Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 9 10 11 12 13 ... 29
Send Topic Print
Western Culture (Read 39309 times)
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 12084
Gender: male
Re: Western Culture
Reply #150 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 10:39am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 10:30am:
Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 2:07am:
It IS Brian! He slipped up a few times actually.

I just kept stringing him along until his slips became more apparent.

Anyway....a few of us were onto him from the get go.

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1583380619/1890


That's not debate either. Blind sovereign individual ideologues like you and Frank often escape into trivial commentary like yours above. 

Did you even think about commenting on Liddle's article?

Given the importance of confirming your debate is in good faith, and not dictated by the Chinese security bureau:

Are you a Chinese national? Are you posting from China?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Lisa Jones
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female
Re: Western Culture
Reply #151 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 10:41am
 
Awww poor Brian has been exposed as Greatdivide 😂🤣😆

Here are your tissues.

Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 12084
Gender: male
Re: Western Culture
Reply #152 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 10:57am
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 10:41am:
Awww poor Brian has been exposed as Greatdivide 😂🤣😆

Here are your tissues.


I don't believe Brian is TheGreatDivide.

I suspect that TheGreatDivide is a Chinese national posting approved CCP propaganda out of China or (worse) posting on behalf of the CCP out of Australia.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
thegreatdivide
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12586
Gender: male
Re: Western Culture
Reply #153 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 11:26am
 
Frank wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 7:02am:
I "tried", did I??

dialectical materialism, a philosophical approach to reality derived from the writings of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. For Marx and Engels, materialism meant that the material world, perceptible to the senses, has objective reality independent of mind or spirit. They did not deny the reality of mental or spiritual processes but affirmed that ideas could arise, therefore, only as products and reflections of material conditions.


Yes; and does that preclude hunter-gatherers looking up at the night sky and inventing dream time myths?

Quote:
Marx and Engels understood materialism as the opposite of idealism, by which they meant any theory that treats matter as dependent on mind or spirit, or mind or spirit as capable of existing independently of matter.


Matter of course is NOT dependent on mind or spirit; the latter evolved from matter in an originally unconscious universe - except if we posit an eternal creator ie 'eternal consciousness' existing before the 'big bang'. 

Quote:
For them, the materialist and idealist views were irreconcilably opposed throughout the historical development of philosophy.


Well as noted above, materialism is a fact which preceded consciousness and hence idealism. Consciousness evolved, reaching its highest forms in the human cerebral cortex which perceives 'fairness' and 'justice', concepts which don't exist in the non-human natural world. 

Quote:
They adopted a thoroughgoing materialist approach, holding that any attempt to combine or reconcile materialism with idealism must result in confusion and inconsistency.


Well I am a little confused with that sentence....

Quote:
Marx’s and Engels’ conception of dialectics owes much to the German idealist philosopher G.W.F. Hegel.


Idealism: the concept of a just and fair world? 

Quote:
In opposition to the “metaphysical” mode of thought, which viewed things in abstraction, each by itself and as though endowed with fixed properties, Hegelian dialectics considers things in their movements and changes, interrelations and interactions. Everything is in continual process of becoming and ceasing to be, in which nothing is permanent but everything changes and is eventually superseded. All things contain contradictory sides or aspects, whose tension or conflict is the driving force of change and eventually transforms or dissolves them.


NOW I am confused.....but let's read on:

Quote:
But whereas Hegel saw change and development as the expression of the world spirit, or Idea, realizing itself in nature and in human society,


Ahha...so the 'world spirit/idea' existed before nature....

Quote:
for Marx and Engels change was inherent in the nature of the material world.


I don't see mutual exclusivity between the two ideas

Quote:
They therefore held that one could not, as Hegel tried, deduce the actual course of events from any “principles of dialectics”; the principles must be inferred from the events.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/dialectical-materialism


So, you can't deduce the course of events from logic as asserted by Hegel, the logic must be inferred from the events.

Yes well, as I have shown in my commentary, ideas reside in consciousness, and consciousness is introduced into the universe, either by God or by spontaneous evolution of ever increasingly complex life forms.

So where does this leave us?

Well I'm still able to assert the idea of 'fairness' - a concern of Marx - is innate in humans and not dependent on social engineering.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bias_2012
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 10766
Gender: male
Re: Western Culture
Reply #154 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 11:29am
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 10:41am:
Awww poor Brian has been exposed as Greatdivide



I don't think so Lisa, they're two entirely different characters, obviously with different agendas


thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 10th, 2022 at 9:55pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 10th, 2022 at 9:12pm:
Ok. but what is cultivation without first having the idea of it?


Serendipity.



Would you like to go into more detail?

serendipity |ˌserənˈdipitē|
noun
the occurrence and development of events by chance in a happy or beneficial way : a fortunate stroke of serendipity | a series of small serendipities.


Is there something wrong with serendipity, if it benefits society, any society at all?
Back to top
 

Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable
 
IP Logged
 
thegreatdivide
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12586
Gender: male
Re: Western Culture
Reply #155 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 11:38am
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 11:29am:
Would you like to go into more detail?

serendipity |ˌserənˈdipitē|
noun
the occurrence and development of events by chance in a happy or beneficial way : a fortunate stroke of serendipity | a series of small serendipities.


Someone discovered the seeds of certain grasses were edible....serendipity? That's what gave rise to the idea of cultivation.

Quote:
Is there something wrong with serendipity, if it benefits society, any society at all?


Not at all; we would probably still be living in the stone age without it.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
thegreatdivide
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12586
Gender: male
Re: Western Culture
Reply #156 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 11:46am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 10:39am:
Given the importance of confirming your debate is in good faith...


Rest assured, I always debate in good faith...unlike many name-callers here.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 12084
Gender: male
Re: Western Culture
Reply #157 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 12:29pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 11:46am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 10:39am:
Given the importance of confirming your debate is in good faith...


Rest assured, I always debate in good faith.

Not if you have been directed to post only pro-CCP propaganda.

Are you a Chinese national? Are you posting from China?

You seem to have a problem answering these questions.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Lisa Jones
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female
Re: Western Culture
Reply #158 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 1:11pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 10:57am:
Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 10:41am:
Awww poor Brian has been exposed as Greatdivide 😂🤣😆

Here are your tissues.


I don't believe Brian is TheGreatDivide.

I suspect that TheGreatDivide is a Chinese national posting approved CCP propaganda out of China or (worse) posting on behalf of the CCP out of Australia.



TheGreatDivide also shares the LaughTilICry id too.
Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
IP Logged
 
thegreatdivide
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12586
Gender: male
Re: Western Culture
Reply #159 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 1:19pm
 
For those interested in debate (unlike Lisa)

eg 'Western culture'...... when China becomes the largest economy in the world:

https://academic.oup.com/cjip/article/11/1/1/4844055

Chinese Values vs. Liberalism: What Ideology Will Shape the International Normative Order?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bias_2012
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 10766
Gender: male
Re: Western Culture
Reply #160 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 1:47pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 12:29pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 11:46am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 10:39am:
Given the importance of confirming your debate is in good faith...


Rest assured, I always debate in good faith.

Not if you have been directed to post only pro-CCP propaganda.

Are you a Chinese national? Are you posting from China?

You seem to have a problem answering these questions.


It's not necessary for thegreatdivide to answer those personal questions. A poster only has to stay on topic to debate in good faith

The dividing line between Western Culture and Eastern Culture/Socialism is becoming blurred

For example ...

...

https://click.comms.service.nsw.gov.au/?qs=48a11cd6bc2d89da1cb10c481d45b0e76114a...

New generations in Iceland etc might get the impression that Australia has tigers, and, as Rome conquered Carthage, China has now conquering nations in the South Pacific




Back to top
 

Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable
 
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 12084
Gender: male
Re: Western Culture
Reply #161 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 2:01pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 1:47pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 12:29pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 11:46am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 10:39am:
Given the importance of confirming your debate is in good faith...


Rest assured, I always debate in good faith.

Not if you have been directed to post only pro-CCP propaganda.

Are you a Chinese national? Are you posting from China?

You seem to have a problem answering these questions.


It's not necessary for thegreatdivide to answer those personal questions. A poster only has to stay on topic to debate in good faith

The dividing line between Western Culture and Eastern Culture/Socialism is becoming blurred

For example ...

Given the CCP is an enemy regime of the Australian people, his status as a Chinese national posting in China should be open to questioning. Those posters cannot post on or read international sites without permission. Anything he does post must be state-approved via the CCP security bureau. It must be approved propaganda not his personal opinion.

He is not being asked to provide information that personally identifies him.


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
thegreatdivide
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 12586
Gender: male
Re: Western Culture
Reply #162 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 2:36pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 2:01pm:
Given the CCP is an enemy regime of the Australian people..
.

BS. Xi himself spoke in the Oz parliament less than a decade ago.

What's happened since then is China keeps doubling its wealth every 10 years, so that we now see the paranoid Western sovereign individual ideologues tilting at windmills in a big way.

China woke up fast when their first internationally competitive world-leading technology company Huawei was banned on trumped-up national security grounds, and China indeed felt slighted, and now they are feeling entitled to react to such slights.

Bur your assertion China is "an enemy regime of the Australian people" is sheer ideological evil.  Well done.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 12084
Gender: male
Re: Western Culture
Reply #163 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 2:44pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 2:36pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 2:01pm:
Given the CCP is an enemy regime of the Australian people..
.

BS. Xi himself spoke in the Oz parliament less than a decade ago.

What's happened since then is China keeps doubling its wealth every 10 years, so that we now see the paranoid Western sovereign individual ideologues tilting at windmills in a big way.

China woke up fast when their first internationally competitive world-leading technology company Huawei was banned on trumped-up national security grounds, and China indeed felt slighted, and now they are feeling entitled to react to such slights.

Bur your assertion China is "an enemy regime of the Australian people" is sheer ideological evil.  Well done.


I will take it you are a Chinese national posting from China, so your opinions are not your own.

You are required to approve of the harassment and bashing of Australian citizens if they criticise the CCP.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 44996
Gender: male
Re: Western Culture
Reply #164 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 7:36pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 1:19pm:
For those interested in debate (unlike Lisa)

eg 'Western culture'...... when China becomes the largest economy in the world:

https://academic.oup.com/cjip/article/11/1/1/4844055

Chinese Values vs. Liberalism: What Ideology Will Shape the International Normative Order?




Wink Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Really????    Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


Chinese Values vs. Liberalism: What Ideology Will Shape the International Normative Order?
Xuetong Yan
The Chinese Journal of International Politics, Volume 11, Issue 1, Spring 2018, Pages 1–22, https://doi.org/10.1093/cjip/poy001
Published: 08 February 2018





It's the clash of civilisations, after all. Huntington saw it. Islam and the West are clashing already. Islam and China, ditto. Now the West and China. China will lose AGAIN. (Although the West is doing everything to lose politically and economically but it will prevail because, simply, it is humane as China is not).




Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 11 12 13 ... 29
Send Topic Print