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Question: Was there a chance that Indigenous Australians practiced agriculture?
*** This poll has now closed ***


Yes    
  8 (53.3%)
No    
  7 (46.7%)




Total votes: 15
« Created by: Brian Ross on: Apr 29th, 2021 at 2:26pm »

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A real history of Aboriginal Australians (Read 23431 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #360 - May 14th, 2021 at 6:44pm
 

...

Dear, oh, dear, still no effort by the Racists to actually refute what Pascoe has said.  They just prefer to engage in argumentum ad hominem debate. They just believe personal insults will replace reasoned debate.  It worked for them for generations so why would they stop now?  Tsk, tsk, still nothing that argues against Pascoe's quoting of the journals of the early explorers/settlers where they describe encountering fields of native foods.  Even when Valkie admits that he doesn't understand the argument, he still argues.  Typical Racist behaviour it seems, all passion, no sense.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Karnal
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Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #361 - May 14th, 2021 at 10:37pm
 
Valkie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 6:28pm:
Hey bwyannnnnnnnnn

Tap, tap, tap.

Are you in there bwyannnnnnnn?

Did you even read my post where the qualified and experienced archaeologists refuted Pascoe lies?

What evidence do you want?

What would prove to you that Pascoe has no idea and is a liar?

When 4 qualified and very competent archiologists say
PASCOE IS A LIAR.
And you still believe him over said QUALIFIED AND EXPERIENCED archiologists.

You are either having a brain feet or an aneurysm.

You are somewhat stupid if this isn't enough.


Still nothing bwyannnnnnnnnnnn?????

Amazing how when you get caught out you run away and hide.

Must be the muzzo in you.


Yes, Brian, it's really important that you answer Matty's points in full. Don't fall asleep, please, kindly stay awake.

Matty has quoted an eminent professor who directly contradicts something. Matty's just not sure what that is.

Could you tell Matty what to say please, dear?

Cheers.
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Bertie
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Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #362 - May 14th, 2021 at 11:07pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 5:06pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:57am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:10am:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 2:59am:
There is no history of Aboriginal Australians... just a lot of folk memory....

....not that there's anything wrong with that...or once the Chinese take over and free the Kaffir - not that there's anything Wong with that........


There was no history of ancient Egypt or ancient Greece or any society without writing like Medieval Europe.  Just an awful lot of "folk memory".  Verbal history has long been recognised as the storehouse of history for a society.  Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Egyptian, greek and other ancient histories are not based on oral story telling. They did have very extensive written records.
History writing did not start in medieval Europe.



Want a bet?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Go on.

Let's see what twist you have.

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Brian Ross
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Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #363 - May 14th, 2021 at 11:46pm
 
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 5:06pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:57am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:10am:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 2:59am:
There is no history of Aboriginal Australians... just a lot of folk memory....

....not that there's anything wrong with that...or once the Chinese take over and free the Kaffir - not that there's anything Wong with that........


There was no history of ancient Egypt or ancient Greece or any society without writing like Medieval Europe.  Just an awful lot of "folk memory".  Verbal history has long been recognised as the storehouse of history for a society.  Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Egyptian, greek and other ancient histories are not based on oral story telling. They did have very extensive written records.
History writing did not start in medieval Europe.



Want a bet?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Go on.

Let's see what twist you have.


So, what are you betting?  You've dismally failed to prove I have said what I have not.  How about a bottle of cheap red wine?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #364 - May 15th, 2021 at 12:38am
 
There is no real history of Aboriginal Australians... only anecdotes from people 232 years after the event...

Is that why the Wokeists want fifty year old rape clams to be upheld without question and evidence?  Same with Pascoitis.... any claim will do as long as it sounds good enough... and stuff the evidence.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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Mr Hammer
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Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #365 - May 15th, 2021 at 6:18am
 
Brian, have you ever heard of the term, 'archealogical paleontology'?.
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Valkie
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Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #366 - May 15th, 2021 at 8:18am
 
Because bwyannnnnnn obviously didnt read the post.

HGere it is again,

OK;

After considerable reading of subject matter from several Qualified and Accredited academics.
There is nothing at all to back up Pascoes lies about Farming or cities of aboriginals pre-colonization.

Dr Christopher Lloyd , Emeritus Professor of Economic History in School of Business, University of New England, Armidale
Quote:

Australian Aborigines were foragers or hunter/gatherers before European colonisation.
Neither agriculture in the sense of settled communities of cultivators nor pastoralism in the sense of settled or nomadic groups with domestic animals existed in Australia.


There were areas of partially sedentary material culture where food sources were abundant, such as some river valleys and coastlines. There were, however, no permanent dwellings, no real villages and very few possessions.
Nomadic foraging was by far the dominant socioeconomic system.
As with foragers elsewhere, however, here there was a wide variety of activity, dependent to a large degree on the environment in which people lived.

Aboriginal people did a great deal to mould the landscape to their needs by, for example, firestick farming to improve grasslands for grazing animals, building fish traps in shallow riverbeds and coastal zones or building canoes for hunting marine mammals and fish. There was much local specialisation in food production depending on natural conditions, and the manufacture of tools was a matter of local specialisation—again, depending on resources.
Trade of tools and special materials with neighbouring peoples and over long distances across many language boundaries has been well studied (see Butlin 1993; Keen 2004). It seems clear that there was a continent-wide system of cultural diffusion and trading networks.   



Furthemore;
Dr Ian Keen is Honorary Associate Professor, School of Archaeology and Anthropology, College Arts & Social Sciences at the Australia National University in Canberra. His distinguished academic career spans more than forty years.

Historian Professor Geoffrey Blainey

Academic, who specialised in covering research in history, anthropology and botany, Bill Gammage, in his 2011 book, The Biggest Estate on Earth.

Rhys Jones (archaeologist)

All of the above have stated professionally that Australian Aboriginals were not and have never been true farmers.
They use the term "Firestick" farming (setting fire to control growth).
Which was probably misinterpreted by the semi-literate lazy researcher Pascoe as farming in an agricultural term.

All state that Aborigines never lived in cities or even villages, but may have lived in collectives where food sources were plentyful.
And that housing structures did not nor ever have existed.

The "fish traps" so revered in myth and lore were the result of natural phenomenon and some opportunistic placement of rocks to make traps.
Not unheard of in primitive people and certainly not indicative of an established farming and coordinated enterprise.

Again;
Quote:

Australian Aborigines were foragers or hunter/gatherers before European colonisation.
Neither agriculture in the sense of settled communities of cultivators nor pastoralism in the sense of settled or nomadic groups with domestic animals existed in Australia.   


My conclusion, which will be refuted by Pascoe's worshipers, is that Australian Aborigines were nothing more than Primitive hunter gatherers.
Sure, some took advantage of some natural elements and< as they do, Loved setting fires.


But there is not one shred of true evidence that agriculture, aquaculture or building is/or has been found to date.

Finally;
Quote:
To amateurs like us, all this controversy over how to define the economies of pre-colonial Aboriginal societies just sounds like semantics.
Aboriginal people were quite happy with their lives as very skilled and successful hunter gatherers.
If 250 years later, politically motivated academics and activists want to engage in world play by calling Aboriginal people farmers, living in settled stone villages of 1000 people, so be it.
It won’t make any difference to the Aboriginal Sovereignty argument - When the British colonised New South Wales in 1788 they legally ‘settled’ here amongst nomadic, native hunter gatherers. It was not a  ‘conquest’ or ‘cession’ of settled farmers who had a recognisable social government, as understood by the legal definitions of the time, so no Treaty was required.

Academics can write as many papers as they like with ‘Farming’ in the title such as, ‘Food-getting, Domestication and Farming in Pre-colonial Australia’ and then have to admit that, ‘This paper argues that Australian Aboriginal economies do conform to the “complex” hunter gatherer archetype’. (ibid. p116). Which is what all us amateurs already know -
Aboriginal people were brilliant and successful hunter gatherers and fishers with many complex tools and practices. They were not farmers.
Dr Ian Keen
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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Mr Hammer
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Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #367 - May 15th, 2021 at 8:25am
 
Some of that activitiy could be labelled advanced hunting and gathering/ early agriculture.
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Valkie
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Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #368 - May 15th, 2021 at 8:32am
 
Mr Hammer wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 8:25am:
Some of that activitiy could be labelled advanced hunting and gathering/ early agriculture.



But far from the cities and hundreds of acres of farming as described by the liar pascoe.
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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Gnads
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Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #369 - May 15th, 2021 at 9:33am
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:46pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 5:06pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:57am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:10am:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 2:59am:
There is no history of Aboriginal Australians... just a lot of folk memory....

....not that there's anything wrong with that...or once the Chinese take over and free the Kaffir - not that there's anything Wong with that........


There was no history of ancient Egypt or ancient Greece or any society without writing like Medieval Europe.  Just an awful lot of "folk memory".  Verbal history has long been recognised as the storehouse of history for a society.  Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Egyptian, greek and other ancient histories are not based on oral story telling. They did have very extensive written records.
History writing did not start in medieval Europe.



Want a bet?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Go on.

Let's see what twist you have.


So, what are you betting?  You've dismally failed to prove I have said what I have not.  How about a bottle of cheap red wine?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Be your style, you'd know how good it is after many a time waking up on a park bench with a sore arse & 2 bob in your hand.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #370 - May 15th, 2021 at 10:53am
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 6:44pm:
https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/google/223...

Dear, oh, dear, still no effort by the Racists to actually refute what Pascoe has said.  They just prefer to engage in argumentum ad hominem debate. They just believe personal insults will replace reasoned debate.  It worked for them for generations so why would they stop now?  Tsk, tsk, still nothing that argues against Pascoe's quoting of the journals of the early explorers/settlers where they describe encountering fields of native foods.  Even when Valkie admits that he doesn't understand the argument, he still argues.  Typical Racist behaviour it seems, all passion, no sense.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes




Post 352 Brian.
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)
 
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cods
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Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #371 - May 15th, 2021 at 11:09am
 
Belgarion wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 12:33pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:12am:
https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/google/223...

Dear, oh, dear, still no effort by the Racists to actually refute what Pascoe has said.  They just prefer to engage in argumentum ad hominem debate. They just believe personal insults will replace reasoned debate.  It worked for them for generations so why would they stop now?  Tsk, tsk, still nothing that argues against Pascoe's quoting of the journals of the early explorers/settlers where they describe encountering fields of native foods.  Even when Valkie admits that he doesn't understand the argument, he still argues.  Typical Racist behaviour it seems, all passion, no sense.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes







OK then, here are some aboriginals who refute Pascoe's claims. Although it seems at least one was pressured into a change of heart  the original letter shows just what the real aboriginals think: https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/bruce-pascoe-scandal-yolngu-now-d...

And there is this from historian Geoffrey Blainey https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/bruce-pascoes-claims-about-indigenous-s...

Or this: https://quadrant.org.au/product/bitter-harvest/

When Aboriginal groups and noted historians and authors all get together to offer evidence to counter  Pascoe's opinions then I think we can safely say he is wrong.

As for his alleged source material from explorers journals, eems Pascoe was not above altering Sturts words to fit his claims.:
https://australianhistory972829073.wordpress.com/2019/11/14/bruce-pascoe-what-di...



none so blind as those who will not see..

bri is rusted on and a true follower of Pascoe he doesnt live in the same reality as the rest of us sadly..I refuse to take him seriously  the same as  I do with most fools... Smiley Smiley
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Mr Hammer
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Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #372 - May 15th, 2021 at 1:43pm
 
Valkie wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 8:32am:
Mr Hammer wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 8:25am:
Some of that activitiy could be labelled advanced hunting and gathering/ early agriculture.



But far from the cities and hundreds of acres of farming as described by the liar pascoe.


Lake George, Sudan 13000 BC. Not Sumer 3000 BC.
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Karnal
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Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #373 - May 15th, 2021 at 1:53pm
 
Valkie wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 8:32am:
Mr Hammer wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 8:25am:
Some of that activitiy could be labelled advanced hunting and gathering/ early agriculture.



But far from the cities and hundreds of acres of farming as described by the liar pascoe.


Where did he say that, Matty?

Oh, that's right. Not saying.
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Brian Ross
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Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #374 - May 15th, 2021 at 2:53pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 6:18am:
Brian, have you ever heard of the term, 'archealogical paleontology'?.


No.  Why?  They are different disciplines which have different approaches to the issue in question. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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