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Western Culture (Read 39838 times)
Jasin
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #330 - Mar 8th, 2022 at 5:33pm
 
The Western Celtic Europeans: The End of the European World to them and a good excuse to flee to North America.
The Western Namericans: The End of the USA World and a good excuse to flee to Mars.  Grin

The West/North America = the End of the World philosophy.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #331 - Mar 21st, 2022 at 8:08am
 
I had heard that Strauss was popular there, as was, to my surprise, Carl Schmitt, the Weimar anti-liberal (and anti-Semitic) legal theorist. The New Yorker had even run a piece that spoke of “the new generation’s neocon nationalists,” mentioning the interest in Strauss as some sort of disturbing development. What I discovered, especially among the many young people I spoke with, was something much more interesting and important. Strauss and Schmitt are at the center of intellectual debate [in China] but they are being read by everyone, whatever their partisan leanings; as a liberal journalist in Shanghai told me as we took a stroll one day, “no one will take you seriously if you have nothing to say about these two men and their ideas.” And the interest has little to do with nationalism in the nineteenth-century sense of the term. It is a response to crisis—a widely shared belief that the millennia-long continuity of Chinese history has been broken and that everything, politically and intellectually, is now up for grabs.
....
Schmitt was by far the most intellectually challenging anti-liberal statist of the twentieth century. His deepest objections to liberalism were anthropological. Classical liberalism assumes the autonomy of self-sufficient individuals and treats conflict as a function of faulty social and institutional arrangements; rearrange those arrangements, and peace, prosperity, learning, and refinement will follow. Schmitt assumed the priority of conflict: Man is a political creature, in the sense that his most defining characteristic is the ability to distinguish friend and adversary. Classical liberalism sees society as having multiple, semi-autonomous spheres; Schmitt asserted the priority of the social whole (his ideal was the medieval Catholic Church) and considered the autonomy of the economy, say, or culture or religion, as a dangerous fiction. (“The political is the total, and as a result we know that any decision about whether something is unpolitical is always a political decision.”) Classical liberalism treats sovereignty as a kind of coin that individuals are given by nature and which they cash in as they build legitimate political institutions for themselves; Schmitt saw sovereignty as the result of an arbitrary self-founding act by a leader, a party, a class, or a nation that simply declares “thus it shall be.” Classical liberalism had little to say about war and international affairs, leaving the impression that, if only human rights were respected and markets kept free, a morally universal and pacified world order would result. For Schmitt, this was liberalism’s greatest and most revealing intellectual abdication: If you have nothing to say about war, you have nothing to say about politics. There is, he wrote, “absolutely no liberal politics, only a liberal critique of politics.”
https://newrepublic.com/article/79747/reading-leo-strauss-in-beijing-china-marx

Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping share more than being “best, most intimate” friends, as Xi has boasted, and more than sheer authoritarian, brute-force common cause.

They also, to a degree, think alike, for their world views and those of their coteries are driven significantly by the same, resurgent thinker – the German political philosopher Carl Schmitt, who was the “Crown Jurist” of Adolf Hitler’s National Socialist Party, which he joined and helped guide. Schmitt, who was born in Prussia in 1888 and died in 1985, elevated the primacy of the state to a theological level and detested representative democracy, liberalism and the rule of law. He would have applauded the invasion of Ukraine, and supported the seizure by Beijing of Taiwan.

One of the most influential Russian figures to have urged Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is Aleksandr Dugin, a leading member of Putin’s United Russia Party and author of Foundations of Geopolitics, which has become an official text book of the Russian military’s General Staff Academy, on Putin’s insistence. Schmitt has deeply influenced Dugin, who has written a much-cited essay on Carl Schmitt’s Five Lessons for Russia.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/how-resurgent-nazi-schmitt-shapes-russ...


No wonder thegreatcleavage sounds like a shrill nazi.... tsk, tsk  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #332 - Mar 21st, 2022 at 12:54pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 8:08am:


.....as a liberal journalist in Shanghai told me as we took a stroll one day, “no one will take you seriously if you have nothing to say about these two men and their ideas.” And the interest has little to do with nationalism in the nineteenth-century sense of the term. It is a response to crisis—a widely shared belief that the millennia-long continuity of Chinese history has been broken and that everything, politically and intellectually, is now up for grabs.


Yes well China is certainly at the forefront  of a movement toward a new world order, and as such is subject to vigorous exploration of new ideas re national political and economic systems.

However statements such as "the millennia-long continuity of Chinese history" which allegedly " has been broken" (by the establishment  of 'communist' rule) can not be allowed to stand without scrutiny. 

eg, China was conquered by a very different Mongolian culture in the 13th century (just as Anglo Britain was conquered by a Norse culture in 1066).

Anyway, let's read on:    

Quote:
Schmitt was by far the most intellectually challenging anti-liberal statist of the twentieth century. His deepest objections to liberalism were anthropological. Classical liberalism assumes the autonomy of self-sufficient individuals and treats conflict as a function of faulty social and institutional arrangements; rearrange those arrangements, and peace, prosperity, learning, and refinement will follow. Schmitt assumed the priority of conflict: Man is a political creature, in the sense that his most defining characteristic is the ability to distinguish friend and adversary. Classical liberalism sees society as having multiple, semi-autonomous spheres; Schmitt asserted the priority of the social whole (his ideal was the medieval Catholic Church) and considered the autonomy of the economy, say, or culture or religion, as a dangerous fiction.


Yet if you replace the "medieval Catholic Church" with international law upholding the UN UDHR,  you can recreate Schmitt's  "social whole", in the 21st century.

Quote:
(“The political is the total, and as a result we know that any decision about whether something is unpolitical is always a political decision.”)


But the establishment of the Universal Catholic Church was a political decision made by Constantine....so....?

Quote:
Classical liberalism treats sovereignty as a kind of coin that individuals are given by nature and which they cash in as they build legitimate political institutions for themselves;



Certainly classical liberalism proposed absurd notions of "inherent natural rights"

Quote:
Schmitt saw sovereignty as the result of an arbitrary self-founding act by a leader, a party, a class, or a nation that simply declares “thus it shall be.”
 

That's all 'sovereignty' ever can be, a decision by men in search of good governance, (however defined).

Quote:
Classical liberalism had little to say about war and international affairs, leaving the impression that, if only human rights were respected and markets kept free, a morally universal and pacified world order would result. For Schmitt, this was liberalism’s greatest and most revealing intellectual abdication: If you have nothing to say about war, you have nothing to say about politics. There is, he wrote, “absolutely no liberal politics, only a liberal critique of politics.”
https://newrepublic.com/article/79747/reading-leo-strauss-in-beijing-china-marx


Absolutely agree. If you have nothing to say about war and the need for international law, you are promoting chaos and  the law of the jungle. 

Now let's see what the commentators below make of all this:

Quote:
Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping share more than being “best, most intimate” friends, as Xi has boasted, and more than sheer authoritarian, brute-force common cause.


Now you have lost the plot; Xi hopes to gain re-election at the upcoming Party meeting later this year, on the BASIS OF HIS PERFORMANCE OUTCOMES (including progress toward "common prosperity")..... but let's read on: 

Quote:
They also, to a degree, think alike, for their world views and those of their coteries are driven significantly by the same, resurgent thinker – the German political philosopher Carl Schmitt, who was the “Crown Jurist” of Adolf Hitler’s National Socialist Party, which he joined and helped guide. Schmitt, who was born in Prussia in 1888 and died in 1985, elevated the primacy of the state to a theological level and detested representative democracy, liberalism and the rule of law. He would have applauded the invasion of Ukraine, and supported the seizure by Beijing of Taiwan.


Well then Schmitt failed to see the possibility of the expansion of  the faith-based "universal medieval Church"  to outcomes-based international law, in the 21st century.

As for specific leaders,  Putin has been characterized as another Czar wanting to re-establish the Holy Orthodox faith over the Russian speaking peoples (west Ukraine is Catholic).   Xi has no such cultural/religious aspirations; his goal is universal prosperity for the nation, regardless of ethnicity and culture. 

(Cont).   

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Re: Western Culture
Reply #333 - Mar 21st, 2022 at 1:26pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 8:08am:
  (Cont)
They also, to a degree, think alike, for their world views and those of their coteries are driven significantly by the same, resurgent thinker – the German political philosopher Carl Schmitt, who was the “Crown Jurist” of Adolf Hitler’s National Socialist Party, which he joined and helped guide.


Ok, Schmitt saw the inadequacies and delusions  of classical liberalism, but that does not mean all four men (Schmitt, Hitler, Putin and Xi) are singing from the same song book (nice try, though...)

Quote:
(Schmitt) who was born in Prussia in 1888 and died in 1985, elevated the primacy of the state to a theological level and detested representative democracy, liberalism and the rule of law.


1. "elevated the primacy of the state to a theological level".....to achieve well-ordered communities: Check

2. "detested representative democracy".... have you ever had the misfortune to experience parliamentary "question time" run by adversarial, blind-leading-the- blind rabbles aka political parties? Check.

3. "Detested liberalism"...when it's a cover for the law of the jungle: Check.

4. Detested rule of law....ditto, when it's a cover for the law of the jungle. Liberals don't want international rule of law, because it offends their delusional "freedom"/'individual  sovereignty' ideology.

Hence the chaotic present state of law of the jungle, in human affairs. We ought not still be fighting wars, in the age of MAD.  

Quote:
He would have applauded the invasion of Ukraine,


No he would not. His (anachronistic) ideal of the 'universal Church' would have him abhorring the invasion.

Quote:
and supported the seizure by Beijing of Taiwan
.

Yes well liberals outside China want to support a renegade state of China which shares  their own ideology.

[I think/hope  the CCP is too smart to go to war; there's no reason why  China cannot win back the island in a decade by sheer dint of the economic success of the mainland. 

Quote:
One of the most influential Russian figures to have urged Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is Aleksandr Dugin, a leading member of Putin’s United Russia Party and author of Foundations of Geopolitics, which has become an official text book of the Russian military’s General Staff Academy, on Putin’s insistence. Schmitt has deeply influenced Dugin, who has written a much-cited essay on Carl Schmitt’s Five Lessons for Russia.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/how-resurgent-nazi-schmitt-shapes-russ...


"Influence" is not identity.

Quote:
No wonder thegreatcleavage sounds like a shrill nazi.... tsk, tsk  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Nice try to identify me with Nazism....but no cigar!
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« Last Edit: Mar 21st, 2022 at 1:42pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #334 - Mar 21st, 2022 at 3:00pm
 
Schmitt opposed what he viewed as liberal values including the separation of powers, and asserted that democracy should only be viewed as truly legitimate when it worked through acclamation, through group voices being raised at, for instance, public rallies, and not through ballot box elections.

He viewed liberalism and his version of democracy as incompatible, and disdained cosmopolitanism. The state, for Schmitt, was sovereign in his political theory in a similar way to God being sovereign in theology. Whoever held sovereign power and who identified a danger to their state’s existence, he wrote, could declare a “state of exception” exempting them from restraint by rule of law.

Politics including party ideology, he asserted, must be privileged over all other areas of life including the economy, and must identify groups of people as either friends or enemies, proclaiming approvingly as the Nazis took power that “the idea of ethnic identity will pervade and dominate all our public law” to ensure “cultural security”.

And his international theory, echoed by others, was dominated by his view of Eurasia as the central fulcrum of world power, a concept that fits naturally with Russian thinking but also increasingly attractive in China, taking in concepts like the Silk Road, and the role of the Mongolian Empire as an Asian archetype for global power, of which Beijing covets its own version including through its Belt and Road Initiative.
...
nationalism and external enemies rather than class struggle – which is no longer available since party members themselves have become palpably China’s privileged elite.

Schmitt envisaged an anti-Western, anti-liberal world order of “great spaces”, spheres of influence, controlled by great powers.

Thus Schmitt Thought is playing a crucial role in helping the authoritarian instincts of the Russian and Chinese regimes cohere conceptually, and also anchoring their crucial mutual connection.

China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi underlined this in stressing 10 days after Putin launched the Ukraine invasion: “The China-Russia relationship is grounded in a clear logic of history and driven by strong internal dynamics.” Their connection is “rock solid,” Wang said. Schmitt-solid.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/how-resurgent-nazi-schmitt-shapes-russ...
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #335 - Mar 21st, 2022 at 3:45pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 3:00pm:
Schmitt opposed what he viewed as liberal values including the separation of powers, and asserted that democracy should only be viewed as truly legitimate when it worked through acclamation, through group voices being raised at, for instance, public rallies, and not through ballot box elections.

He viewed liberalism and his version of democracy as incompatible, and disdained cosmopolitanism. The state, for Schmitt, was sovereign in his political theory in a similar way to God being sovereign in theology. Whoever held sovereign power and who identified a danger to their state’s existence, he wrote, could declare a “state of exception” exempting them from restraint by rule of law.

Politics including party ideology, he asserted, must be privileged over all other areas of life including the economy, and must identify groups of people as either friends or enemies, proclaiming approvingly as the Nazis took power that “the idea of ethnic identity will pervade and dominate all our public law” to ensure “cultural security”.

And his international theory, echoed by others, was dominated by his view of Eurasia as the central fulcrum of world power, a concept that fits naturally with Russian thinking but also increasingly attractive in China, taking in concepts like the Silk Road, and the role of the Mongolian Empire as an Asian archetype for global power, of which Beijing covets its own version including through its Belt and Road Initiative.
...
nationalism and external enemies rather than class struggle – which is no longer available since party members themselves have become palpably China’s privileged elite.

Schmitt envisaged an anti-Western, anti-liberal world order of “great spaces”, spheres of influence, controlled by great powers.

Thus Schmitt Thought is playing a crucial role in helping the authoritarian instincts of the Russian and Chinese regimes cohere conceptually, and also anchoring their crucial mutual connection.

China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi underlined this in stressing 10 days after Putin launched the Ukraine invasion: “The China-Russia relationship is grounded in a clear logic of history and driven by strong internal dynamics.” Their connection is “rock solid,” Wang said. Schmitt-solid.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/how-resurgent-nazi-schmitt-shapes-russ...
 

Thanks for these articles.

Though flawed in some of the political ideology presented, they offer the possible foundations of an antidote to the present insanity of endless 'liberal' enabled wars - via the law of the jungle,  in opposition to a true international rules based system which, by definition in the age of MAD, would outlaw war.

So we are helplessly watching NATO, who cannot directly threaten a nuclear power -  send conventional arms to Ukraine, which might soon be useless if the Russians can capture them.

Results so far; 6 million internally displace people in Ukraine: 3 million refugees to Europe and elsewhere, $trillions in property damage, and skyrocketing fuel prices globally. 

Such is the chaos of the law of the jungle-based,  liberal doctrine of "legal" war.
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« Last Edit: Mar 21st, 2022 at 3:52pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #336 - Mar 21st, 2022 at 3:50pm
 
Koithegreatdivide wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 3:45pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 3:00pm:
Schmitt opposed what he viewed as liberal values including the separation of powers, and asserted that democracy should only be viewed as truly legitimate when it worked through acclamation, through group voices being raised at, for instance, public rallies, and not through ballot box elections.

He viewed liberalism and his version of democracy as incompatible, and disdained cosmopolitanism. The state, for Schmitt, was sovereign in his political theory in a similar way to God being sovereign in theology. Whoever held sovereign power and who identified a danger to their state’s existence, he wrote, could declare a “state of exception” exempting them from restraint by rule of law.

Politics including party ideology, he asserted, must be privileged over all other areas of life including the economy, and must identify groups of people as either friends or enemies, proclaiming approvingly as the Nazis took power that “the idea of ethnic identity will pervade and dominate all our public law” to ensure “cultural security”.

And his international theory, echoed by others, was dominated by his view of Eurasia as the central fulcrum of world power, a concept that fits naturally with Russian thinking but also increasingly attractive in China, taking in concepts like the Silk Road, and the role of the Mongolian Empire as an Asian archetype for global power, of which Beijing covets its own version including through its Belt and Road Initiative.
...
nationalism and external enemies rather than class struggle – which is no longer available since party members themselves have become palpably China’s privileged elite.

Schmitt envisaged an anti-Western, anti-liberal world order of “great spaces”, spheres of influence, controlled by great powers.

Thus Schmitt Thought is playing a crucial role in helping the authoritarian instincts of the Russian and Chinese regimes cohere conceptually, and also anchoring their crucial mutual connection.

China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi underlined this in stressing 10 days after Putin launched the Ukraine invasion: “The China-Russia relationship is grounded in a clear logic of history and driven by strong internal dynamics.” Their connection is “rock solid,” Wang said. Schmitt-solid.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/how-resurgent-nazi-schmitt-shapes-russ...
 

Thanks for these articles.

Though flawed in some of the political ideology presented, they offer the possible foundations of an antidote to the present insanity of endless 'liberal' enabled wars - via the law of the jungle,  in opposition to a true international rules based system which, by definition in the age of MAD, would outlaw war.

So we are helplessly watching NATO, who cannot directly threaten a nuclear power -  sell conventional arms to Ukraine, which might soon be useless if the Russians can capture them.

Results so far; 6 million internally displace people in Ukraine: 3 million refugees to Europe and elsewhere, $trillions in property damage, skyrocketing fuel prices globally. 

Such is the chaos of the law of the jungle based,  liberal doctrine of "legal" war.



So Putin is now a 'liberal'. And Xi was a 'liberal' when he crushed Hong Kong despite international law and agreements guaranteeing its freedoms and remains a 'liberal' by constantlt undermining Taiwan and eventually attacking it. Ditto with the Ughyurs, Tibet, India, South China Sea, menacing Australia, Canada, Lithuania, UK, etc  -  Xi is acting like law of the jungle liberal.


You are out of your mind with your monomaniacal propaganda nonsense.

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« Last Edit: Mar 21st, 2022 at 3:55pm by Frank »  

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Re: Western Culture
Reply #337 - Mar 21st, 2022 at 4:09pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 3:50pm:
Koithegreatdivide wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 3:45pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 3:00pm:
Schmitt opposed what he viewed as liberal values including the separation of powers, and asserted that democracy should only be viewed as truly legitimate when it worked through acclamation, through group voices being raised at, for instance, public rallies, and not through ballot box elections.

He viewed liberalism and his version of democracy as incompatible, and disdained cosmopolitanism. The state, for Schmitt, was sovereign in his political theory in a similar way to God being sovereign in theology. Whoever held sovereign power and who identified a danger to their state’s existence, he wrote, could declare a “state of exception” exempting them from restraint by rule of law.

Politics including party ideology, he asserted, must be privileged over all other areas of life including the economy, and must identify groups of people as either friends or enemies, proclaiming approvingly as the Nazis took power that “the idea of ethnic identity will pervade and dominate all our public law” to ensure “cultural security”.

And his international theory, echoed by others, was dominated by his view of Eurasia as the central fulcrum of world power, a concept that fits naturally with Russian thinking but also increasingly attractive in China, taking in concepts like the Silk Road, and the role of the Mongolian Empire as an Asian archetype for global power, of which Beijing covets its own version including through its Belt and Road Initiative.
...
nationalism and external enemies rather than class struggle – which is no longer available since party members themselves have become palpably China’s privileged elite.

Schmitt envisaged an anti-Western, anti-liberal world order of “great spaces”, spheres of influence, controlled by great powers.

Thus Schmitt Thought is playing a crucial role in helping the authoritarian instincts of the Russian and Chinese regimes cohere conceptually, and also anchoring their crucial mutual connection.

China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi underlined this in stressing 10 days after Putin launched the Ukraine invasion: “The China-Russia relationship is grounded in a clear logic of history and driven by strong internal dynamics.” Their connection is “rock solid,” Wang said. Schmitt-solid.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/how-resurgent-nazi-schmitt-shapes-russ...
 

Thanks for these articles.

Though flawed in some of the political ideology presented, they offer the possible foundations of an antidote to the present insanity of endless 'liberal' enabled wars - via the law of the jungle,  in opposition to a true international rules based system which, by definition in the age of MAD, would outlaw war.

So we are helplessly watching NATO, who cannot directly threaten a nuclear power -  sell conventional arms to Ukraine, which might soon be useless if the Russians can capture them.

Results so far; 6 million internally displace people in Ukraine: 3 million refugees to Europe and elsewhere, $trillions in property damage, skyrocketing fuel prices globally. 

Such is the chaos of the law of the jungle based,  liberal doctrine of "legal" war.

So Putin is now a 'liberal'.
 

When it comes to the insane liberal doctrine of "legal" war, yes.

And he has a veto in the UNSC.....which you by default grant him, because you insist your own nation (or it's ally in the UNSC) also has a veto.

Quote:
And Xi was a 'liberal' when he crushed Hong Kong despite international law and agreements guaranteeing its freedoms and and constantlt undermining Taiwan and eventually attacking it.


(Leaving aside there is currently no defensible (or defendable) international law...); HK is legally part of China, the secessionists are law breakers.  Ditto for Taiwan, except  the historical situation makes  Taiwan
more difficult for the CCP to solve. Hopefully Xi will bide his time, so that a shot need never be fired.

Quote:
You are out of your mind with your monomaniacal propaganda nonsense.


Examined and refuted above.
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #338 - Mar 22nd, 2022 at 7:12pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 7th, 2022 at 7:43am:
Ayn Marx wrote on Mar 6th, 2022 at 7:13pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 6th, 2022 at 5:24pm:
Illegal is illegal when the CCP says it’s illegal. That how CCP officials can rape torture murder and disappear people at will.

The CCP is above all law and all officials acting in its name are immune from prosecution.

These are the core reasons Taiwan wants nothing to do with the CCP


True, but have you considered these nasty political hyprocracies aren’t unique to the CCP?

Power is corruptive.

All governments, unchecked, tend towards corruption.

All people wielding power tend towards corruption.

Its most common manifestations are nepotism, theft, brutality, rape, murder, and incarceration without open and due process.

There is no cure or vaccine for it.

The only preventative, or check on it, is:

- a properly constituted system of government that submits to the rule of law (as opposed to no rule of law, or the CCP's rule by law),

- a judiciary that is independent of a government's executive and allows justice to be seen to be done

- a free and independent media capable of reporting corruption of government apparatchiks to the people and to the courts.


Finally some sanity BUT there’s the too often hidden problem at work, no matter what ideology is imposed or accepted, the nature of homo sapiens. There’s a ghost in the machine.
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #339 - Mar 22nd, 2022 at 9:11pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 4:09pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 3:50pm:
Koithegreatdivide wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 3:45pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 21st, 2022 at 3:00pm:
Schmitt opposed what he viewed as liberal values including the separation of powers, and asserted that democracy should only be viewed as truly legitimate when it worked through acclamation, through group voices being raised at, for instance, public rallies, and not through ballot box elections.

He viewed liberalism and his version of democracy as incompatible, and disdained cosmopolitanism. The state, for Schmitt, was sovereign in his political theory in a similar way to God being sovereign in theology. Whoever held sovereign power and who identified a danger to their state’s existence, he wrote, could declare a “state of exception” exempting them from restraint by rule of law.

Politics including party ideology, he asserted, must be privileged over all other areas of life including the economy, and must identify groups of people as either friends or enemies, proclaiming approvingly as the Nazis took power that “the idea of ethnic identity will pervade and dominate all our public law” to ensure “cultural security”.

And his international theory, echoed by others, was dominated by his view of Eurasia as the central fulcrum of world power, a concept that fits naturally with Russian thinking but also increasingly attractive in China, taking in concepts like the Silk Road, and the role of the Mongolian Empire as an Asian archetype for global power, of which Beijing covets its own version including through its Belt and Road Initiative.
...
nationalism and external enemies rather than class struggle – which is no longer available since party members themselves have become palpably China’s privileged elite.

Schmitt envisaged an anti-Western, anti-liberal world order of “great spaces”, spheres of influence, controlled by great powers.

Thus Schmitt Thought is playing a crucial role in helping the authoritarian instincts of the Russian and Chinese regimes cohere conceptually, and also anchoring their crucial mutual connection.

China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi underlined this in stressing 10 days after Putin launched the Ukraine invasion: “The China-Russia relationship is grounded in a clear logic of history and driven by strong internal dynamics.” Their connection is “rock solid,” Wang said. Schmitt-solid.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/how-resurgent-nazi-schmitt-shapes-russ...
 

Thanks for these articles.

Though flawed in some of the political ideology presented, they offer the possible foundations of an antidote to the present insanity of endless 'liberal' enabled wars - via the law of the jungle,  in opposition to a true international rules based system which, by definition in the age of MAD, would outlaw war.

So we are helplessly watching NATO, who cannot directly threaten a nuclear power -  sell conventional arms to Ukraine, which might soon be useless if the Russians can capture them.

Results so far; 6 million internally displace people in Ukraine: 3 million refugees to Europe and elsewhere, $trillions in property damage, skyrocketing fuel prices globally. 

Such is the chaos of the law of the jungle based,  liberal doctrine of "legal" war.

So Putin is now a 'liberal'.
 

When it comes to the insane liberal doctrine of "legal" war, yes.

And he has a veto in the UNSC.....which you by default grant him, because you insist your own nation (or it's ally in the UNSC) also has a veto.

Quote:
And Xi was a 'liberal' when he crushed Hong Kong despite international law and agreements guaranteeing its freedoms and and constantlt undermining Taiwan and eventually attacking it.


(Leaving aside there is currently no defensible (or defendable) international law...); HK is legally part of China, the secessionists are law breakers.  Ditto for Taiwan, except  the historical situation makes  Taiwan
more difficult for the CCP to solve. Hopefully Xi will bide his time, so that a shot need never be fired.

Quote:
You are out of your mind with your monomaniacal propaganda nonsense.


Examined and refuted above.



What is wrong with people NOT wanting to be part of China? Why can't they self-determine?
Why must China impose on everyone? Why not fcck off?



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thegreatdivide
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #340 - Mar 23rd, 2022 at 2:52pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 22nd, 2022 at 9:11pm:
What is wrong with people NOT wanting to be part of China? Why can't they self-determine?
Why must China impose on everyone? Why not fcck off?


Assuming you accept your mistake in HK, which is legally part of China (and would you allow WA to secede from Oz, merely because they wanted to?); Taiwan is populated by the losers of the 1949 civil war.

And now these losers are allowing China's chief self-identified adversary,  the US - who is flat our containing the "China threat"  (to US global hegemony, that is)  -  to arm Taiwan against the mainland, an act of treason.


But  if the US would f**k off, China could no doubt  tolerate a one country 2-systems approach to the island, since war would be an expensive, unnecessary and destructive exercise.

And even build a road and rail bridge, plans for which are well-advanced.   


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Frank
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #341 - Mar 23rd, 2022 at 3:32pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 23rd, 2022 at 2:52pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 22nd, 2022 at 9:11pm:
What is wrong with people NOT wanting to be part of China? Why can't they self-determine?
Why must China impose on everyone? Why not fcck off?


Assuming you accept your mistake in HK, which is legally part of China (and would you allow WA to secede from Oz, merely because they wanted to?); Taiwan is populated by the losers of the 1949 civil war.

And now these losers are allowing China's chief self-identified adversary,  the US - who is flat our containing the "China threat"  (to US global hegemony, that is)  -  to arm Taiwan against the mainland, an act of treason.


But  if the US would f**k off, China could no doubt  tolerate a one country 2-systems approach to the island, since war would be an expensive, unnecessary and destructive exercise.

And even build a road and rail bridge, plans for which are well-advanced.   




China threatens everyone. Taiwan doesn't threaten anyone. They just don't want to be ruled by commies.
If China got rid of the CCP and stopped being a commie dictatorship, Taiwan would then happily reunite. After all, it's raison d'etre is solely that it doesn't want to be ruled by commies.

If WA wanted to secede they could do so.  Good luck to them. Only thug countries like Russia and China think that they can militarily annex other countries that do not want to be annexed.



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« Last Edit: Mar 24th, 2022 at 3:29pm by Frank »  

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Re: Western Culture
Reply #342 - Mar 23rd, 2022 at 9:52pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 23rd, 2022 at 3:32pm:
If China got rid of the CCP and stoped being a commie dictatorship...


It's actually a consensus meritocracy:

https://lkyspp.nus.edu.sg/gia/article/is-china-modernising-meritocracy-for-publi...

"Moreover, a great strategy has been raised by Xi; a so-called fresh, brand-new mode of public governance has been experimented, and a new world order is emerging. It is argued that those who will be alive around 2050 will witness the rise of China to an unprecedented level. More fundamentally, Xi emphasizes meritocracy and would like to apply it to every corner of public governance in China. A question arises naturally: whether meritocracy, which the Chinese views as a tradition and may be regenerated by the Xi regime, can enlighten public governance in China and beyond?"


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Re: Western Culture
Reply #343 - Mar 24th, 2022 at 3:46pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 23rd, 2022 at 3:32pm:
‘Resolution of the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party on the Major Achievements and Historical Experience of the Party over the Past Century’


In order to explain the various turns in the lifespan of the CCP as consistent with an unchanging Marxist narrative, the document repeats Xi’s constant assertions that the Eighth National Congress, held in 1956 and 1958, recognised that socialism is a stage towards the final attainment of communism. This allows Xi’s contemporary CCP to incorporate Deng Xiaoping’s opening up as central to ‘socialism with Chinese characteristics’, not a deviation from it. Quoting Deng, the document observes ‘when everything has to be done by the book, when thinking turns rigid and blind faith is the fashion, it is impossible for a party or nation to make progress. Its life will cease and that party or nation will perish.’ Many of Xi’s actions since becoming the General Secretary have been directed at controlling this narrative. His ‘common prosperity’ drive is as much about endeavouring to reconcile a system that maintains a Marxist ideology, but has allowed the accumulation of great wealth by individuals, as anything else. A plausible explanation of Deng’s economic direction is required to maintain the CCP’s Marxist ideology. If ordinary Chinese people began to believe otherwise, the edifice of the CCP would be in danger of collapse.

Significantly, the document praises Deng for saving the CCP from the plight of the Soviet Union. ‘The late 1980s and early 1990s witnessed the demise of the Soviet Union and the drastic changes in Eastern European countries.’ In a veiled reference to the unmentionable Tiananmen Square protests, the history adds: ‘In the late spring and early summer of 1989, a severe political disturbance took place in China as a result of the international and domestic climates of the time, and was egged on by hostile anti-communist and anti-socialist forces abroad. With the people’s backing, the party and the government took a clear stand against the turmoil, defending China’s socialist state power and safeguarding the fundamental interests of the people.’

Avoiding the fate of the Soviet Union remains the fixation of the Chinese leadership. Whether Xi actually believes that his leadership is now critical to the existence of a Marxist-Leninist ideological movement or it is simply a means to maintaining the power of the CCP elite is moot. His writings suggest both. Last year, the CCP published a new book, Questions and Answers on the Study of Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for a New Era, in which Xi asserted that communism would triumph in the struggle with bourgeois democracy. The world, in his view, is a ‘competition of two ideologies and two social systems.’ While many in the West continue to debate whether we are engaged in a new Cold War, Xi is prosecuting it.

https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/03/history-of-the-ccp-part-2/


Full Text: Resolution of the CPC Central Committee on the Major Achievements and Historical Experience of the Party over the Past Century
Updated: Nov 16,2021 20:50    Xinhua
https://english.www.gov.cn/policies/latestreleases/202111/16/content_WS6193a935c...

A taste of its rhetoric:
Preamble

Since its founding in 1921, the Communist Party of China (CPC) has remained true to its original aspiration and mission of seeking happiness for the Chinese people and rejuvenation for the Chinese nation. Staying committed to communist ideals and socialist convictions, it has united and led Chinese people of all ethnic groups in working tirelessly to achieve national independence and liberation, and then to make our country prosperous and strong and pursue a better life. The past century has been a glorious journey.
ZZzzzz.......
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« Last Edit: Mar 24th, 2022 at 3:55pm by Frank »  

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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #344 - Mar 24th, 2022 at 4:08pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 23rd, 2022 at 9:52pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 23rd, 2022 at 3:32pm:
If China got rid of the CCP and stoped being a commie dictatorship...


It's actually a consensus meritocracy:

https://lkyspp.nus.edu.sg/gia/article/is-china-modernising-meritocracy-for-publi...

"Moreover, a great strategy has been raised by Xi; a so-called fresh, brand-new mode of public governance has been experimented, and a new world order is emerging. It is argued that those who will be alive around 2050 will witness the rise of China to an unprecedented level. More fundamentally, Xi emphasizes meritocracy and would like to apply it to every corner of public governance in China. A question arises naturally: whether meritocracy, which the Chinese views as a tradition and may be regenerated by the Xi regime, can enlighten public governance in China and beyond?"



Reading CCP's promotions of itself is like reading sham yogis weaving quantum physics into religion.
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