Australian Politics Forum - Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data

The_Barnacle Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6205 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data Reply #30 - May 30^th, 2021 at 1:34pm Here's another Ajax special relying on a graph that measures the RATE of change and comparing it to a graph that measures ACTUAL change. Any high school student knows that theses graphs can't be compared https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1622340966
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lee

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Re: Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data
Reply #31 - May 30^th, 2021 at 2:34pm

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2021 at 1:09pm:

You cannot directly measure air temperature with a satellite. You and Lee have posted temperature "measurements" from two different groups that are based on the same set of satellite data, but which give very different sets of measurements. As far as I can tell, no-one else bothers trying to measure atmospheric temperature with satellites.

Only NASA? The climate morons? Grin

"These sea surface temperature maps are based on observations by the Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS) on NASA’s Aqua satellite. The satellite measures the temperature of the top millimeter of the ocean surface. "

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/global-maps/MYD28M

"Satellites were used to develop an 18-year record (1981-1998) of global land surface temperatures. The data showed that the Earth's snow-free land surfaces, on average, warmed during the period. The findings are in a NASA study published in a recent issue of the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society."

https://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/environment/Earth_Temperature.html

You do understand global temperatures are a combination of land and SST's?

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lee

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Re: Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data
Reply #32 - May 30^th, 2021 at 2:42pm

The_Barnacle wrote on May 30^th, 2021 at 1:34pm:

Here's another Ajax special relying on a graph that measures the RATE of change and comparing it to a graph that measures ACTUAL change.
Any high school student knows that theses graphs can't be compared

They are both in anomalies petal. Any school student would know you can compare anomalies.

"Global temperature data are reported as anomalies, the measure of the amount of departure from a reference value or long-term average."

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/edu/teach/activity/graphing-global-temperature-trends/

Grin

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freediver

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Re: Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data
Reply #33 - May 30^th, 2021 at 2:42pm

lee wrote on May 30^th, 2021 at 2:34pm:

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2021 at 1:09pm:

You cannot directly measure air temperature with a satellite. You and Lee have posted temperature "measurements" from two different groups that are based on the same set of satellite data, but which give very different sets of measurements. As far as I can tell, no-one else bothers trying to measure atmospheric temperature with satellites.

Only NASA? The climate morons? Grin

"These sea surface temperature maps are based on observations by the Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS) on NASA’s Aqua satellite. The satellite measures the temperature of the top millimeter of the ocean surface. "

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/global-maps/MYD28M

"Satellites were used to develop an 18-year record (1981-1998) of global land surface temperatures. The data showed that the Earth's snow-free land surfaces, on average, warmed during the period. The findings are in a NASA study published in a recent issue of the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society."

https://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/environment/Earth_Temperature.html

You do understand global temperatures are a combination of land and SST's?

Do you understand the difference between atmospheric temperature and land temperature, or ocean temperature?

Why do you think your plot ends in 2014? Hint: it is not just because that is when it was presented.

As a typical climate skeptic, would you describe it as

a) clever
b) idiotic

to compare predicted global surface temperature with measured tropical troposphere temperatures?

Do you know how satellites measure atmospheric temperature?

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lee

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Re: Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data
Reply #34 - May 30^th, 2021 at 2:51pm

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2021 at 2:42pm:

Do you understand the difference between atmospheric temperature and land temperature, or ocean temperature?

Yes petal. That's why they use satellites. They give almost global coverage. You do understand "land temperature" is actually air (atmospheric) temperature - taken ABOVE ground? Grin

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2021 at 2:42pm:

Why do you think your plot ends in 2014? Hint: it is not just because that is when it was presented.

Perhaps you have a reason please feel free to show you erudition. BTW - I did post an updated graph. Same problem. Wink

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2021 at 2:42pm:

As a typical climate skeptic, would you describe it as

a) clever
b) idiotic

to compare predicted global surface temperature with measured tropical troposphere temperatures?

You tell the climate morons at NASA all about it petal. Grin

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2021 at 2:42pm:

Do you know how satellites measure atmospheric temperature?

yes petal the same way they measure Sea Surface Temperature (SST). Wink

They use MSU/AMSU's.

"MSU / AMSU

Satellite measurements of the Earth’s microwave emissions are a crucial element in the development of an accurate system for long-term monitoring of atmospheric temperature. Satellites provide global coverage at much higher densities than attainable with in situ observations. In situ observations also suffer from non-uniform temporal coverage and undocumented changes in the instrumentation used that can lead to local biases and increased uncertainty.
Microwave Temperature Sounding

Satellites can measure the temperature of the atmosphere by evaluating thermal emission from gases in the atmosphere. Molecular Oxygen has a complex of relatively strong absorption lines near 60 GHz. By choosing the different measurement frequencies, and thus different values of absorptivity, the emission from different layers of the atmosphere can be measured. RSS studies the measurements made by 3 series of satellite-borne microwave sounders in order to construct long-term, climate-quality atmospheric temperature datasets for use by the scientific community. "

http://www.remss.com/missions/amsu/

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Laugh till you cry Gold Member Offline Posts: 15883 In your happy place Gender:	Re: Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data Reply #35 - May 30^th, 2021 at 2:55pm Proof of global warming: Denizen Lee has been perpetually hot under the collar since the debate started.
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freediver

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Re: Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data
Reply #36 - May 30^th, 2021 at 3:47pm

Quote:

Yes petal. That's why they use satellites. They give almost global coverage. You do understand "land temperature" is actually air (atmospheric) temperature - taken ABOVE ground?

You are so full of crap Lee. From your own link:

Quote:

Unlike scattered ground-based weather observing stations that measure the temperature two to three meters above land, satellites measure ground surface temperature, or skin temperature

As a typical climate skeptic, would you describe it as

a) clever
b) idiotic

to compare predicted global surface temperature with measured tropical troposphere temperatures?

Do you know how satellites measure atmospheric temperature?

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lee

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Re: Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data
Reply #37 - May 30^th, 2021 at 5:05pm

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2021 at 3:47pm:

You are so full of crap Lee. From your own link:

Quote:
Unlike scattered ground-based weather observing stations that measure the temperature two to three meters above land, satellites measure ground surface temperature, or skin temperature

That sentence does not appear in the reference of amsu's.

Oh I found it. You mean NASA doesn't understand how MSU/AMSU's work. Grin

You don't understand MSU/AMSU's do you?

"Microwave Sounding Unit (MSU)"

"These four channels measured the atmospheric temperature in four thick layers spanning the surface through the stratosphere. The were 9 MSUs in total. "

"Advanced Microwave Sounding Unit (AMSU)"

"Of the 15 channels, 11 (Channels 4 through 14) are located in the 60 GHz absorption complex and thus are most closely related to atmospheric temepratures at various heights above the surface. The increased number of channels relative to MSU means that AMSU-A samples the temperature of the atmosphere in a larger number of layers. The AMSU measurement footprints are also smaller than those for MSU, leading to higher spatial resolution. 3 AMSU channels (Channels 5,7,and 9) are closely matched to MSU channels 2,3 and 4. By using these channels,we have extended our climate-quality dataset to the present."

http://www.remss.com/missions/amsu/

I thiught I better repeat the reference as you seemed to have lost it. Wink

BTW - I see you haven't backed up your assertion of a hint. Why is that? It doesn't exist? oh noes. Grin

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« Last Edit: May 30^th, 2021 at 5:12pm by lee »

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freediver

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Re: Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data
Reply #38 - May 30^th, 2021 at 6:14pm

The quote about land surface temperatures is from the link you provided about land surface temperatures Lee.

https://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/environment/Earth_Temperature.html

At least try to keep up with yourself.

As a typical climate skeptic, would you describe it as

a) clever
b) idiotic

to compare predicted global surface temperature with measured tropical troposphere temperatures?

Do you know how satellites measure atmospheric temperature?

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lee

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Re: Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data
Reply #39 - May 30^th, 2021 at 6:42pm

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2021 at 6:14pm:

The quote about land surface temperatures is from the link you provided about land surface temperatures Lee.

Yes petal. Now tell us why NASA doesn't understand MSU/AMSU's. Grin

I gave you the satellite reference to compare.

Here is NOAA with UAH data -

"This dataset includes monthly gridded temperature anomalies on a global 2.5 x 2.5 degree grid derived from Microwave Sounding Unit (MSU) and Advanced Microwave Sounding Unit (AMSU) radiance data since December 1978. In addition, there are monthly regional anomalies and monthly mean annual cycle temperatures. All products are derived for four bulk layers of the atmosphere: the Lower Troposphere (TLT), Mid-Troposphere (TMT), Tropopause (TTP) and Lower Stratosphere (TLS). Version 6.0 is the latest UAH version archived at NOAA and is updated monthly."

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/metadata/landing-page/bin/iso?id=gov.noaa.ncdc:...

So tell us about the hint petal. Can't find it? You have gone very quiet on it. Grin

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lee

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Re: Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data
Reply #40 - May 30^th, 2021 at 8:09pm

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2021 at 6:14pm:

The quote about land surface temperatures is from the link you provided about land surface temperatures Lee.

BTW - If that were true petal then the surface temperature should be warmer than the 2m air temperature; due to the adiabatic lapse rate which gets colder as elevation climbs. But the satellite temperatures are lower than the air temperatures. Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data
Reply #41 - May 30^th, 2021 at 8:56pm

What do you mean "if that were true"? Are you not capable of reading your own link? Can you not figure it out for yourself? Do you still think land temperature means air temperature?

As a typical climate skeptic, would you describe it as

a) clever
b) idiotic

to compare predicted global surface temperature with measured tropical troposphere temperatures?

Do you know how satellites measure atmospheric temperature?

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lee

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Re: Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data
Reply #42 - May 30^th, 2021 at 9:43pm

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2021 at 8:56pm:

What do you mean "if that were true"? Are you not capable of reading your own link?

Ok So now you say that the earth's satellite temperature is warmer than global earthbound temperature; despite rhe satellite data showing that is not so. You can't have it both ways petal. Grin

freediver wrote on May 30^th, 2021 at 8:56pm:

Do you still think land temperature means air temperature?

For all intents and purposes yes petal. The dry lapse rate is 9.8C/km. So at 2m it is 9.8*2/1000 or 0.0196C. Huge eh? Grin

The moist air lapse rate is typically 5C/km or 0.01C at 2M. (it depends on how moist the air is)

That 0.01C is finer than the thermometers used. "The thermometer is read to the nearest 0.1 degree Celsius."

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/cdo/about/airtemp-measure.shtml

For an earthbound station set at 2M. You really are too funny. Grin

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freediver

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Re: Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data
Reply #43 - May 31^st, 2021 at 5:40pm

Quote:

Ok So now you say that the earth's satellite temperature is warmer than global earthbound temperature

Still struggling with reading comprehension I see. Do you need me to explain how to read someone's post?

Quote:

For all intents and purposes yes petal.

As a typical climate skeptic, would you describe it as

a) clever
b) idiotic

to compare predicted global surface temperature with measured tropical troposphere temperatures, or ocean temperatures, or land temperatures?

Do you know how satellites measure atmospheric temperature?

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lee

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Re: Climate “skeptics” lie: measured temperature data
Reply #44 - May 31^st, 2021 at 8:32pm

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2021 at 5:40pm:

Quote:
Ok So now you say that the earth's satellite temperature is warmer than global earthbound temperature

Still struggling with reading comprehension I see. Do you need me to explain how to read someone's post?

You were the one saying that the satellites were reading skin temperature whilst earth stations measure at 2M. So because of adbiatic lapse rate it gets cooler at higher elevations. That should make the satellite temperatures warmer than the ground station data. So you must be saying that the satellite temperatures are warmer, although that is not the case. Are you three legged? You keep getting tangled and falling down. Wink

freediver wrote on May 31^st, 2021 at 5:40pm:

Quote:
For all intents and purposes yes petal.

Well it was you who said the readings were from 18km up. But you found you were wrong when you wanted to debunk and came up with skin temperature. I also posted about the adibiatic lapse rate on 18May, but it went right over your head. And nothing you have posted has addressed it at all.

You are such a failure. You just don't want to learn. As I said it doesn't have to be from me; but learn. Roll Eyes

So tell us about this hint about satellite temperatures in 2014 that you were promoting. Got lost in translation? Grin

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