as it is posited on a future, those figures are assumptions. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Keen's method is not "posited on a future"; it is posited on following the money trail - from its creation 'out of thin air' in national treasuries, and central and private banks - to non-bank private sector players.

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lee

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Re: Climate change predictions 17 years ago
Reply #117 - Jul 1^st, 2023 at 6:32pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 5:52pm:

Fraudulent debating. The IPCC scientific consensus. You are an outlier.

I quoted what the Physical Science Basis say. But tou are just a dummy and don't want to know. I will reiterate what they say, with references. -

"Floods - In summary there is low confidence in the human influence on the changes in high river flows on the global scale. Confidence is in general low in attributing changes in the probability or magnitude of flood events to human influence because of a limited number of studies and differences in the results of these studies, and large modelling uncertainties.

IPCC AR6 WG1 11.5.4 ( I will even translate tis for you) IPCC AR6 (the latest version) WG1 (The Physical Science Basis) Chapter 11.5.4

Droughts - There is medium confidence in the ability of ESMs to simulate trends and anomalies in precipitation deficits and AED, and also medium confidence in the ability of ESMs and hydrological models to simulate trends and anomalies in soil moisture and streamflow deficits, on global and regional scales

IPCC AR6 WG1 11.6.3.6 (similar to above but different parts of Chaper 11

Cyclones - The SREX (Chapter 3) concluded that there is low confidence in observed long-term (40 years or more) trends in TC intensity, frequency, and duration

IPCC AR6 WG1 11.7 Similar to above.

Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 5:52pm:

Keen's method is not "posited on a future";

So he is using 2017 prices to prove his point? Grin

"At this time, Keen’s Minsky Model is able to model a simple “corn economy” of the GDP of an individual nation. "

https://www.boldbusiness.com/human-achievement/minsky-model-new-dynamic-revoluti...

You really are a joke. Dummy. Roll Eyes

In fact if you download the program, which I just did, one of the buttons is "Assumptions". Grin

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Climate change predictions 17 years ago
Reply #118 - Jul 2^nd, 2023 at 12:33pm

lee wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 6:32pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 1^st, 2023 at 5:52pm:

Fraudulent debating. The IPCC scientific consensus. You are an outlier.

I quoted what the Physical Science Basis say.

Ok, now you just have to get what they say to align with what the IPCC scientific consensus says.

Good luck....

Quote:

So he is using 2017 prices to prove his point? Grin

One can use ANY particular year's figures to prove the point, namely, govt fiat deficits are a BENEFIT to the private sector

Quote:

Er....models of complex systems (like global climate and the macroeconomy) necesarily involve simplification to allow mathematical analysis.

cf common sense analysis eg

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1645944963/new

#546

Tweet:

#MMT: MoralMoneyTime
@samvega

1. The only deficit that counts is government 'deficit' of its own fiat money that, by fiat, it creates inexhaustibly. 🤪

2. Deficits of air, water, work, opportunity, schools, healthcare, biodiversity... are to be ignored.

~ mainstream economists and neoliberal politicians.

Quote:

You really are a joke. Dummy. Roll Eyes

Says the blind 'sovereign individual'/ 'survival of the fittest' ideologue.

Quote:

In fact if you download the program, which I just did, one of the buttons is "Assumptions". Grin

Yes, as is necessary for simplication of data to allow mathematical analysis of almost infinitely complex systems.

« Last Edit: Jul 2^nd, 2023 at 12:41pm by thegreatdivide »

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lee

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Re: Climate change predictions 17 years ago
Reply #119 - Jul 2^nd, 2023 at 12:49pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2023 at 12:33pm:

Ok, now you just have to get what they say to align with what the IPCC scientific consensus says.

You are the one saying he listens to the IPCC experts. Dummy. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2023 at 12:33pm:

One can use ANY particular year's figures to prove the point, namely, govt fiat deficits are a BENEFIT to the private sector

Nope. You need to factor in price rises in commodities. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2023 at 12:33pm:

Er....models of complex systems (like global climate and the macroeconomy) necesarily involve simplification to allow mathematical analysis.

Simplification doesn't work on complex problems. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2023 at 12:33pm:

Says the blind 'sovereign individual'/ 'survival of the fittest' ideologue.

So you really don't know what you are talking about. Thanks for that. Dummy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2023 at 12:33pm:

Yes, as is necessary for simplication of data to allow mathematical analysis of almost infinitely complex systems.

How many assumptions (also known as parameters)?

"With four parameters I can fit an elephant, and with five I can make him wiggle his trunk." John von Neumann

You are such a dummy. Roll Eyes

Simplification of a complex problem only gives a generic result, entireley dependent on the underlying assumptions. Dummy. Roll Eyes

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