Australian Politics Forum - Western Culture

thegreatdivide

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Re: Western Culture
Reply #225 - Feb 24^th, 2022 at 5:46pm

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 11:32am:

You do enjoy talking complete rot, don't you?

That's not debate, you didn't expose my error (being "complete rot"), but I see you have some more to say, so let's read on:

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Guaranteed how? By the UN looking very very cross indeed?

No, by the UNSC ALONE possessing, and authorized to use, 99.9% of the world's military force, since such a UNSC (without veto) will guarantee security for ALL nations.

Now admittedly, "freedom" ideologues have a strong death wish, and little love of life; eg, those settler nutjobs on the WB might need to be eliminated with a well-placed missile delivered by the UNSC if they insist on spurning (after all opportunity to repent) the rulings of an ICJ upholding the principles of the UN UDHR.

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Not even capital punishment can guarantee the end to murders but the UN looking very displeased and tut-tutting sternly will guarantee the end of wars.

More or less correct......a few well-aimed hypersonic missiles, available ONLY to the UNSC, will indeed guarantee the end of war, even "freedom" ideologues no doubt have the capacity for rationality, to save themselves.

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We have an international rules based system already

No we don't: you need a credible force to maintain rule of law.

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but that doesn't stop China from trampling on Hong Kong, monstering Taiwan, running gulags for dissenters, threatening Australia, Canada, Lithuania, the UK, lying and cheating despate promising honesty if admitted to the WTO, etc, etc.

Well, I'll play along with your deluded ideological characterization: and say..... correct(!); and you propose to stop China doing these things...how, exactly?

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« Last Edit: Feb 24^th, 2022 at 6:01pm by thegreatdivide »

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Western Culture
Reply #226 - Feb 24^th, 2022 at 8:39pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 11:34am:

Are you a Chinese national and posting from China?

Are you a wumao?

Are you a Little Pink?

I don't think he/she is. Chinese who've spent most of their lives in China have horrible grammar - they have great difficulty understanding articles, prepositions and auxiliary verbs (thegreatdivide doesn't have these problems). He/she's either some white bloke having some fun or a Chinese who was born in the West and lived their most of his life.

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Online Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12638 Gender:	Re: Western Culture Reply #227 - Feb 24^th, 2022 at 8:51pm Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 8:39pm: .... having some fun.... So you can see the Western 'sovereign individual'/'inherent rights' delusions are worthy of ridicule?
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Western Culture
Reply #228 - Feb 24^th, 2022 at 9:02pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 8:51pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 8:39pm:

.... having some fun....

So you can see the Western 'sovereign individual'/'inherent rights' delusions are worthy of ridicule?

What specifically is worthy of ridicule, individual/inherent rights or the delusion of them?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Western Culture
Reply #229 - Feb 24^th, 2022 at 10:16pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 9:02pm:

What specifically is worthy of ridicule, individual/inherent rights or the delusion of them?

Both. Individual 'inalienable' inherent rights have no basis in reality, therefore delusional; and delusion is a form of mental illness.

.......aka the human condition.

Jeremy Griffiths (WTM) refers to it as the human psychosis, caused by unconscious conflict between instinct and self-aware consciousness.

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« Last Edit: Feb 24^th, 2022 at 10:23pm by thegreatdivide »

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Western Culture
Reply #230 - Feb 24^th, 2022 at 10:39pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 10:16pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 9:02pm:

What specifically is worthy of ridicule, individual/inherent rights or the delusion of them?

Both. Individual 'inalienable' inherent rights have no basis in reality, therefore delusional; and delusion is a form of mental illness.

.......aka the human condition.

Jeremy Griffiths (WTM) refers to it as the human psychosis, caused by unconscious conflict between instinct and self-aware consciousness.

Well, they only don't exist if they not upheld.
This isn't any great insight. Most (good) first year undergraduate political science classes will teach you that rights only exist if there's a power to grant and uphold them.

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Frank

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Re: Western Culture
Reply #231 - Feb 24^th, 2022 at 10:53pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 5:46pm:

No, by the UNSC ALONE possessing, and authorized to use, 99.9% of the world's military force, since such a UNSC (without veto) will guarantee security for ALL nations.

Thank you, stupid, you are out of your mind. By what means would the UN take control of the entire military force of the world? And who would finance, equip and command it??

You are just a low grade moron with a lot of words and one single idiotic idea.

As Billy says, with admirable Western cultural clarity:

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 12167 Gender:	Re: Western Culture Reply #232 - Feb 25^th, 2022 at 6:42am thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 10:16pm: Individual 'inalienable' inherent rights have no basis in reality, therefore delusional; and delusion is a form of mental illness. Finally, non-communist political ideals branded mental illness. Very Stalinist. When the Maoist mask slips, the Stalinist face is revealed.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Western Culture
Reply #233 - Feb 25^th, 2022 at 9:40am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 10:39pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 10:16pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 9:02pm:

What specifically is worthy of ridicule, individual/inherent rights or the delusion of them?

Both. Individual 'inalienable' inherent rights have no basis in reality, therefore delusional; and delusion is a form of mental illness.

.......aka the human condition.

Jeremy Griffiths (WTM) refers to it as the human psychosis, caused by unconscious conflict between instinct and self-aware consciousness.

Well, they only don't exist if they not upheld.

Delusions cannot be upheld forever, being based on unreality.

Quote:

This isn't any great insight. Most (good) first year undergraduate political science classes will teach you that rights only exist if there's a power to grant and uphold them.

And the power which understands that 'rights' are human conventions will succeed over the power that is based on delusions of 'inherent rights'.

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Frank

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Re: Western Culture
Reply #234 - Feb 25^th, 2022 at 1:32pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 8:51pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 8:39pm:

.... having some fun....

So you can see the Western 'sovereign individual'/'inherent rights' delusions are worthy of ridicule?

If the individual must not be allowed to choose who represents him politically, what else must he not be allowed to choose?
What he eats, reads, who he talks to, what he says or thinks, who he loves or agrees with? What powers of individual decision and autonomy is to be left to him?
Who decides?

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« Last Edit: Feb 25^th, 2022 at 2:01pm by Frank »

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Western Culture
Reply #235 - Feb 25^th, 2022 at 4:26pm

Frank wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 1:32pm:

If the individual must not be allowed to choose who represents him politically, what else must he not be allowed to choose?

Er...murder, theft, neoliberalism...

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What he eats, reads, who he talks to, what he says or thinks, who he loves or agrees with?

No, provided he abides by the Constitution.

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What powers of individual decision and autonomy is to be left to him?

Almost infinite.

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Who decides?

He does, with the necessary limitation noted above, to avoid anarchy.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Western Culture
Reply #236 - Feb 25^th, 2022 at 4:41pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 6:42am:

Finally, non-communist political ideals branded mental illness.

Very Stalinist.

When the Maoist mask slips, the Stalinist face is revealed.

No; the delusion of inherent natural rights are branded as mental illness (which they are, until someone can explain otherwise; PM III failed with his theory that power to enforce rights is the source of rights).

Non-communist political ideals are not necessarily delusional (exhibiting mental illness). eg the desire (as opposed to the "right") for life, freedom, and the desire to pursue happiness.

Edit: these desires are non-ideological ie, can be equally communist and non-communist.

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« Last Edit: Feb 25^th, 2022 at 4:58pm by thegreatdivide »

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Western Culture
Reply #237 - Feb 25^th, 2022 at 4:48pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 4:41pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 6:42am:

Finally, non-communist political ideals branded mental illness.

Very Stalinist.

When the Maoist mask slips, the Stalinist face is revealed.

No; the delusion of inherent natural rights are branded as mental illness (which they are, until someone can explain otherwise; PM III failed with his theory that power to enforce rights is the source of rights).

Non-communist political ideals are not necessarily delusional (exhibiting mental illness). eg the desire (as opposed to the "right") for life, freedom, and the desire to pursue happiness.

Maybe you could think about that as you're doing what you must to pay off your access to a VPN.

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Online Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12638 Gender:	Re: Western Culture Reply #238 - Feb 25^th, 2022 at 4:59pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 4:48pm: Maybe you could think about that as you're doing what you must to pay off your access to a VPN. Irrelevant - see my edit to #236.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Western Culture
Reply #239 - Feb 25^th, 2022 at 5:03pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 4:59pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 4:48pm:

Maybe you could think about that as you're doing what you must to pay off your access to a VPN.

Irrelevant - see my edit to #236.

Not irrelevant when you're going through it.

I'd bet it would be nice to think that something as small as access to VPN should not cost so much in personal dignity.

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