Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Poll closed Poll
Question: Was there a chance that Indigenous Australians practiced agriculture?
*** This poll has now closed ***


Yes    
  8 (53.3%)
No    
  7 (46.7%)




Total votes: 15
« Created by: Brian Ross on: Apr 29th, 2021 at 2:26pm »

Pages: 1 ... 24 25 26 27 28 ... 31
Send Topic Print
A real history of Aboriginal Australians (Read 23433 times)
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 42637
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #375 - May 15th, 2021 at 2:55pm
 
Valkie wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 8:32am:
Mr Hammer wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 8:25am:
Some of that activitiy could be labelled advanced hunting and gathering/ early agriculture.



But far from the cities and hundreds of acres of farming as described by the liar pascoe.


You mean by the early explorers/settlers who Pascoe quotes, Matty?  Tsk, tsk.  So, what you going to do to refute the descriptions that he supplied?  Mmmm?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 42637
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #376 - May 15th, 2021 at 2:56pm
 
Belgarion wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 10:53am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 6:44pm:
https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/google/223...

Dear, oh, dear, still no effort by the Racists to actually refute what Pascoe has said.  They just prefer to engage in argumentum ad hominem debate. They just believe personal insults will replace reasoned debate.  It worked for them for generations so why would they stop now?  Tsk, tsk, still nothing that argues against Pascoe's quoting of the journals of the early explorers/settlers where they describe encountering fields of native foods.  Even when Valkie admits that he doesn't understand the argument, he still argues.  Typical Racist behaviour it seems, all passion, no sense.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes




Post 352 Brian.


Still true now as it was then, Belgarion.  Your point is?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Valkie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16142
Central Coast
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #377 - May 15th, 2021 at 3:12pm
 
Valkie wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 8:18am:
Because bwyannnnnnn obviously didnt read the post.

HGere it is again,

OK;

After considerable reading of subject matter from several Qualified and Accredited academics.
There is nothing at all to back up Pascoes lies about Farming or cities of aboriginals pre-colonization.

Dr Christopher Lloyd , Emeritus Professor of Economic History in School of Business, University of New England, Armidale
Quote:

Australian Aborigines were foragers or hunter/gatherers before European colonisation.
Neither agriculture in the sense of settled communities of cultivators nor pastoralism in the sense of settled or nomadic groups with domestic animals existed in Australia.


There were areas of partially sedentary material culture where food sources were abundant, such as some river valleys and coastlines. There were, however, no permanent dwellings, no real villages and very few possessions.
Nomadic foraging was by far the dominant socioeconomic system.
As with foragers elsewhere, however, here there was a wide variety of activity, dependent to a large degree on the environment in which people lived.

Aboriginal people did a great deal to mould the landscape to their needs by, for example, firestick farming to improve grasslands for grazing animals, building fish traps in shallow riverbeds and coastal zones or building canoes for hunting marine mammals and fish. There was much local specialisation in food production depending on natural conditions, and the manufacture of tools was a matter of local specialisation—again, depending on resources.
Trade of tools and special materials with neighbouring peoples and over long distances across many language boundaries has been well studied (see Butlin 1993; Keen 2004). It seems clear that there was a continent-wide system of cultural diffusion and trading networks.   



Furthemore;
Dr Ian Keen is Honorary Associate Professor, School of Archaeology and Anthropology, College Arts & Social Sciences at the Australia National University in Canberra. His distinguished academic career spans more than forty years.

Historian Professor Geoffrey Blainey

Academic, who specialised in covering research in history, anthropology and botany, Bill Gammage, in his 2011 book, The Biggest Estate on Earth.

Rhys Jones (archaeologist)

All of the above have stated professionally that Australian Aboriginals were not and have never been true farmers.
They use the term "Firestick" farming (setting fire to control growth).
Which was probably misinterpreted by the semi-literate lazy researcher Pascoe as farming in an agricultural term.

All state that Aborigines never lived in cities or even villages, but may have lived in collectives where food sources were plentyful.
And that housing structures did not nor ever have existed.

The "fish traps" so revered in myth and lore were the result of natural phenomenon and some opportunistic placement of rocks to make traps.
Not unheard of in primitive people and certainly not indicative of an established farming and coordinated enterprise.

Again;
Quote:

Australian Aborigines were foragers or hunter/gatherers before European colonisation.
Neither agriculture in the sense of settled communities of cultivators nor pastoralism in the sense of settled or nomadic groups with domestic animals existed in Australia.   


My conclusion, which will be refuted by Pascoe's worshipers, is that Australian Aborigines were nothing more than Primitive hunter gatherers.
Sure, some took advantage of some natural elements and< as they do, Loved setting fires.


But there is not one shred of true evidence that agriculture, aquaculture or building is/or has been found to date.

Finally;
Quote:
To amateurs like us, all this controversy over how to define the economies of pre-colonial Aboriginal societies just sounds like semantics.
Aboriginal people were quite happy with their lives as very skilled and successful hunter gatherers.
If 250 years later, politically motivated academics and activists want to engage in world play by calling Aboriginal people farmers, living in settled stone villages of 1000 people, so be it.
It won’t make any difference to the Aboriginal Sovereignty argument - When the British colonised New South Wales in 1788 they legally ‘settled’ here amongst nomadic, native hunter gatherers. It was not a  ‘conquest’ or ‘cession’ of settled farmers who had a recognisable social government, as understood by the legal definitions of the time, so no Treaty was required.

Academics can write as many papers as they like with ‘Farming’ in the title such as, ‘Food-getting, Domestication and Farming in Pre-colonial Australia’ and then have to admit that, ‘This paper argues that Australian Aboriginal economies do conform to the “complex” hunter gatherer archetype’. (ibid. p116). Which is what all us amateurs already know -
Aboriginal people were brilliant and successful hunter gatherers and fishers with many complex tools and practices. They were not farmers.
Dr Ian Keen

Back to top
 

I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
IP Logged
 
Bertie
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 785
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #378 - May 15th, 2021 at 8:18pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:46pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 5:06pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:57am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:10am:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 2:59am:
There is no history of Aboriginal Australians... just a lot of folk memory....

....not that there's anything wrong with that...or once the Chinese take over and free the Kaffir - not that there's anything Wong with that........


There was no history of ancient Egypt or ancient Greece or any society without writing like Medieval Europe.  Just an awful lot of "folk memory".  Verbal history has long been recognised as the storehouse of history for a society.  Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Egyptian, greek and other ancient histories are not based on oral story telling. They did have very extensive written records.
History writing did not start in medieval Europe.



Want a bet?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Go on.

Let's see what twist you have.


So, what are you betting?  You've dismally failed to prove I have said what I have not.  How about a bottle of cheap red wine?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

You said


There was no history of ancient Egypt or ancient Greece or any society without writing like Medieval Europe.  Just an awful lot of "folk memory.

That is stupid and ignorant. And slimey.  I don't have to 'prove' that you said it, it's all there.

You probably said that, and much else you are posting, under the influence of several bottles of cheap red wine.  You score zero on consistency and coherence - don't tell me it's the sober, considered expression of your mind.




Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 42637
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #379 - May 15th, 2021 at 8:27pm
 
...

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Weaselling out of that I claimed, "Agatha"?  Tsk, tsk.  Run along back to your bridge.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Bertie
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 785
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #380 - May 15th, 2021 at 8:52pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 8:27pm:
https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/google/223...

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Weaselling out of that I claimed, "Agatha"?  Tsk, tsk.  Run along back to your bridge.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Be honest ( big ask, I know). And meaningful. (Huge ask): "Weaselling out of that I claimed, Agatha?" -  what the hell does THAT mean? 

Which of your claims am I weaselling out of?  (If that's your question). You are not going to be straight about it, are you? Of course not. You just want to keep saying 'weaselling' without ever honestly saying which of your statements is the subject here.

I have looked at your last 25 posts. About 20 are the same yawning and repetitious formulaic nonsense. A bit compulsively wanky, don't you feel? For a grownup? 





Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Valkie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16142
Central Coast
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #381 - May 15th, 2021 at 9:12pm
 
Valkie wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 3:12pm:
Valkie wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 8:18am:
Because bwyannnnnnn obviously didnt read the post.

HGere it is again,

OK;

After considerable reading of subject matter from several Qualified and Accredited academics.
There is nothing at all to back up Pascoes lies about Farming or cities of aboriginals pre-colonization.

Dr Christopher Lloyd , Emeritus Professor of Economic History in School of Business, University of New England, Armidale
Quote:

Australian Aborigines were foragers or hunter/gatherers before European colonisation.
Neither agriculture in the sense of settled communities of cultivators nor pastoralism in the sense of settled or nomadic groups with domestic animals existed in Australia.


There were areas of partially sedentary material culture where food sources were abundant, such as some river valleys and coastlines. There were, however, no permanent dwellings, no real villages and very few possessions.
Nomadic foraging was by far the dominant socioeconomic system.
As with foragers elsewhere, however, here there was a wide variety of activity, dependent to a large degree on the environment in which people lived.

Aboriginal people did a great deal to mould the landscape to their needs by, for example, firestick farming to improve grasslands for grazing animals, building fish traps in shallow riverbeds and coastal zones or building canoes for hunting marine mammals and fish. There was much local specialisation in food production depending on natural conditions, and the manufacture of tools was a matter of local specialisation—again, depending on resources.
Trade of tools and special materials with neighbouring peoples and over long distances across many language boundaries has been well studied (see Butlin 1993; Keen 2004). It seems clear that there was a continent-wide system of cultural diffusion and trading networks.   



Furthemore;
Dr Ian Keen is Honorary Associate Professor, School of Archaeology and Anthropology, College Arts & Social Sciences at the Australia National University in Canberra. His distinguished academic career spans more than forty years.

Historian Professor Geoffrey Blainey

Academic, who specialised in covering research in history, anthropology and botany, Bill Gammage, in his 2011 book, The Biggest Estate on Earth.

Rhys Jones (archaeologist)

All of the above have stated professionally that Australian Aboriginals were not and have never been true farmers.
They use the term "Firestick" farming (setting fire to control growth).
Which was probably misinterpreted by the semi-literate lazy researcher Pascoe as farming in an agricultural term.

All state that Aborigines never lived in cities or even villages, but may have lived in collectives where food sources were plentyful.
And that housing structures did not nor ever have existed.

The "fish traps" so revered in myth and lore were the result of natural phenomenon and some opportunistic placement of rocks to make traps.
Not unheard of in primitive people and certainly not indicative of an established farming and coordinated enterprise.

Again;
Quote:

Australian Aborigines were foragers or hunter/gatherers before European colonisation.
Neither agriculture in the sense of settled communities of cultivators nor pastoralism in the sense of settled or nomadic groups with domestic animals existed in Australia.   


My conclusion, which will be refuted by Pascoe's worshipers, is that Australian Aborigines were nothing more than Primitive hunter gatherers.
Sure, some took advantage of some natural elements and< as they do, Loved setting fires.


But there is not one shred of true evidence that agriculture, aquaculture or building is/or has been found to date.

Finally;
Quote:
To amateurs like us, all this controversy over how to define the economies of pre-colonial Aboriginal societies just sounds like semantics.
Aboriginal people were quite happy with their lives as very skilled and successful hunter gatherers.
If 250 years later, politically motivated academics and activists want to engage in world play by calling Aboriginal people farmers, living in settled stone villages of 1000 people, so be it.
It won’t make any difference to the Aboriginal Sovereignty argument - When the British colonised New South Wales in 1788 they legally ‘settled’ here amongst nomadic, native hunter gatherers. It was not a  ‘conquest’ or ‘cession’ of settled farmers who had a recognisable social government, as understood by the legal definitions of the time, so no Treaty was required.

Academics can write as many papers as they like with ‘Farming’ in the title such as, ‘Food-getting, Domestication and Farming in Pre-colonial Australia’ and then have to admit that, ‘This paper argues that Australian Aboriginal economies do conform to the “complex” hunter gatherer archetype’. (ibid. p116). Which is what all us amateurs already know -
Aboriginal people were brilliant and successful hunter gatherers and fishers with many complex tools and practices. They were not farmers.
Dr Ian Keen


Back to top
 

I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Deep State Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 85502
Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #382 - May 16th, 2021 at 11:54am
 
I noticed that The Great Pascoe instantly made of 'cakes' something made from wheat etc... in the context of Sturt's time 'cake' can be anything made of smashed seed and water and cooked over a fire.

There is even cake for cows...
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 42637
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #383 - May 16th, 2021 at 11:57am
 

...

Dear, oh, dear, still no effort by the Racists to actually refute what Pascoe has said.  They just prefer to engage in argumentum ad hominem debate. They just believe personal insults will replace reasoned debate.  It worked for them for generations so why would they stop now?  Tsk, tsk, still nothing that argues against Pascoe's quoting of the journals of the early explorers/settlers where they describe encountering fields of native foods.  Even when Valkie admits that he doesn't understand the argument, he still argues.  Typical Racist behaviour it seems, all passion, no sense.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Valkie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16142
Central Coast
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #384 - May 16th, 2021 at 12:00pm
 
Valkie wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 9:12pm:
Valkie wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 3:12pm:
Valkie wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 8:18am:
Because bwyannnnnnn obviously didnt read the post.

HGere it is again,

OK;

After considerable reading of subject matter from several Qualified and Accredited academics.
There is nothing at all to back up Pascoes lies about Farming or cities of aboriginals pre-colonization.

Dr Christopher Lloyd , Emeritus Professor of Economic History in School of Business, University of New England, Armidale
Quote:

Australian Aborigines were foragers or hunter/gatherers before European colonisation.
Neither agriculture in the sense of settled communities of cultivators nor pastoralism in the sense of settled or nomadic groups with domestic animals existed in Australia.


There were areas of partially sedentary material culture where food sources were abundant, such as some river valleys and coastlines. There were, however, no permanent dwellings, no real villages and very few possessions.
Nomadic foraging was by far the dominant socioeconomic system.
As with foragers elsewhere, however, here there was a wide variety of activity, dependent to a large degree on the environment in which people lived.

Aboriginal people did a great deal to mould the landscape to their needs by, for example, firestick farming to improve grasslands for grazing animals, building fish traps in shallow riverbeds and coastal zones or building canoes for hunting marine mammals and fish. There was much local specialisation in food production depending on natural conditions, and the manufacture of tools was a matter of local specialisation—again, depending on resources.
Trade of tools and special materials with neighbouring peoples and over long distances across many language boundaries has been well studied (see Butlin 1993; Keen 2004). It seems clear that there was a continent-wide system of cultural diffusion and trading networks.   



Furthemore;
Dr Ian Keen is Honorary Associate Professor, School of Archaeology and Anthropology, College Arts & Social Sciences at the Australia National University in Canberra. His distinguished academic career spans more than forty years.

Historian Professor Geoffrey Blainey

Academic, who specialised in covering research in history, anthropology and botany, Bill Gammage, in his 2011 book, The Biggest Estate on Earth.

Rhys Jones (archaeologist)

All of the above have stated professionally that Australian Aboriginals were not and have never been true farmers.
They use the term "Firestick" farming (setting fire to control growth).
Which was probably misinterpreted by the semi-literate lazy researcher Pascoe as farming in an agricultural term.

All state that Aborigines never lived in cities or even villages, but may have lived in collectives where food sources were plentyful.
And that housing structures did not nor ever have existed.

The "fish traps" so revered in myth and lore were the result of natural phenomenon and some opportunistic placement of rocks to make traps.
Not unheard of in primitive people and certainly not indicative of an established farming and coordinated enterprise.

Again;
Quote:

Australian Aborigines were foragers or hunter/gatherers before European colonisation.
Neither agriculture in the sense of settled communities of cultivators nor pastoralism in the sense of settled or nomadic groups with domestic animals existed in Australia.   


My conclusion, which will be refuted by Pascoe's worshipers, is that Australian Aborigines were nothing more than Primitive hunter gatherers.
Sure, some took advantage of some natural elements and< as they do, Loved setting fires.


But there is not one shred of true evidence that agriculture, aquaculture or building is/or has been found to date.

Finally;
Quote:
To amateurs like us, all this controversy over how to define the economies of pre-colonial Aboriginal societies just sounds like semantics.
Aboriginal people were quite happy with their lives as very skilled and successful hunter gatherers.
If 250 years later, politically motivated academics and activists want to engage in world play by calling Aboriginal people farmers, living in settled stone villages of 1000 people, so be it.
It won’t make any difference to the Aboriginal Sovereignty argument - When the British colonised New South Wales in 1788 they legally ‘settled’ here amongst nomadic, native hunter gatherers. It was not a  ‘conquest’ or ‘cession’ of settled farmers who had a recognisable social government, as understood by the legal definitions of the time, so no Treaty was required.

Academics can write as many papers as they like with ‘Farming’ in the title such as, ‘Food-getting, Domestication and Farming in Pre-colonial Australia’ and then have to admit that, ‘This paper argues that Australian Aboriginal economies do conform to the “complex” hunter gatherer archetype’. (ibid. p116). Which is what all us amateurs already know -
Aboriginal people were brilliant and successful hunter gatherers and fishers with many complex tools and practices. They were not farmers.
Dr Ian Keen



Back to top
 

I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
IP Logged
 
Bertie
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 785
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #385 - May 16th, 2021 at 1:17pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:46pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 5:06pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:57am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:10am:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 2:59am:
There is no history of Aboriginal Australians... just a lot of folk memory....

....not that there's anything wrong with that...or once the Chinese take over and free the Kaffir - not that there's anything Wong with that........


There was no history of ancient Egypt or ancient Greece or any society without writing like Medieval Europe.  Just an awful lot of "folk memory".  Verbal history has long been recognised as the storehouse of history for a society.  Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Egyptian, greek and other ancient histories are not based on oral story telling. They did have very extensive written records.
History writing did not start in medieval Europe.



Want a bet?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Go on.

Let's see what twist you have.


So, what are you betting?  You've dismally failed to prove I have said what I have not.  How about a bottle of cheap red wine?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

What did you not say that I claimed you had?

I bet you will never clarify it.

Back to top
« Last Edit: May 16th, 2021 at 3:20pm by Bertie »  
 
IP Logged
 
BigP
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1924
West Auckland
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #386 - May 16th, 2021 at 3:02pm
 
Bertie wrote on May 16th, 2021 at 1:17pm:
MkBrian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:46pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 5:06pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:57am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:10am:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 2:59am:
There is no history of Aboriginal Australians... just a lot of folk memory....

....not that there's anything wrong with that...or once the Chinese take over and free the Kaffir - not that there's anything Wong with that........


There was no history of ancient Egypt or ancient Greece or any society without writing like Medieval Europe.  Just an awful lot of "folk memory".  Verbal history has long been recognised as the storehouse of history for a society.  Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Egyptian, greek and other ancient histories are not based on oral story telling. They did have very extensive written records.
History writing did not start in medieval Europe.



Want a bet?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Go on.

Let's see what twist you have.


So, what are you betting?  You've dismally failed to prove I have said what I have not.  How about a bottle of cheap red wine?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

What did you not say that I claimed you had?

I bet you will never clarify it.



Jesus Aggy you're lookin a little grumpy girl 
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bertie
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 785
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #387 - May 16th, 2021 at 3:19pm
 
BigP wrote on May 16th, 2021 at 3:02pm:
Jesus Aggy you're lookin a little grumpy girl 



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunt_Agatha
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 42637
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #388 - May 16th, 2021 at 3:32pm
 
BigP wrote on May 16th, 2021 at 3:02pm:
Bertie wrote on May 16th, 2021 at 1:17pm:
MkBrian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:46pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 5:06pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:57am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:10am:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 2:59am:
There is no history of Aboriginal Australians... just a lot of folk memory....

....not that there's anything wrong with that...or once the Chinese take over and free the Kaffir - not that there's anything Wong with that........


There was no history of ancient Egypt or ancient Greece or any society without writing like Medieval Europe.  Just an awful lot of "folk memory".  Verbal history has long been recognised as the storehouse of history for a society.  Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Egyptian, greek and other ancient histories are not based on oral story telling. They did have very extensive written records.
History writing did not start in medieval Europe.



Want a bet?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Go on.

Let's see what twist you have.


So, what are you betting?  You've dismally failed to prove I have said what I have not.  How about a bottle of cheap red wine?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

What did you not say that I claimed you had?

I bet you will never clarify it.



Jesus Aggy you're lookin a little grumpy girl 


That might because "Agatha" is in reality Soren, a Danish immigrant who suffers badly from Xenophobia.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Valkie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16142
Central Coast
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #389 - May 16th, 2021 at 4:46pm
 
Valkie wrote on May 16th, 2021 at 12:00pm:
Valkie wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 9:12pm:
Valkie wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 3:12pm:
Valkie wrote on May 15th, 2021 at 8:18am:
Because bwyannnnnnn obviously didnt read the post.

HGere it is again,

OK;

After considerable reading of subject matter from several Qualified and Accredited academics.
There is nothing at all to back up Pascoes lies about Farming or cities of aboriginals pre-colonization.

Dr Christopher Lloyd , Emeritus Professor of Economic History in School of Business, University of New England, Armidale
Quote:

Australian Aborigines were foragers or hunter/gatherers before European colonisation.
Neither agriculture in the sense of settled communities of cultivators nor pastoralism in the sense of settled or nomadic groups with domestic animals existed in Australia.


There were areas of partially sedentary material culture where food sources were abundant, such as some river valleys and coastlines. There were, however, no permanent dwellings, no real villages and very few possessions.
Nomadic foraging was by far the dominant socioeconomic system.
As with foragers elsewhere, however, here there was a wide variety of activity, dependent to a large degree on the environment in which people lived.

Aboriginal people did a great deal to mould the landscape to their needs by, for example, firestick farming to improve grasslands for grazing animals, building fish traps in shallow riverbeds and coastal zones or building canoes for hunting marine mammals and fish. There was much local specialisation in food production depending on natural conditions, and the manufacture of tools was a matter of local specialisation—again, depending on resources.
Trade of tools and special materials with neighbouring peoples and over long distances across many language boundaries has been well studied (see Butlin 1993; Keen 2004). It seems clear that there was a continent-wide system of cultural diffusion and trading networks.   



Furthemore;
Dr Ian Keen is Honorary Associate Professor, School of Archaeology and Anthropology, College Arts & Social Sciences at the Australia National University in Canberra. His distinguished academic career spans more than forty years.

Historian Professor Geoffrey Blainey

Academic, who specialised in covering research in history, anthropology and botany, Bill Gammage, in his 2011 book, The Biggest Estate on Earth.

Rhys Jones (archaeologist)

All of the above have stated professionally that Australian Aboriginals were not and have never been true farmers.
They use the term "Firestick" farming (setting fire to control growth).
Which was probably misinterpreted by the semi-literate lazy researcher Pascoe as farming in an agricultural term.

All state that Aborigines never lived in cities or even villages, but may have lived in collectives where food sources were plentyful.
And that housing structures did not nor ever have existed.

The "fish traps" so revered in myth and lore were the result of natural phenomenon and some opportunistic placement of rocks to make traps.
Not unheard of in primitive people and certainly not indicative of an established farming and coordinated enterprise.

Again;
Quote:

Australian Aborigines were foragers or hunter/gatherers before European colonisation.
Neither agriculture in the sense of settled communities of cultivators nor pastoralism in the sense of settled or nomadic groups with domestic animals existed in Australia.   


My conclusion, which will be refuted by Pascoe's worshipers, is that Australian Aborigines were nothing more than Primitive hunter gatherers.
Sure, some took advantage of some natural elements and< as they do, Loved setting fires.


But there is not one shred of true evidence that agriculture, aquaculture or building is/or has been found to date.

Finally;
Quote:
To amateurs like us, all this controversy over how to define the economies of pre-colonial Aboriginal societies just sounds like semantics.
Aboriginal people were quite happy with their lives as very skilled and successful hunter gatherers.
If 250 years later, politically motivated academics and activists want to engage in world play by calling Aboriginal people farmers, living in settled stone villages of 1000 people, so be it.
It won’t make any difference to the Aboriginal Sovereignty argument - When the British colonised New South Wales in 1788 they legally ‘settled’ here amongst nomadic, native hunter gatherers. It was not a  ‘conquest’ or ‘cession’ of settled farmers who had a recognisable social government, as understood by the legal definitions of the time, so no Treaty was required.

Academics can write as many papers as they like with ‘Farming’ in the title such as, ‘Food-getting, Domestication and Farming in Pre-colonial Australia’ and then have to admit that, ‘This paper argues that Australian Aboriginal economies do conform to the “complex” hunter gatherer archetype’. (ibid. p116). Which is what all us amateurs already know -
Aboriginal people were brilliant and successful hunter gatherers and fishers with many complex tools and practices. They were not farmers.
Dr Ian Keen




Back to top
 

I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 24 25 26 27 28 ... 31
Send Topic Print