Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Poll closed Poll
Question: Was there a chance that Indigenous Australians practiced agriculture?
*** This poll has now closed ***


Yes    
  8 (53.3%)
No    
  7 (46.7%)




Total votes: 15
« Created by: Brian Ross on: Apr 29th, 2021 at 2:26pm »

Pages: 1 ... 25 26 27 28 29 ... 31
Send Topic Print
A real history of Aboriginal Australians (Read 23394 times)
Grappler Deep State Feller
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 85493
Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #390 - May 16th, 2021 at 10:48pm
 
http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/writing/home.html

"The ancient Egyptians believed that it was important to record and communicate information about religion and government. Thus, they invented written scripts that could be used to record this information"

Come back again - I'm just crazy 'bout your rave....


Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Deep State Feller
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 85493
Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #391 - May 16th, 2021 at 10:53pm
 
Note that none of these 'invented' written records - since the system was not spread around the globe but was kept pretty much 'in-house' so doesn't fit the bill, and there is no way of ascertaining who actually started it off.... could've been an Eskimo carving a walrus tusk to send to his girl ....

What a stupid argument....


https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/32baf96756f741d28897c2fe298ba79c

"Ancient Greek people wrote on many things, Historians know that they wrote on parchment (dried animal skin), papyrus (closest thing to paper) and wax tablets (usually in two's)."

https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/thousand-years-of-the-persian-book/writing-systems-...

"Persian scripts have evolved over the last 3000 years, with three major historic stages of development, all on display in this exhibition. In ancient Persia (650 BCE–330 BCE), Old Persian was inscribed in the cuneiform script, adapted from the Mesopotamian cultures of the ancient Near East. During the pre-Islamic classical period of the Parthian and Sassanid Persian Empires (248 BCE–651), the Aramaic language gained prominence in many regions of the Persian Empire, influencing the language and writing system of Pahlavi, the middle Persian language. The script used for writing Pahlavi was adapted from the ancient Aramaic script. After the Islamization of Persia, (651–present), a modified Arabic script replaced the older scripts. "
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Valkie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16142
Central Coast
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #392 - May 17th, 2021 at 7:53am
 
Quote:
  Where are the facts?
ANDREW BOLT


New exhibition playing with the truth and teaching our kids to despise their country

THE Australian Museum claims it’s putting on the most important show in its 194-year history. And it’s right: this proves that truth is now officially dead. That is a huge deal for a museum.

On Saturday, the Australian Museum will open Unsettled, an exhibition about the “devastation” of colonisation that it says “ illuminates the power of truth-telling”.

But truth-telling is the last thing to now expect in a museum we funded for generations to promote it. For one, this exhibition treats as true the “stolen generations” – the myth that “generations” of children were stolen from caring parents just because they were Aboriginal.

I’ve challenged activists for two decades to name even just 10 such children. Prove they were taken because they were Aboriginal, not because they were neglected, abandoned, abused or sent away to school. But worse is this museum’s fact-lite promotion of atrocity claims.

Its exhibition includes a huge map of Australia claiming to show where whites massacred Aborigines. We are asked to believe that in 1921 almost two-thirds of Australia was a massacre site.

Next to the map is a photograph of Poisoned Waterholes Creek, near Narrandera, which — as a Sydney Morning Herald preview of the exhibition lazily repeated — was “where Aboriginal people were slaughtered” by “white settlers … around 1820”.

No real museum would present such an inflammatory rumour as an unchallenged fact. Blame the creek’s name for firing the imaginations of activists looking for any hint — as one wrote on news.com.au — that “like [Nazi] Germany, Australia has similarly massacred its own citizens”.

ABC journalist Stan Grant, who identifies as a member of the Wiradjuri tribe, wrote in 2015 that “the local homestead owner grew tired” of the Wiradjuri resting at Poisoned Waterholes Creek and poisoned their waterhole. Many “died agonising deaths”.

But wait: how would a farmer in 1821 get so much poison?

In fact, Peter Reed, the academic who invented the deceptive “stolen generations” label, talked in 1980 to Mary Lyons, an 83-yearold Aborigine from Narrandera who claimed the Aborigines actually died from poisoned flour.

But is even that true?

In 1941, the local Nerandera (sic) Argus complained of a “general belief” that early settlers had “resorted to poisoning the waterholes” around the 1840s but said early settlers it spoke to had no memory of any such killings, and the creek most likely got its name from poison bait left for dingoes.

In 1951, a George Gow wrote to the Argus to say he’d lived in the area for 57 years and had known people born there 100 years before, but none, he said, thought the poisoning story true. An Aboriginal storyteller he’d known more than 50 years earlier never mentioned it either.

Gow said John Bean, a rabbit inspector who’d worked on the station containing Poisoned Waterholes Creek in the 1880s, told him the name indeed came from dingo baits, although an old drover once said he’d lost cattle there to toxic weed.

Gow blamed Dame Mary Gilmore, a poet and writer for the Communist Party’s newspaper, for spreading the poisoning myth in the Sydney Morning Herald, claiming that a magistrate had investigated and “ordered that the holes be filled in up to a height of 12 feet above the surface”.

Gilmore said her uncle did that filling in, but, as Gow noted, the holes are still there. Gilmore’s claims were “rubbish”.

And see how Gilmore’s story has changed in the retelling. This happened seemingly around the second half of the 1800s. No, the 1840s. No, the 1820s.

And the water was poisoned, No, the flour. No, water.

No names given. No witnesses.


But who cares about facts at the Australian Museum, which even promotes Bruce Pascoe as “an Aboriginal writer”, and his book Dark Emu as an “excellent” history, when genealogical records show all Pascoe’s ancestors are of English descent, and when his claim that Aborigines were actually “farmers” living in “houses” in “towns” of “1000 people” is an obvious fantasy based on invented or misrepresented sources.

Don’t be surprised that even a museum now treats myths as true in the pursuit of race politics. After all, its director is the first in its long history who isn’t a scientist, but a public relations expert. She’s also been celebrated as the museum’s first female boss. So how natural that the museum now junks science to play instead in the identity politics that is so very marketable?


Never mind that it teaches children to despise their country. Only racists now care about facts, right?
Back to top
 

I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
IP Logged
 
Mr Hammer
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 25212
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #393 - May 17th, 2021 at 8:29am
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 16th, 2021 at 3:32pm:
BigP wrote on May 16th, 2021 at 3:02pm:
Bertie wrote on May 16th, 2021 at 1:17pm:
MkBrian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:46pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 5:06pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:57am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:10am:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 2:59am:
There is no history of Aboriginal Australians... just a lot of folk memory....

....not that there's anything wrong with that...or once the Chinese take over and free the Kaffir - not that there's anything Wong with that........


There was no history of ancient Egypt or ancient Greece or any society without writing like Medieval Europe.  Just an awful lot of "folk memory".  Verbal history has long been recognised as the storehouse of history for a society.  Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Egyptian, greek and other ancient histories are not based on oral story telling. They did have very extensive written records.
History writing did not start in medieval Europe.



Want a bet?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Go on.

Let's see what twist you have.


So, what are you betting?  You've dismally failed to prove I have said what I have not.  How about a bottle of cheap red wine?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

What did you not say that I claimed you had?

I bet you will never clarify it.



Jesus Aggy you're lookin a little grumpy girl 


That might because "Agatha" is in reality Soren, a Danish immigrant who suffers badly from Xenophobia.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


I'll remember this the next time you wet your panties because of personal criticism.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Deep State Feller
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 85493
Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #394 - May 17th, 2021 at 8:44am
 
"After all, its director is the first in its long history who isn’t a scientist, but a public relations expert. She’s also been celebrated as the museum’s first female boss."

That says it all.........
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 42629
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #395 - May 18th, 2021 at 11:08pm
 

...

Dear, oh, dear, still no effort by the Racists to actually refute what Pascoe has said.  They just prefer to engage in argumentum ad hominem debate. They just believe personal insults will replace reasoned debate.  It worked for them for generations so why would they stop now?  Tsk, tsk, still nothing that argues against Pascoe's quoting of the journals of the early explorers/settlers where they describe encountering fields of native foods.  Even when Valkie admits that he doesn't understand the argument, he still argues.  Typical Racist behaviour it seems, all passion, no sense.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Grappler Deep State Feller
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 85493
Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #396 - May 19th, 2021 at 6:34am
 
Isn't this Pascoist Neo-revisionism dead and buried yet?

Got more legs than a horde of centipedes .......
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Bertie
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 785
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #397 - May 19th, 2021 at 12:07pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:46pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 5:06pm:
Bertie wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:57am:
Brian Ross wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 11:10am:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on May 14th, 2021 at 2:59am:
There is no history of Aboriginal Australians... just a lot of folk memory....

....not that there's anything wrong with that...or once the Chinese take over and free the Kaffir - not that there's anything Wong with that........


There was no history of ancient Egypt or ancient Greece or any society without writing like Medieval Europe.  Just an awful lot of "folk memory".  Verbal history has long been recognised as the storehouse of history for a society.  Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Egyptian, greek and other ancient histories are not based on oral story telling. They did have very extensive written records.
History writing did not start in medieval Europe.



Want a bet?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Go on.

Let's see what twist you have.


So, what are you betting?  You've dismally failed to prove I have said what I have not.  How about a bottle of cheap red wine?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

What did you not say that I claimed you had?

I bet you will never clarify it.


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Valkie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16142
Central Coast
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #398 - May 19th, 2021 at 7:35pm
 
Because bwyannnnnnn obviously didnt read the post.

HGere it is again,

OK;

After considerable reading of subject matter from several Qualified and Accredited academics.
There is nothing at all to back up Pascoes lies about Farming or cities of aboriginals pre-colonization.

Dr Christopher Lloyd , Emeritus Professor of Economic History in School of Business, University of New England, Armidale
Quote:


Australian Aborigines were foragers or hunter/gatherers before European colonisation.
Neither agriculture in the sense of settled communities of cultivators nor pastoralism in the sense of settled or nomadic groups with domestic animals existed in Australia.

There were areas of partially sedentary material culture where food sources were abundant, such as some river valleys and coastlines. There were, however, no permanent dwellings, no real villages and very few possessions.
Nomadic foraging was by far the dominant socioeconomic system.
As with foragers elsewhere, however, here there was a wide variety of activity, dependent to a large degree on the environment in which people lived.

Aboriginal people did a great deal to mould the landscape to their needs by, for example, firestick farming to improve grasslands for grazing animals, building fish traps in shallow riverbeds and coastal zones or building canoes for hunting marine mammals and fish. There was much local specialisation in food production depending on natural conditions, and the manufacture of tools was a matter of local specialisation—again, depending on resources.
Trade of tools and special materials with neighbouring peoples and over long distances across many language boundaries has been well studied (see Butlin 1993; Keen 2004). It seems clear that there was a continent-wide system of cultural diffusion and trading networks.   



Furthemore;
Dr Ian Keen is Honorary Associate Professor, School of Archaeology and Anthropology, College Arts & Social Sciences at the Australia National University in Canberra. His distinguished academic career spans more than forty years.

Historian Professor Geoffrey Blainey

Academic, who specialised in covering research in history, anthropology and botany, Bill Gammage, in his 2011 book, The Biggest Estate on Earth.

Rhys Jones (archaeologist)

All of the above have stated professionally that Australian Aboriginals were not and have never been true farmers.
They use the term "Firestick" farming (setting fire to control growth).
Which was probably misinterpreted by the semi-literate lazy researcher Pascoe as farming in an agricultural term.

All state that Aborigines never lived in cities or even villages, but may have lived in collectives where food sources were plentyful.
And that housing structures did not nor ever have existed.

The "fish traps" so revered in myth and lore were the result of natural phenomenon and some opportunistic placement of rocks to make traps.
Not unheard of in primitive people and certainly not indicative of an established farming and coordinated enterprise.

Again;
Quote:

Australian Aborigines were foragers or hunter/gatherers before European colonisation.
Neither agriculture in the sense of settled communities of cultivators nor pastoralism in the sense of settled or nomadic groups with domestic animals existed in Australia.   


My conclusion, which will be refuted by Pascoe's worshipers, is that Australian Aborigines were nothing more than Primitive hunter gatherers.
Sure, some took advantage of some natural elements and< as they do, Loved setting fires.


But there is not one shred of true evidence that agriculture, aquaculture or building is/or has been found to date.


Finally;
Quote:
To amateurs like us, all this controversy over how to define the economies of pre-colonial Aboriginal societies just sounds like semantics.
Aboriginal people were quite happy with their lives as very skilled and successful hunter gatherers.
If 250 years later, politically motivated academics and activists want to engage in world play by calling Aboriginal people farmers, living in settled stone villages of 1000 people, so be it.
It won’t make any difference to the Aboriginal Sovereignty argument - When the British colonised New South Wales in 1788 they legally ‘settled’ here amongst nomadic, native hunter gatherers. It was not a  ‘conquest’ or ‘cession’ of settled farmers who had a recognisable social government, as understood by the legal definitions of the time, so no Treaty was required.


Academics can write as many papers as they like with ‘Farming’ in the title such as, ‘Food-getting, Domestication and Farming in Pre-colonial Australia’ and then have to admit that, ‘This paper argues that Australian Aboriginal economies do conform to the “complex” hunter gatherer archetype’. (ibid. p116). Which is what all us amateurs already know -
Aboriginal people were brilliant and successful hunter gatherers and fishers with many complex tools and practices. They were not farmers.
Dr Ian Keen
Back to top
 

I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 42629
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #399 - May 20th, 2021 at 12:45am
 

...

Dear, oh, dear, still no effort by the Racists to actually refute what Pascoe has said.  They just prefer to engage in argumentum ad hominem debate. They just believe personal insults will replace reasoned debate.  It worked for them for generations so why would they stop now?  Tsk, tsk, still nothing that argues against Pascoe's quoting of the journals of the early explorers/settlers where they describe encountering fields of native foods.  Even when Valkie admits that he doesn't understand the argument, he still argues.  Typical Racist behaviour it seems, all passion, no sense.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Valkie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16142
Central Coast
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #400 - May 20th, 2021 at 7:54am
 
You bwyannnnnnnn are a lying coward with the intelligence of a gnat.

I have proven pascoes lies clearly and with the evidence of true archaeologists and scholars.

You have an untrained, unqualified plagiarist pascoe.

But there is not one shred of true evidence that agriculture, aquaculture or building is/or has been found to date.

You lose, you sir are beyond stupid.
Back to top
 

I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Deep State Feller
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 85493
Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #401 - May 20th, 2021 at 11:09am
 
Methinks the Pascoe doth protest too much... that Tibetan Loco Weed can do that to you.
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Mr Hammer
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 25212
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #402 - May 20th, 2021 at 11:10am
 
Bwian's a classic example of a gaslighter. He yawns and tsk tsks and refuses to acknowledge a. counter...then plays the innocent victim when people get frustrated with him. Don't waste your life debating Bwian.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bertie
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 785
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #403 - May 20th, 2021 at 11:37am
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 20th, 2021 at 12:45am:
https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/google/223...

Dear, oh, dear, still no effort by the Racists to actually refute what Pascoe has said.  They just prefer to engage in argumentum ad hominem debate. They just believe personal insults will replace reasoned debate.  It worked for them for generations so why would they stop now?  Tsk, tsk, still nothing that argues against Pascoe's quoting of the journals of the early explorers/settlers where they describe encountering fields of native foods.  Even when Valkie admits that he doesn't understand the argument, he still argues.  Typical Racist behaviour it seems, all passion, no sense.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes





Example #543 of Brian's idea of 'reasoned debate'.

Your pants are on fire, Brian.



Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Valkie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16142
Central Coast
Gender: male
Re: A real history of Aboriginal Australians
Reply #404 - May 20th, 2021 at 4:39pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on May 20th, 2021 at 11:10am:
Bwian's a classic example of a gaslighter. He yawns and tsk tsks and refuses to acknowledge a. counter...then plays the innocent victim when people get frustrated with him. Don't waste your life debating Bwian.


I proved, beyond a doubt, using fully qualified and experienced archaeologists statements.

That Agriculture as described by pasco the liar ......NEVER HAS EXISTED

That cities and buildings as described by pascoe the liar.....NEVER HAS EXISTED

This is fact.

But bwyannnnnnnn prefers to defer to an UNQUALIFIED, LYING , SELF SERVING WANNABE.

I guess it makes sense thinking about it.

Pascoe and bwyannnnnnn have so much in common in that area.

Back to top
 

I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 25 26 27 28 29 ... 31
Send Topic Print