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Western Culture (Read 39835 times)
MeisterEckhart
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #315 - Mar 5th, 2022 at 2:23pm  
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 5th, 2022 at 1:15pm:
Like I said -  4 decades ago: the CCP is continuously changing and adapting, whereas the democracies (really plutocracies) are ossifying. 

And whereas when the US National Guard murdered 6 students during the Vietnam War protests, they were enforcing the government's foreign policy, but in Jan 6th 2021 they were required to defend the Capitol against internal domestic hyper-partisanship ...while the CCP enjoys >90% support at home.

Quote:
Rape, torture, murder and corruption is par for the course for the Chinese regarding their leaders.


"Among the eight questions that NPC spokesperson Zhang took at the press conference, two were about the whole-process people's democracy in China" (as opposed to the grid-locked 'veto-cracy' in the US).

"Zhang said it is a key concept that the leadership of the Communist Party of China with Xi Jinping at its core has developed and is underpinned by a well-established set of institutional procedures, as well as full participation and practice".

"Zhu Lijia, a professor of public management at the Chinese Academy of Governance, told the Global Times on Friday that "the most important characteristic of socialist democracy is the democracy of participation and of consultation. People take part in formulating, consulting and supervising this process, which has much significance."

"There are no identical democratic systems in the world, nor is there a one-size-fits-all mode of democracy. When it comes to democracy, there is always room for improvement," Zhang said. "On the basis of mutual respect, we are willing to engage exchanges and mutual learning with other countries to continuously enrich and better the fruits of human political civilization," he said.

And are you willing to learn? (silly question, I know...).

The CCP cannot claim rule by popularity because it has never tested it with a general election.

Cultural history is forever. 4 decades ago in cultural history is yesterday.

The CCP are adept at protecting CCP officials' crimes and has eliminated all possibility of legal due process and justice by banning all dissent within China.

Rape, torture, murder and corruption is all the Chinese have come to expect as constants from their leaders no matter what they wear.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #316 - Mar 5th, 2022 at 5:16pm  
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 5th, 2022 at 2:23pm:
The CCP cannot claim rule by popularity because it has never tested it with a general election.


Ever heard of polls..... which show that  youth in the democracies no longer believe democracy is the best system; not surprising because the current evil neoliberal system  is offering them mickey-mouse, insecure gig-economy  jobs.

Quote:
Cultural history is forever. 4 decades ago in cultural history is yesterday.


A very weak statement. 4 centuries ago the Brits were hanging, drawing and quartering dissenters in public (now there's a "culture" for you...; today they just accept entrenched poverty level welfare as a cop-out for a dysfunctional economic orthodoxy.

Quote:
The CCP are adept at protecting CCP officials' crimes and has eliminated all possibility of legal due process and justice by banning all dissent within China.


Nonsense,  the CCP restricts delusional "freedom" ideology which would prevent implementation of 5 year plans and the steady progress toward a prosperous socialist society.   

Quote:
Rape, torture, murder and corruption is all the Chinese have come to expect as constants from their leaders no matter what they wear.


More nonsense. Those crimes are illegal  in China.

Meanwhile the government is on full display:


"  China on Friday began its annual two sessions, where national legislators and political advisors will discuss and decide on important matters of national concern, and amid sporadic domestic COVID-19 resurgence and major changes internationally this year, the legislative events, which have a broad domestic participation, will showcase the success of China's whole-process people's democracy, observers said.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #317 - Mar 5th, 2022 at 7:06pm  
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 5th, 2022 at 5:16pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 5th, 2022 at 2:23pm:
The CCP cannot claim rule by popularity because it has never tested it with a general election.


Ever heard of polls..... which show that  youth in the democracies no longer believe democracy is the best system; not surprising because the current evil neoliberal system  is offering them mickey-mouse, insecure gig-economy  jobs.

Quote:
Cultural history is forever. 4 decades ago in cultural history is yesterday.


A very weak statement. 4 centuries ago the Brits were hanging, drawing and quartering dissenters in public (now there's a "culture" for you...; today they just accept entrenched poverty level welfare as a cop-out for a dysfunctional economic orthodoxy.

Quote:
The CCP are adept at protecting CCP officials' crimes and has eliminated all possibility of legal due process and justice by banning all dissent within China.


Nonsense,  the CCP restricts delusional "freedom" ideology which would prevent implementation of 5 year plans and the steady progress toward a prosperous socialist society.   

Quote:
Rape, torture, murder and corruption is all the Chinese have come to expect as constants from their leaders no matter what they wear.


More nonsense. Those crimes are illegal  in China.

Meanwhile the government is on full display:


"  China on Friday began its annual two sessions, where national legislators and political advisors will discuss and decide on important matters of national concern, and amid sporadic domestic COVID-19 resurgence and major changes internationally this year, the legislative events, which have a broad domestic participation, will showcase the success of China's whole-process people's democracy, observers said.

Illegal is not a term used for CCP officials being protected.

History is nothing eh? So we won't be subjected to the frog-faced Victor Gao bitching about historical humiliation then?

How about the Chinese fixation with killing Japanese?

The CCP imposes poverty particularly on the rural Chinese and migrant workers. All totalitarians keep their people impoverished. If you're worried about how you'll eat tomorrow, you're not going to be demonstrating against the government. All Chinese rulers used this tactic on the Chinese people.

Rape, torture, murder and corruption is how the CCP (as with the emperors before them) maintain the peoples' fear of them.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #318 - Mar 6th, 2022 at 10:59am  
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 5th, 2022 at 7:06pm:
Illegal is not a term used for CCP officials being protected.


Illegal is illegal anywhere; individuals  behave badly anywhere, you are incapable of looking in the mirror.

Quote:
History is nothing eh? So we won't be subjected to the frog-faced Victor Gao bitching about historical humiliation then?


History is real, and we can reject you bitching about Tiananmen Square, when the Capital riots and entrenched poverty in the US are even more recent. 

Quote:
How about the Chinese fixation with killing Japanese?


The Chinese are not fixated on killing Japanese; though like all nations  they remember their dead at the hands of other nations.

Quote:
The CCP imposes poverty particularly on the rural Chinese and migrant workers. All totalitarians keep their people impoverished. If you're worried about how you'll eat tomorrow, you're not going to be demonstrating against the government. All Chinese rulers used this tactic on the Chinese people.


The above paragraph shows the sheer hypocrisy of your blind "freedom" ideology. Poverty is generational, evasive and chronic in the evil neoliberal Western monetarist economic orthodoxy.

Quote:
Rape, torture, murder and corruption is how the CCP (as with the emperors before them) maintain the peoples' fear of them.


Now your blind, delusional "freedom" ideology has literally made you insane, as if any government seeks to maintains its legitimacy by illegal acts.  Force against deluded "freedom" ideologues, maybe, illegal acts no. 

Meanwhile your delusional "freedom" ideology is responsible for the fact war is still legal ...even after the catastrophe of WW2 which was finally brought to an end via that mushroom cloud over Hiroshima.

Your delusional "freedom" ideology insists on national sovereignty...in effect, insists of the "freedom" to die for "freedom". Sheer insanity, in the age of MAD no less, which we are again witnessing.  NATO of course is happy so long as others are dying for "freedom" in Ukraine.  


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« Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2022 at 11:05am by thegreatdivide »  
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #319 - Mar 6th, 2022 at 12:15pm  
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 6th, 2022 at 10:59am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 5th, 2022 at 7:06pm:
Illegal is not a term used for CCP officials being protected.


Illegal is illegal anywhere; individuals  behave badly anywhere, you are incapable of looking in the mirror.

Quote:
History is nothing eh? So we won't be subjected to the frog-faced Victor Gao bitching about historical humiliation then?


History is real, and we can reject you bitching about Tiananmen Square, when the Capital riots and entrenched poverty in the US are even more recent. 

Quote:
How about the Chinese fixation with killing Japanese?


The Chinese are not fixated on killing Japanese; though like all nations  they remember their dead at the hands of other nations.

Quote:
The CCP imposes poverty particularly on the rural Chinese and migrant workers. All totalitarians keep their people impoverished. If you're worried about how you'll eat tomorrow, you're not going to be demonstrating against the government. All Chinese rulers used this tactic on the Chinese people.


The above paragraph shows the sheer hypocrisy of your blind "freedom" ideology. Poverty is generational, evasive and chronic in the evil neoliberal Western monetarist economic orthodoxy.

Quote:
Rape, torture, murder and corruption is how the CCP (as with the emperors before them) maintain the peoples' fear of them.


Now your blind, delusional "freedom" ideology has literally made you insane, as if any government seeks to maintains its legitimacy by illegal acts.  Force against deluded "freedom" ideologues, maybe, illegal acts no. 

Meanwhile your delusional "freedom" ideology is responsible for the fact war is still legal ...even after the catastrophe of WW2 which was finally brought to an end via that mushroom cloud over Hiroshima.

Your delusional "freedom" ideology insists on national sovereignty...in effect, insists of the "freedom" to die for "freedom". Sheer insanity, in the age of MAD no less, which we are again witnessing.  NATO of course is happy so long as others are dying for "freedom" in Ukraine.  



Illegal is not a term used for CCP officials being protected - Just ask Peng Shuai and the likely thousands of those who have disappeared after complaining about corruption or criminal behaviour of CCP officials.

History... Like the CCP's 'years of humiliation' endless rant.

The CCP is above the law so nothing any official does in its name is illegal including corruption, murder, or rape, or abuse of any kind.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #320 - Mar 6th, 2022 at 3:11pm  
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 6th, 2022 at 12:15pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 6th, 2022 at 10:59am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 5th, 2022 at 7:06pm:
Illegal is not a term used for CCP officials being protected.


Illegal is illegal anywhere; individuals  behave badly anywhere, you are incapable of looking in the mirror.

Quote:
History is nothing eh? So we won't be subjected to the frog-faced Victor Gao bitching about historical humiliation then?


History is real, and we can reject you bitching about Tiananmen Square, when the Capital riots and entrenched poverty in the US are even more recent. 

Quote:
How about the Chinese fixation with killing Japanese?


The Chinese are not fixated on killing Japanese; though like all nations  they remember their dead at the hands of other nations.

Quote:
The CCP imposes poverty particularly on the rural Chinese and migrant workers. All totalitarians keep their people impoverished. If you're worried about how you'll eat tomorrow, you're not going to be demonstrating against the government. All Chinese rulers used this tactic on the Chinese people.


The above paragraph shows the sheer hypocrisy of your blind "freedom" ideology. Poverty is generational, evasive and chronic in the evil neoliberal Western monetarist economic orthodoxy.

Quote:
Rape, torture, murder and corruption is how the CCP (as with the emperors before them) maintain the peoples' fear of them.


Now your blind, delusional "freedom" ideology has literally made you insane, as if any government seeks to maintains its legitimacy by illegal acts.  Force against deluded "freedom" ideologues, maybe, illegal acts no. 

Meanwhile your delusional "freedom" ideology is responsible for the fact war is still legal ...even after the catastrophe of WW2 which was finally brought to an end via that mushroom cloud over Hiroshima.

Your delusional "freedom" ideology insists on national sovereignty...in effect, insists of the "freedom" to die for "freedom". Sheer insanity, in the age of MAD no less, which we are again witnessing.  NATO of course is happy so long as others are dying for "freedom" in Ukraine.  



Illegal is not a term used for CCP officials being protected - Just ask Peng Shuai and the likely thousands of those who have disappeared after complaining about corruption or criminal behaviour of CCP officials.


No, illegal is illegal.  Individuals everywhere  break the law all the time of course, which is why anti-corruption bodies are vital.

Quote:
History... Like the CCP's 'years of humiliation' endless rant.


No; the endless slaughterhouse of history (since recorded times) , and its continuation now - for which deluded "sovereign individual" ideologues like you are responsible - is the issue facing us today.   

Quote:
The CCP is above the law
 

Nonsense,  only individuals can flout the law, otherwise the law doesn't exist (aka anarchy).   

Quote:
so nothing any official does in its name is illegal including corruption, murder, or rape, or abuse of any kind.


Addressed and disproved above.  The CCP, like any political party, is committed to the Constitution.

You can continue to spout your 'sovereign individual/ sovereign nation' garbage as long as you like, it won't help you to appear to be rational.

Now go back to the telly, to watch people dying for "freedom", in the continuing slaughterhouse of history. 





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« Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2022 at 3:19pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #321 - Mar 6th, 2022 at 5:24pm  
Illegal is illegal when the CCP says it’s illegal. That how CCP officials can rape torture murder and disappear people at will.

The CCP is above all law and all officials acting in its name are immune from prosecution.

These are the core reasons Taiwan wants nothing to do with the CCP
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Ayn Marx
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #322 - Mar 6th, 2022 at 7:13pm  
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 6th, 2022 at 5:24pm:
Illegal is illegal when the CCP says it’s illegal. That how CCP officials can rape torture murder and disappear people at will.

The CCP is above all law and all officials acting in its name are immune from prosecution.

These are the core reasons Taiwan wants nothing to do with the CCP


True, but have you considered these nasty political hyprocracies aren’t unique to the CCP?
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #323 - Mar 7th, 2022 at 7:43am  
Ayn Marx wrote on Mar 6th, 2022 at 7:13pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 6th, 2022 at 5:24pm:
Illegal is illegal when the CCP says it’s illegal. That how CCP officials can rape torture murder and disappear people at will.

The CCP is above all law and all officials acting in its name are immune from prosecution.

These are the core reasons Taiwan wants nothing to do with the CCP


True, but have you considered these nasty political hyprocracies aren’t unique to the CCP?

Power is corruptive.

All governments, unchecked, tend towards corruption.

All people wielding power tend towards corruption.

Its most common manifestations are nepotism, theft, brutality, rape, murder, and incarceration without open and due process.

There is no cure or vaccine for it.

The only preventative, or check on it, is:

- a properly constituted system of government that submits to the rule of law (as opposed to no rule of law, or the CCP's rule by law),

- a judiciary that is independent of a government's executive and allows justice to be seen to be done

- a free and independent media capable of reporting corruption of government apparatchiks to the people and to the courts.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #324 - Mar 7th, 2022 at 12:13pm  
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 6th, 2022 at 5:24pm:
Illegal is illegal when the CCP says it’s illegal.


Wrong, illegal is illegal when ANY national constitution says its illegal. 

Quote:
That how CCP officials can rape torture murder and disappear people at will.


Ideological clap-trap.

Quote:
The CCP is above all law and all officials acting in its name are immune from prosecution.
 

More nonsense  from a deluded blind ideologue.

Quote:
These are the core reasons Taiwan wants nothing to do with the CCP


The desire to maximize private wealth for individuals motivates anti-mainland Chinese in Taiwan, same as "freedom" ideologues everywhere.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #325 - Mar 7th, 2022 at 12:38pm  
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7th, 2022 at 7:43am:
Power is corruptive.


...and individual self-interest is corrosive, and antipathetic to collective wellbeing.

Quote:
All governments, unchecked, tend towards corruption.


Corruption is a reality among individuals, but government can endevour to implement collective well-being.   

Quote:
All people wielding power tend towards corruption.
 

Hence the need for transparent government-ordained  anti-corruption processes.

Quote:
Its most common manifestations are nepotism, theft, brutality, rape, murder, and incarceration without open and due process.


You left out stealing public funds and personal enrichment.

Quote:
There is no cure or vaccine for it.


Yet a well-functioning economy enabling  prosperity for all reduces the temptations toward corruption among officials.

Quote:
The only preventative, or check on it, is:

- a properly constituted system of government that submits to the rule of law (as opposed to no rule of law, or the CCP's rule by law),


It's ideological claptrap to distinguish between  "the rule of law" and "the CCP's rule by law". Rule of law is equally achieved by consent or consensus.

Quote:
- a judiciary that is independent of a government's executive and allows justice to be seen to be done


If the government's executive is implementing the common prosperity of the people, then an independent judiciary is moot.

Quote:
- a free and independent media capable of reporting corruption of government apparatchiks to the people and to the courts.


Yet a press beholden to delusional individual freedom is responsible for maintaining dysfunctional economies and entrenched poverty. 


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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #326 - Mar 7th, 2022 at 1:05pm  
It's understandable from an objective point of view why the CCP is as corrupt and murderous as it is.

Mao, 'the great helmsman' himself set the tone as a murderer, rapist and was corrupt.

He set the tone for the sewer the CCP's government was always destined to become.

Which is why their aiding and abetting Putin over his invasion of Ukraine comes naturally to them.
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« Last Edit: Mar 7th, 2022 at 1:21pm by MeisterEckhart »  
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #327 - Mar 7th, 2022 at 1:27pm  
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7th, 2022 at 1:05pm:
It's understandable from an objective point of view why the CCP is as corrupt and murderous as it is.


It's understandable why you are as delusional, ideological and deceptive as you are,  in a word -
uncomprehending self-interest

Quote:
Mao, 'the great helmsman' himself set the tone as a murderer, rapist and was corrupt.


The West's classical economics foundation is based on obsolete theories of unlimited desires in the face of limited resources. 

Quote:
He set the tone for the sewer the CCP's government was always destined to become.


Western classical economics is responsible for  endless wars and entrenched global poverty

Quote:
Which is why their aiding and abetting Putin are his invasion of Ukraine comes naturally to them.


Both China and Russia are fighting Western exceptionalism and economic triumphalism.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #328 - Mar 7th, 2022 at 1:31pm  
The most ideal outcome for the Chinese people would be the containment and suffocating of the CCP.

The main problem would the same as Russia faces.

The removal of Putin could trigger the rise of the oligarchs as a ruling tyrannical elite.

In the event of the collapse of the CCP, those officials that currently run the CCP would themselves become an oligarchical ruling elite.

The Chinese people seem condemned to be murdered, raped, starved and stolen from as they have been for many centuries.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #329 - Mar 8th, 2022 at 1:01pm  
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7th, 2022 at 1:31pm:
The most ideal outcome for the Chinese people would be the containment and suffocating of the CCP.

The main problem would the same as Russia faces.

The removal of Putin could trigger the rise of the oligarchs as a ruling tyrannical elite.

In the event of the collapse of the CCP, those officials that currently run the CCP would themselves become an oligarchical ruling elite.

The Chinese people seem condemned to be murdered, raped, starved and stolen from as they have been for many centuries.


Is this a reply to #327, or  are you just talking to yourself?

Quote:
The most ideal outcome for the Chinese people would be the containment and suffocating of the CCP.


The most ideal outcome for Oz would be the adoption of MMT and the Job Guarantee. 

Quote:
The main problem would the same as Russia faces.

The removal of Putin could trigger the rise of the oligarchs as a ruling tyrannical elite.

In the event of the collapse of the CCP, those officials that currently run the CCP would themselves become an oligarchical ruling elite.


Certainly the Western economic advisers who were sent to Russia in 1990, to oversee the transition to democracy caused an economic collapse resulting in a loss of 5 years' life expectancy in Russia.

Quote:
The Chinese people seem condemned to be murdered, raped, starved and stolen from as they have been for many centuries.


The pragmatism of the CCP will ensure the fastest rate of increase in living standards of any large nation in history, will continue apace.

Whereas your concerns should be directed to those dying for "freedom"  in Ukraine, courtesy of your insane legal war/national sovereignty argument resulting in our lawless world. 

Not to mention the generational , entrenched, evasive poverty in the West.




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