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The F35 environment (Read 3639 times)
Bobby.
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The F35 environment
Mar 13th, 2021 at 8:36am
 
The F-35 tells everything that's broken in the Pentagon


...


https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/542412-the-f-35-tells-everything-t...

By Sean McFate, opinion contributor — 03/11/21 01:00 PM EST

It’s official: The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is a “rathole” of taxpayer money, something defense experts already knew — at least those without dubious ties to the military industrial blob. Now the House Armed Services Committee chairman has joined the ranks of the outraged, saying that when he thinks about the F-35, he thinks about “failure on a massive freaking scale.”

The F-35 is an allegory for everything that’s broken in our Department of Defense, which receives more money than the rest of the federal interagency, combined. In fact, we spend more on our armed forces than the next 10 biggest militaries in the world, combined. What are we getting for our tax dollars? Unfortunately, the F-35.

Budgets are moral documents because they do not lie. The F-35 is the most expensive weapon in history, with a projected lifetime cost of $1.7 trillion. That’s more than Russia’s GDP, all spent on a single-seat plane. In fact, if this aircraft were a country, its GDP would rank 11th in the world, ahead of Saudi Arabia. Buying one costs around $110 million a copy, nearly double the price of a Boeing 737-600 airliner. F-35s are also expensive to fly. Each hour in the air costs $44,000, more than twice the cost of the F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon and F/A-18 Super Hornet.


The irrationality of the F-35 goes beyond the price tag — the plane is superfluous. It was devised as a flying Swiss Army knife that could meet the needs of the Air Force, Navy, Marines and Army. Instead, it proves the adage that a camel is a horse designed by committee. It is true that the F-35 can engage in dogfights, drop bombs and spy — just not well. Older aircraft remain better than F-35s at all these tasks. Dedicated bombers can fly farther with larger payloads. The A-10 Thunderbolt, an aircraft introduced in 1977, is better at ground support missions.

Astonishingly, the F-35 cannot dogfight, the crux of any fighter jet. According to test pilots, the F-35 is “substantially inferior” to the 40-year-old F-15 fighter jet in mock air battles. The F-35 could not turn or climb fast enough to hit an enemy plane or dodge enemy gunfire. Similarly, the F-35 struggled to get a clean shot at a 1980s-vintage F-16. The older aircraft easily maneuvered behind the F-35 for a clear shot, even sneaking up on the “stealth” jet. Despite the F-35s vaunted abilities, it was blown out of the sky in multiple tests.

Those who live by technology die by it too. Unsurprisingly, the F-35’s 8 million lines of code are buggy, as are the 24 million lines running the aircraft’s maintenance and logistics software on the ground. Sometimes pilots have to press Ctrl+Alt+Delete while in flight to reboot the multimillion-dollar radar. The F-35 computer code, government auditors say, is “as complicated as anything on earth.” What can be coded can also be hacked, another vulnerability for the F-35.

Hacked or not, buggy computer code grounds aircraft, as does the perpetual shortage of spare parts and critical design flaws that can, for example, melt the plane in flight. Currently, the F-35 fleet is receiving a projected $16 billion software upgrade and other components that are already two years behind schedule and $1.5 billion over budget. The plane’s builder, Lockheed Martin, claims that it could reduce problems — but only if it’s awarded an exclusive maintenance contract. Eisenhower would be spinning in his grave. Or, as a former Pentagon chief weapons buyer put it, the F-35 is “acquisitions malpractice.”   
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Bobby.
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Re: The F35 environment
Reply #1 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 8:37am
 
continued:

As a war machine, the F-35 is already obsolete junk. The measure of any weapon’s value is its utility. The United States has been at war continuously since Sept. 11, 2001, yet the F-35 has flown zero combat missions. Zero. When I was a paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne, we would say: “That dog don’t hunt.” Perhaps sensitive to the F-35’s disgraceful war record, in 2018 the Pentagon sent a few on missions in Afghanistan and Iraq to notch up combat cred. Never mind that their help comes 15 years too late; the super-expensive F-35 was not designed to take out a weapons cache or a terrorist on a moped. Also, as any grunt will tell you, it’s not “combat” if the enemy can’t shoot back. If engine failure is the biggest threat to survival, then the F-35 might as well be flying over Kansas. Nor is this super-weapon deterring Russian, Chinese or Iranian expansionism.

The F-35 is a hanger queen. As of January, the F-35 was still struggling to meet its goal mission-capable rate, which is the percentage of aircraft that can meet at least one assigned mission. Only 69 percent met the threshold, well short of the military’s longstanding 80 percent goal. For some reason, Congress wants to buy hundreds more, and make our allies do the same. Not every ally is happy about it.

    Overnight Defense: Tucker Carlson comments cause military rage |...
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Given all the headaches, the Air Force is quietly considering alternatives to the $1.7 trillion flying lemon. But it’s time to think bigger. There has not been a strategic dogfight since the Korean War, so why are more fighter jets needed — especially manned ones? We already possess the best Air Force — and military — in the world. We have enjoyed combat overmatch against all our enemies for 70 years, yet we have not won a major war since 1945. If we are honest, something is wrong with our strategic IQ, and it’s not something the F-35 can fix.

We do not need more exquisite weapon systems, such as the F-35, that are useless in modern war and cost the GDP of large nations. Instead, we need other things: a higher strategic IQ, savvier diplomacy, and the ability to fight wars “beneath the threshold of war.” Today, some of the best weapons do not fire bullets, so let’s invest there. For example, we should achieve “information overmatch” against disinformation superpowers like Russia, Iran and China. This is not a military mission alone, and we need to fund other departments that are crucial to maintaining American leadership abroad. Cutting the F-35 would be a good start. 

Sean McFate is the author of five books, including “The New Rules of War: How America Can Win — Against Russia, China, and Other Threats” (2019). He is a professor at Georgetown University and an adviser to Oxford University’s Centre for Technology and Global Affairs. He served in the U.S. Army’s 82nd Airborne Division. Follow him on Twitter @seanmcfate.
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Bobby.
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Re: The F35 environment
Reply #2 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 8:38am
 
I doubt that it's quite that bad.
Israel has used them in combat in Syria.   Undecided
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Bias_2012
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Re: The F35 environment
Reply #3 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 9:12am
 
Why are we buying them? We can't afford a lemon like that. We should cancel the order before we go completely broke
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Re: The F35 environment
Reply #4 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 10:26am
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 9:12am:
Why are we buying them? We can't afford a lemon like that. We should cancel the order before we go completely broke


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  McFate is a true ground pounder with a ground pounder's ideas on what constitutes "warfare".  He is dismissive of the F-35's abilities which he obviously doesn't understand.  It is stealthy - "stealthy" means it is invisible to radar and to a lesser extent, infra-red tracking systems.  It is part of an integrated systems approach to warfare - which means it is part of a system which is combined to create a package of aircraft that can outmanoeuvre enemy aircraft strategically.  It has advanced EO (Electro-Optics) system which effectively allows the pilot to "see through" the aircraft and which automatically spots any missile launches against it.  It has an advanced mission management system which allows it to integrate closely and automatically with AEW&C aircraft.   

Basically it is a generation ahead of any aircraft presently flying, including the F-22.  The days that fighter aircraft take on one another, individually died at the end of WWI and was effectively killed in WWII.  Today, fighters fight as a unit, not single planes.   This ability has all come at a cost.  Fighters are the top of the line aircraft and so cost more than bombers and CAS aircraft.   

The reason why we, Australia, is buying these aircraft is because there isn't anything out there that even comes close to the F-35 in capability. No Russian, no Chinese, no British, no Japanese, nothing.  RAAF has long attempted to structure itself as a leading air force in our region.  We purchased the F-86/CA-27, the Mirage IIIO, the F-111 and the F/A-18 because they were better than what anybody else had, in the region.  The F-35 continues that trend.

Now, Bobby, why isn't this in the Defence Forum?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: The F35 environment
Reply #5 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 1:19pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 10:26am:
Now, Bobby, why isn't this in the Defence Forum?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Because not only me but other posters have complained
that you delete on topic posts at your MRB.
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lee
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Re: The F35 environment
Reply #6 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 3:35pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 10:26am:
It is stealthy - "stealthy" means it is invisible to radar and to a lesser extent, infra-red tracking systems.


perhaps not.

"“Invisible”? Apparently Not – F-35 Stealth Fighter Tracked by Website in Real Time"

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/f-35-stealth-fighter-plane.html

"Experimental German radar 'tracked two U.S. F-35 stealth jet for 100 MILES' after lying in wait on a pony farm to catch them flying home from airshow"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7522413/German-radar-tracked-two...



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Re: The F35 environment
Reply #7 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 3:57pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 3:35pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 10:26am:
It is stealthy - "stealthy" means it is invisible to radar and to a lesser extent, infra-red tracking systems.


perhaps not.

"“Invisible”? Apparently Not – F-35 Stealth Fighter Tracked by Website in Real Time"

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/f-35-stealth-fighter-plane.html

"Experimental German radar 'tracked two U.S. F-35 stealth jet for 100 MILES' after lying in wait on a pony farm to catch them flying home from airshow"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7522413/German-radar-tracked-two...




So - not so stealthy as they say.  Wink
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Bias_2012
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Re: The F35 environment
Reply #8 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 4:17pm
 
If the Americans complain about them, and there's been a few, why wouldn't we suffer from the F35's shortcomings? The massive cost of these planes will escalate over time, like everything else that goes over budget

They've been "pushed" onto allies of the US, if the OP is correct. There'd be only one reason for that, getting the allies to share in the mega billions of dollars of development of the F35. We are suckers, these planes will lie idle in hangers for long periods, just because the NWO think we should have them. They cost a mint to fly them for just one hour, A$50,000. How many are we getting, 70 or so
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Re: The F35 environment
Reply #9 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 4:20pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 4:17pm:
If the Americans complain about them, and there's been a few, why wouldn't we suffer from the F35's shortcomings? The massive cost of these planes will escalate over time, like everything else that goes over budget

They've been "pushed" onto allies of the US, if the OP is correct. There'd be only one reason for that, getting the allies to share in the mega billions of dollars of development of the F35. We are suckers, these planes will lie idle in hangers for long periods, just because the NWO think we should have them. They cost a mint to fly them for just one hour, A$50,000. How many are we getting, 70 or so



Also - the F111s had a much greater range.
We need range with such a large country.
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Brian Ross
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Re: The F35 environment
Reply #10 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 4:25pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 1:19pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 10:26am:
Now, Bobby, why isn't this in the Defence Forum?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Because not only me but other posters have complained
that you delete on topic posts at your MRB.


The rules are there, Bobby.  If you cannot accept them, that is your look out.  Creating threads in a forum which is not where defence should be discussed is childish, as childish as your posting of Racist cartoons...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: The F35 environment
Reply #11 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 4:28pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 3:35pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 10:26am:
It is stealthy - "stealthy" means it is invisible to radar and to a lesser extent, infra-red tracking systems.


perhaps not.

"“Invisible”? Apparently Not – F-35 Stealth Fighter Tracked by Website in Real Time"

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/f-35-stealth-fighter-plane.html

"Experimental German radar 'tracked two U.S. F-35 stealth jet for 100 MILES' after lying in wait on a pony farm to catch them flying home from airshow"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7522413/German-radar-tracked-two...


The F-35s had their transponders switched on, Lee.  Why do you think that was?  Perhaps because ATC had to track where they were, whereas in wartime, they'd turn it off, to confuse the enemy as to where their location was.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bobby.
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Re: The F35 environment
Reply #12 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 4:31pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 4:25pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 1:19pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 10:26am:
Now, Bobby, why isn't this in the Defence Forum?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Because not only me but other posters have complained
that you delete on topic posts at your MRB.


The rules are there, Bobby.  If you cannot accept them, that is your look out.  Creating threads in a forum which is not where defence should be discussed is childish, as childish as your posting of Racist cartoons...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Not as childish as deleting on topic posts
because you don't like them.
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Re: The F35 environment
Reply #13 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 4:33pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 4:17pm:
If the Americans complain about them, and there's been a few, why wouldn't we suffer from the F35's shortcomings? The massive cost of these planes will escalate over time, like everything else that goes over budget

They've been "pushed" onto allies of the US, if the OP is correct. There'd be only one reason for that, getting the allies to share in the mega billions of dollars of development of the F35. We are suckers, these planes will lie idle in hangers for long periods, just because the NWO think we should have them. They cost a mint to fly them for just one hour, A$50,000. How many are we getting, 70 or so


And here is something I challenge all critics of the F-35 programme with. "What alternatives are there, which are as effective and as advanced as the F-35 which are available to the RAAF?"  Well, here's a chance to hear your suggestions.  There is nothing as developed and as available as the F-35 programme.  The only way to take part in it is either hand over oodles and oodles of cash or hand over a lot less and be a part of the construction programme.   The Russian Su57 is not as advanced.  The Chinese J-20 fighter is not as advanced. The BAe Tempest is no where ready to fly.  Those are the only three stealth fighters available.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bobby.
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Re: The F35 environment
Reply #14 - Mar 13th, 2021 at 4:33pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 4:28pm:
lee wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 3:35pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 13th, 2021 at 10:26am:
It is stealthy - "stealthy" means it is invisible to radar and to a lesser extent, infra-red tracking systems.


perhaps not.

"“Invisible”? Apparently Not – F-35 Stealth Fighter Tracked by Website in Real Time"

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/f-35-stealth-fighter-plane.html

"Experimental German radar 'tracked two U.S. F-35 stealth jet for 100 MILES' after lying in wait on a pony farm to catch them flying home from airshow"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7522413/German-radar-tracked-two...


The F-35s had their transponders switched on, Lee.  Why do you think that was?  Perhaps because ATC had to track where they were, whereas in wartime, they'd turn it off, to confuse the enemy as to where their location was.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



The person on the ground was picking up other radar reflections
that had reflected off the skin of the aircraft.
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