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Dutton as Defence Minister (Read 2558 times)
Vic
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Dutton as Defence Minister
Mar 29th, 2021 at 12:32pm
 
During my nearly 40 years in Defence, first reaching WO the taking a Commision, I have seen and experience first hand, the excellent Human Resources/Management/Dealing with People course Defence run.  In the last decade in particular, Warrant Officers and Officers are much more able to deal with issues, personalities and especially the media than before.   Senior Officers receive even more training to prepare them fo sensitive  agenda like Senate Estimates and how to deal with Politicians in particular.    When a new Defence Minister is announced, the Defence machine springs quickly into action to determine the best way to impress a Minister and mould him/her to what Defence want.  Sometimes  it can be as easy as a lot of pompous ingratiating ceremony wherever the pollie goes.   Fly in a jet, a dive on a submarine, a night roughing it in the bush, all media and defence handled.    Without knowing it, a defence minister can be easily pulled into the net, ready for processing and soon at the mercy of Defence.  Sign this, do that, promote her/him, do as your told.       For the last few Defence Miniters that has most probably been achieved.

Dutton I think would be different.   I don’t think the Defence Machine will take him easily and he could spell danger for those selected for the top jobs in their respective services and as VCDF and CDF.  I think he would be a demanding minister and want full outlines of military decisions.  I definitely don’t see him as one of the boys and see him keeping a well arms length from uniforms and concentrating more on Defence doing what it is told to do, rather than what defence says it wants to do.       I think he would do a great job as Defence Minister, but he will face an uphill battle with Defence uniforms as he pushes agenda through.
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« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2021 at 2:54pm by Brian Ross »  

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Re: Hypothetical- Dutton as Defence Minister
Reply #1 - Mar 29th, 2021 at 2:12pm
 
il Duce' as Minister of Defence?  Yea, gods, no.  He'd want defence to invade Indonesia the first chance he got.  He'd install his sycophants and Defence would be a disaster for at least a decade.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Frank
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Re: Hypothetical- Dutton as Defence Minister
Reply #2 - Mar 29th, 2021 at 4:01pm
 
Vic wrote on Mar 29th, 2021 at 12:32pm:
During my nearly 40 years in Defence, first reaching WO the taking a Commision, I have seen and experience first hand, the excellent Human Resources/Management/Dealing with People course Defence run.  In the last decade in particular, Warrant Officers and Officers are much more able to deal with issues, personalities and especially the media than before.   Senior Officers receive even more training to prepare them fo sensitive  agenda like Senate Estimates and how to deal with Politicians in particular.    When a new Defence Minister is announced, the Defence machine springs quickly into action to determine the best way to impress a Minister and mould him/her to what Defence want.  Sometimes  it can be as easy as a lot of pompous ingratiating ceremony wherever the pollie goes.   Fly in a jet, a dive on a submarine, a night roughing it in the bush, all media and defence handled.    Without knowing it, a defence minister can be easily pulled into the net, ready for processing and soon at the mercy of Defence.  Sign this, do that, promote her/him, do as your told.       For the last few Defence Miniters that has most probably been achieved.

Dutton I think would be different.   I don’t think the Defence Machine will take him easily and he could spell danger for those selected for the top jobs in their respective services and as VCDF and CDF.  I think he would be a demanding minister and want full outlines of military decisions.  I definitely don’t see him as one of the boys and see him keeping a well arms length from uniforms and concentrating more on Defence doing what it is told to do, rather than what defence says it wants to do.       I think he would do a great job as Defence Minister, but he will face an uphill battle with Defence uniforms as he pushes agenda through.

I think that's a fair assessment.

Looking at the people who hate him makes me confident about Dutton's  ability to perform well.

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Re: Hypothetical- Dutton as Defence Minister
Reply #3 - Mar 29th, 2021 at 6:58pm
 
Good. Dutton would join the Papuans, Philipinos, Timorese, Melanesian Islands, Balinese and Indigenous Indos against the Indonesian Moslems when the time soon comes.
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Re: Hypothetical- Dutton as Defence Minister
Reply #4 - Mar 29th, 2021 at 7:42pm
 
Quote:
Hypothetical- Dutton as Defence Minister


I can see him with a lead role in the Mr Potato head movie ?

Not much else though.

As de Fence Minister he may be able to do a job with de palings.
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Re: Hypothetical- Dutton as Defence Minister
Reply #5 - Mar 30th, 2021 at 11:45am
 
No longer hypothetical. Let's see what the future brings.
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Re: Hypothetical- Dutton as Defence Minister
Reply #6 - Mar 30th, 2021 at 12:48pm
 
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Re: Hypothetical- Dutton as Defence Minister
Reply #7 - Mar 30th, 2021 at 1:24pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Mar 30th, 2021 at 11:45am:
No longer hypothetical. Let's see what the future brings.



I think Dutton will sort them out.    I am far from a Liberal Supporter but in this case the right choice has been made.     In his previous portfolio, Dutton had a huge amount of power, and could basically do want he liked.  I see defence as a lessening of that power, but an increase in status.    He will need to get in on the ground running and be prepared to shirtfront the bosses of the services - it won't be easy and he had better be prepared to stand his ground.  I just hope the Defence Secretary is of similar attitude with the mandarins that head the public service side of defence.     There needs to be an absolute clean out of both sides.
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Re: Hypothetical- Dutton as Defence Minister
Reply #8 - Mar 30th, 2021 at 2:24pm
 
  • Change all uniforms to a nice black colour
  • Organise march on Canberra
  • Seize Government
  • Attack Indonesia

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Hypothetical- Dutton as Defence Minister
Reply #9 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 9:33am
 
The Morrison government’s decision to establish a missile manufacturing industry is one of our nation’s most important strategic decisions in decades.

Of course, we have to be watchful of the distance between announcement and delivery. But the government is proceeding with real urgency. That is fantastic, for nothing has been more lacking in defence over the past 15 years than urgency.

Peter Dutton has a chance to be a significant defence minister after a long trail of spectacularly unimpressive defence minister performances. Since Kevin Rudd’s election in 2007 we have had as defence minister Joel Fitzgibbon, John Faulkner, Stephen Smith, David Johnston, Kevin Andrews, Marise Payne, Christopher Pyne, Linda Reynolds and now Dutton.

Poor fellow, my country. That’s nine defence ministers in 14 years. That’s nuts.

Some of those ministers were capable but were in the job for only five minutes. Defence policy was at its worst under Rudd and Julia Gillard. Defence spending fell to its all-time historic low, not a single Australian ship was commissioned and nothing was done towards getting new submarines.

Tony Abbott’s biggest single mistake was appointing Johnston as defence minister, just as Morrison’s biggest mistake was appointing Reynolds. Both of them good people, neither was remotely up to the job. Their political failures became policy failures. Importantly, neither had any capacity to draw a national debate, or a defence program, back to order if it went awry.

To appoint such ineffective people to such a critically important position reflects poorly on the prime ministers who made those appointments.

Still, the past is a foreign country and, as Lenin had it, the only question that counts is: what is to be done?

Should Morrison win re-election it would be a good thing for the nation if Dutton settled in to defence for at least another full parliamentary term. Defence could certainly do with a strong minister who stayed in place for several years.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/what-peter-dutton-needs-to-do-as-defence-minister/news-story/2eaa685542b0e382a800cabe5f7ff731
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Re: Hypothetical- Dutton as Defence Minister
Reply #10 - Apr 2nd, 2021 at 10:23am
 
maybe a very small fence ?
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Frank
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Re: Hypothetical- Dutton as Defence Minister
Reply #11 - Apr 8th, 2021 at 10:27pm
 
Vic wrote on Mar 30th, 2021 at 1:24pm:
Belgarion wrote on Mar 30th, 2021 at 11:45am:
No longer hypothetical. Let's see what the future brings.



I think Dutton will sort them out.    I am far from a Liberal Supporter but in this case the right choice has been made.     In his previous portfolio, Dutton had a huge amount of power, and could basically do want he liked.  I see defence as a lessening of that power, but an increase in status.    He will need to get in on the ground running and be prepared to shirtfront the bosses of the services - it won't be easy and he had better be prepared to stand his ground.  I just hope the Defence Secretary is of similar attitude with the mandarins that head the public service side of defence.     There needs to be an absolute clean out of both sides.

You are right.




“My message is we are getting back to business. That business is more important than ever, and that business is to keep Australia safe and secure.”

Mr Dutton said he had told the Chief of the Defence Force Angus Campbell and the secretary of his department, Greg Moriarty, in their first meeting following his late-March appointment, to provide all available support to the troops and get major procurement programs back on track.

“There are priorities that we will focus on which will make it very clear to our troops that the government has their back,” he said.





Dutton is right to say they represent the best of our nation. They do not exist as an arm of exemplary social policy. They are not required to be the wokest force on the planet.  They are required to master the application of deadly force to protect the peace.  The combination of their character, their courage, their training and their equipment needs to deter those who would do us harm. This is the clearest statement of purpose a defence minister has made in a long time.


Just so.

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Re: Hypothetical- Dutton as Defence Minister
Reply #12 - Apr 13th, 2021 at 1:16am
 
Well - I guess that finishes the sheilas for forces campaign..... Campbell made such headway by adopting that one....

Now it seems we need combat troops and not their mythical peacetime military.

(jibe)  I suppose once Labor takes over, they'll re-introduce the draft for the Serfs - the men - of Australia - so they can go forth half-prepared, under-motivated, demoralised, and entirely unsupported by their feminist masters(sic)... and confront the enemy armed with Woke ideas and ideals.....


... the problem here isn't big wings or small wings for the angels.... I need pilots... the simple facts are that our young men must shoot down their Woke young men at the rate of four to one if we are to even keep pace........... I need pilots....
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Re: Hypothetical- Dutton as Defence Minister
Reply #13 - Apr 13th, 2021 at 1:25pm
 
Vietnam proved that Conscription is a non-event for Australian society, unless Australia is facing an existential crisis.  Conscripts did quite well in that war but the people back home didn't like the idea of their sons being sent off to possibly die in a foreign war that was really no concern of Australia.  They were unable to vote to for their their fates.  This of course led to the voting age being reduced to 18, rather than 21.  Conscription is such a thorny subject no major Australian Political Party would touch it with a six foot pole.  Il Duce' Dutton is a lunatic but even he would be prevented from trying it by Scotty from Marketing. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Hypothetical- Dutton as Defence Minister
Reply #14 - Apr 13th, 2021 at 11:57pm
 
In the event of a major crisis - conscription is the only way to get enough boots on feet... though the time available to bring troops and such up to speed may not be available in any foreseeable future conflict, so our immediate resources will need to hold the line.... for which we will need the high tech power of our major alliance partners... and new alliances are forming as we speak....

In view of the speed with which any future crisis may develop - we need a stronger and higher tech permanent military now... so conscription is a last resort...

Any dust-up with a 'major Asian mainland power' will be naval and air - which will pretty much decide the outcome..... either one will be contained and set back, or the other's cordon broken so as to permit extrusion by armed forces from the mainland.

Of course - extending a network westwards (by a 'major Asian mainland power) is another way of striking out and threatening energy resources .... autobahns and eisenbahns are notoriously difficult to take out - and easy to repair with massive manpower......unless you are prepared to do what was proposed with the Ho Chi Minh trail... sow it with radioactive waste... carpet bombing a stretch of road or rail is useless unless you can permanently interdict it... and prevent repair.


"Mr Dutton!  What do you propose to do about defence?"

"I'm going to send de man with de hammer and nails to fix it!"
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