Australian Politics Forum - Afghanistan

freediver

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Re: Afghanistan - Cowardistan
Reply #15 - Jul 9^th, 2021 at 7:07pm

tickleandrose wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 6:47pm:

Re Agatha.

The thing is that we cant really quantify Afghanistan as a country. It has not really being a country forever. Rather it is a very rural and remote collections of clans and warlords who views each other with suspicion over many centuries. As history have it, many tried to rule over the area, but none were particularly successful. And this is the way even before Islam arrives there.

The Taliban is backed by the the largest clan / group in that region, the Pushtans. So you can see, any government without its support, particularly one propped by an invader, will never going to last.

We went in to Afghanistan for an act of vengeance. We were not there for the people, not for the women, not for the children, certainly not for freedom. We had no clear defined goal.

This is an expected result.

The goal was very clearly defined - establish a functioning government and get out.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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issuevoter

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Re: Afghanistan - Cowardistan
Reply #16 - Jul 9^th, 2021 at 10:36pm

athos wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 5:18pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 2:49pm:

Its not about Democracy, its not about Terrorism and its not about race, its about religion. Its all very well to call the Afghans cowards when the presence of the best militaries in the world could not protect their schools and hospitals from glassy-eyed religious fanatics that believe Allah has sent them to kill or maim those who don't agree with their interpretation of the Koran. The real problem is the contagion that has infected all of Islam. The West's failure will always be associated with our conferral of equal status on sneaky civilian-dressed assassins and honorable troops who stand up in uniform. The war against the Taliban was a success while the US supplied air support to the Northern Alliance, because as Afghans, the NA know how to fight an Afghan enemy, and it is not according to The Geneva Conventions. The failure can be attributed to GW Bush's desire to look good with American troops on the ground. He needed something, because 911 was his watch.

What a pathetic nonsense of a brainwashed liberal globalist fanatic.
It has nothing to do with religion. It is a clash of civilizations on a cultural, not a religious basis.
Western anti-civilization, in which arrogance is considered a virtue, wants to conquer others, because it believes that "the West is the best."
What are Australian ships currently doing in the Black Sea on Russian borders?
You maybe want to be a British collateral damage again, as in Gallipoli.

Instead of venting your spleen, point out the error.

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No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.

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Yadda

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Re: Afghanistan - Cowardistan
Reply #17 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 12:01am

freediver wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 6:34pm:

athos wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 5:18pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 2:49pm:

Its not about Democracy, its not about Terrorism and its not about race, its about religion. Its all very well to call the Afghans cowards when the presence of the best militaries in the world could not protect their schools and hospitals from glassy-eyed religious fanatics that believe Allah has sent them to kill or maim those who don't agree with their interpretation of the Koran. The real problem is the contagion that has infected all of Islam. The West's failure will always be associated with our conferral of equal status on sneaky civilian-dressed assassins and honorable troops who stand up in uniform. The war against the Taliban was a success while the US supplied air support to the Northern Alliance, because as Afghans, the NA know how to fight an Afghan enemy, and it is not according to The Geneva Conventions. The failure can be attributed to GW Bush's desire to look good with American troops on the ground. He needed something, because 911 was his watch.

What a pathetic nonsense of a brainwashed liberal globalist fanatic.
It has nothing to do with religion. It is a clash of civilizations on a cultural, not a religious basis.
Western anti-civilization, in which arrogance is considered a virtue, wants to conquer others, because it believes that "the West is the best."
What are Australian ships currently doing in the Black Sea on Russian borders?
You maybe want to be a British collateral damage again, as in Gallipoli.

Everyone agrees that democracy is best.

Except Muslims.

Because of Islam.

Everyone agrees that democracy is best.

Everyone will agree that, where it is present among men, the display of true human virtue 'is the best' thing.

Don't we all wish, that we could 'properly' aspire to human virtue ?

Every individual, politician, or common citizen, is happy to praise [acknowledged] human virtue, where it is recognised.

Human virtue is so, so popular these days [in this age], that human virtue can be commonly seen to be faked and/or 'manufactured'.

'Virtue Signalling'.

But surely, if 'human virtue' merely becomes 'performance art' [i.e. for the benefit of an audience],
it loses all 'currency'.

It remains wholly elusive.

Is true human virtue, really actually divine, in its nature ?

True, love ?

.

Proverbs 14:34
Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.

"Glory follows virtue as if it were its shadow."
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, Roman Statesman

Yadda said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1623208762/13#13

"Political corruption is the most infallible symptom of constitutional liberty."
- Edward Gibbon

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.
It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
- John Adams, one of the founders of the American Republic

Liberty has never come from Government.
Liberty has always come from the subjects of it.
The history of Liberty is a history of resistance.
The history of Liberty is a history of limitations of Governmental power, NOT the increase of it.
- Woodrow Wilson

"Remember, democracy never lasts long.
It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself.
There was never a democracy yet that didn't commit suicide."
- John Adams - USA President, 1797-1801

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
- Frederic Bastiat

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« Last Edit: Jul 10^th, 2021 at 12:32am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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athos

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Re: Afghanistan - Cowardistan
Reply #18 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 1:13pm

issuevoter wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 10:36pm:

athos wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 5:18pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 2:49pm:

Its not about Democracy, its not about Terrorism and its not about race, its about religion. Its all very well to call the Afghans cowards when the presence of the best militaries in the world could not protect their schools and hospitals from glassy-eyed religious fanatics that believe Allah has sent them to kill or maim those who don't agree with their interpretation of the Koran. The real problem is the contagion that has infected all of Islam. The West's failure will always be associated with our conferral of equal status on sneaky civilian-dressed assassins and honorable troops who stand up in uniform. The war against the Taliban was a success while the US supplied air support to the Northern Alliance, because as Afghans, the NA know how to fight an Afghan enemy, and it is not according to The Geneva Conventions. The failure can be attributed to GW Bush's desire to look good with American troops on the ground. He needed something, because 911 was his watch.

What a pathetic nonsense of a brainwashed liberal globalist fanatic.
It has nothing to do with religion. It is a clash of civilizations on a cultural, not a religious basis.
Western anti-civilization, in which arrogance is considered a virtue, wants to conquer others, because it believes that "the West is the best."
What are Australian ships currently doing in the Black Sea on Russian borders?
You maybe want to be a British collateral damage again, as in Gallipoli.

Instead of venting your spleen, point out the error.

Your unlimited arrogance will not save you from your self-destruction on a personal and global level.
The beginning of someone's end is when his self-confidence becomes his arrogance.

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Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Afghanistan - Cowardistan
Reply #19 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 1:20pm

athos wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 1:13pm:

Your unlimited arrogance will not save you from your self-destruction on a personal and global level.
The beginning of someone's end is when his self-confidence becomes his arrogance.

A message to Xi Jinping?

It's the fortune cookie psychology that seems to have been a feature of the regime since Mao... The 4 this, the 3 that... wrapped in plaster of paris and painted like a biscuit.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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issuevoter

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Re: Afghanistan - Cowardistan
Reply #20 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 10:16pm

athos wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 1:13pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 10:36pm:

athos wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 5:18pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 2:49pm:

Its not about Democracy, its not about Terrorism and its not about race, its about religion. Its all very well to call the Afghans cowards when the presence of the best militaries in the world could not protect their schools and hospitals from glassy-eyed religious fanatics that believe Allah has sent them to kill or maim those who don't agree with their interpretation of the Koran. The real problem is the contagion that has infected all of Islam. The West's failure will always be associated with our conferral of equal status on sneaky civilian-dressed assassins and honorable troops who stand up in uniform. The war against the Taliban was a success while the US supplied air support to the Northern Alliance, because as Afghans, the NA know how to fight an Afghan enemy, and it is not according to The Geneva Conventions. The failure can be attributed to GW Bush's desire to look good with American troops on the ground. He needed something, because 911 was his watch.

What a pathetic nonsense of a brainwashed liberal globalist fanatic.
It has nothing to do with religion. It is a clash of civilizations on a cultural, not a religious basis.
Western anti-civilization, in which arrogance is considered a virtue, wants to conquer others, because it believes that "the West is the best."
What are Australian ships currently doing in the Black Sea on Russian borders?
You maybe want to be a British collateral damage again, as in Gallipoli.

Instead of venting your spleen, point out the error.

Your unlimited arrogance will not save you from your self-destruction on a personal and global level.
The beginning of someone's end is when his self-confidence becomes his arrogance.

You are not addressing the subject. You are venting again. This is typical of your posts and your hatred of Western values, which is hypocritical, because you mimick us in your hairstyles, clothes, and aspiration to a post industrial social order. You and your culture envy the West, and that eats you up inside.

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No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.

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tickleandrose

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Re: Afghanistan - Cowardistan
Reply #21 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 7:57am

freediver wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 7:07pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 6:47pm:

Re Agatha.

The thing is that we cant really quantify Afghanistan as a country. It has not really being a country forever. Rather it is a very rural and remote collections of clans and warlords who views each other with suspicion over many centuries. As history have it, many tried to rule over the area, but none were particularly successful. And this is the way even before Islam arrives there.

The Taliban is backed by the the largest clan / group in that region, the Pushtans. So you can see, any government without its support, particularly one propped by an invader, will never going to last.

We went in to Afghanistan for an act of vengeance. We were not there for the people, not for the women, not for the children, certainly not for freedom. We had no clear defined goal.

This is an expected result.

The goal was very clearly defined - establish a functioning government and get out.

That is not a defined goal. You can say that the aim was to remove Taliban, install alternate government and then get out. This is the definition of a war. Not goals. Just from top of my humble mind, assuming the goals would be something along this line:
1. To have well defined goals means that you need to quantify at what level the Taliban must be destroyed to ensure no insurrection.
2. How to give a voice to the largest clan / ethnic group in the area without the Taliban representation.
3. There have to be some sort of power sharing structure.
4. At what security level does the country consider to be self sufficient and safe.

Right now, in all parameters, nation building have failed because we failed to understand Afghanistan. And Taliban is retaking large tracts of lands just as expected. The peace deal is all but buried, and retribution to the people would be brutal and swift especially for those who helped the Coalition.

The coming winter will be especially cold in the desert, many bones will once again be buried under the sands of time.

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freediver

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Posts: 49329
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Re: Afghanistan - Cowardistan
Reply #22 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 8:18am

tickleandrose wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 7:57am:

freediver wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 7:07pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 6:47pm:

Re Agatha.

The thing is that we cant really quantify Afghanistan as a country. It has not really being a country forever. Rather it is a very rural and remote collections of clans and warlords who views each other with suspicion over many centuries. As history have it, many tried to rule over the area, but none were particularly successful. And this is the way even before Islam arrives there.

The Taliban is backed by the the largest clan / group in that region, the Pushtans. So you can see, any government without its support, particularly one propped by an invader, will never going to last.

We went in to Afghanistan for an act of vengeance. We were not there for the people, not for the women, not for the children, certainly not for freedom. We had no clear defined goal.

This is an expected result.

The goal was very clearly defined - establish a functioning government and get out.

That is not a defined goal. You can say that the aim was to remove Taliban, install alternate government and then get out. This is the definition of a war. Not goals. Just from top of my humble mind, assuming the goals would be something along this line:
1. To have well defined goals means that you need to quantify at what level the Taliban must be destroyed to ensure no insurrection.
2. How to give a voice to the largest clan / ethnic group in the area without the Taliban representation.
3. There have to be some sort of power sharing structure.
4. At what security level does the country consider to be self sufficient and safe.

Right now, in all parameters, nation building have failed because we failed to understand Afghanistan. And Taliban is retaking large tracts of lands just as expected. The peace deal is all but buried, and retribution to the people would be brutal and swift especially for those who helped the Coalition.

The coming winter will be especially cold in the desert, many bones will once again be buried under the sands of time.

You cannot quantify those things in a useful way.

Functioning government is sufficiently well defined.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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athos

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Re: Afghanistan - Cowardistan
Reply #23 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 12:34pm

issuevoter wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 10:16pm:

athos wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 1:13pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 10:36pm:

athos wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 5:18pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 2:49pm:

Its not about Democracy, its not about Terrorism and its not about race, its about religion. Its all very well to call the Afghans cowards when the presence of the best militaries in the world could not protect their schools and hospitals from glassy-eyed religious fanatics that believe Allah has sent them to kill or maim those who don't agree with their interpretation of the Koran. The real problem is the contagion that has infected all of Islam. The West's failure will always be associated with our conferral of equal status on sneaky civilian-dressed assassins and honorable troops who stand up in uniform. The war against the Taliban was a success while the US supplied air support to the Northern Alliance, because as Afghans, the NA know how to fight an Afghan enemy, and it is not according to The Geneva Conventions. The failure can be attributed to GW Bush's desire to look good with American troops on the ground. He needed something, because 911 was his watch.

What a pathetic nonsense of a brainwashed liberal globalist fanatic.
It has nothing to do with religion. It is a clash of civilizations on a cultural, not a religious basis.
Western anti-civilization, in which arrogance is considered a virtue, wants to conquer others, because it believes that "the West is the best."
What are Australian ships currently doing in the Black Sea on Russian borders?
You maybe want to be a British collateral damage again, as in Gallipoli.

Instead of venting your spleen, point out the error.

Your unlimited arrogance will not save you from your self-destruction on a personal and global level.
The beginning of someone's end is when his self-confidence becomes his arrogance.

You are not addressing the subject. You are venting again. This is typical of your posts and your hatred of Western values, which is hypocritical, because you mimick us in your hairstyles, clothes, and aspiration to a post industrial social order. You and your culture envy the West, and that eats you up inside.

There are no more "Western values", West buried them.

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« Last Edit: Jul 11^th, 2021 at 12:41pm by athos »

Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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freediver

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Posts: 49329
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Re: Afghanistan - Cowardistan
Reply #24 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 12:41pm

athos wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 12:34pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 10:16pm:

athos wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 1:13pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 10:36pm:

athos wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 5:18pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 2:49pm:

Its not about Democracy, its not about Terrorism and its not about race, its about religion. Its all very well to call the Afghans cowards when the presence of the best militaries in the world could not protect their schools and hospitals from glassy-eyed religious fanatics that believe Allah has sent them to kill or maim those who don't agree with their interpretation of the Koran. The real problem is the contagion that has infected all of Islam. The West's failure will always be associated with our conferral of equal status on sneaky civilian-dressed assassins and honorable troops who stand up in uniform. The war against the Taliban was a success while the US supplied air support to the Northern Alliance, because as Afghans, the NA know how to fight an Afghan enemy, and it is not according to The Geneva Conventions. The failure can be attributed to GW Bush's desire to look good with American troops on the ground. He needed something, because 911 was his watch.

What a pathetic nonsense of a brainwashed liberal globalist fanatic.
It has nothing to do with religion. It is a clash of civilizations on a cultural, not a religious basis.
Western anti-civilization, in which arrogance is considered a virtue, wants to conquer others, because it believes that "the West is the best."
What are Australian ships currently doing in the Black Sea on Russian borders?
You maybe want to be a British collateral damage again, as in Gallipoli.

Instead of venting your spleen, point out the error.

Your unlimited arrogance will not save you from your self-destruction on a personal and global level.
The beginning of someone's end is when his self-confidence becomes his arrogance.

You are not addressing the subject. You are venting again. This is typical of your posts and your hatred of Western values, which is hypocritical, because you mimick us in your hairstyles, clothes, and aspiration to a post industrial social order. You and your culture envy the West, and that eats you up inside.

There are no more "Western values", they are dead.

They are no longer western. They are universal.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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athos

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Re: Afghanistan - Cowardistan
Reply #25 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 12:47pm

freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 12:41pm:

athos wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 12:34pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 10:16pm:

athos wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 1:13pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 10:36pm:

athos wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 5:18pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 9^th, 2021 at 2:49pm:

Its not about Democracy, its not about Terrorism and its not about race, its about religion. Its all very well to call the Afghans cowards when the presence of the best militaries in the world could not protect their schools and hospitals from glassy-eyed religious fanatics that believe Allah has sent them to kill or maim those who don't agree with their interpretation of the Koran. The real problem is the contagion that has infected all of Islam. The West's failure will always be associated with our conferral of equal status on sneaky civilian-dressed assassins and honorable troops who stand up in uniform. The war against the Taliban was a success while the US supplied air support to the Northern Alliance, because as Afghans, the NA know how to fight an Afghan enemy, and it is not according to The Geneva Conventions. The failure can be attributed to GW Bush's desire to look good with American troops on the ground. He needed something, because 911 was his watch.

What a pathetic nonsense of a brainwashed liberal globalist fanatic.
It has nothing to do with religion. It is a clash of civilizations on a cultural, not a religious basis.
Western anti-civilization, in which arrogance is considered a virtue, wants to conquer others, because it believes that "the West is the best."
What are Australian ships currently doing in the Black Sea on Russian borders?
You maybe want to be a British collateral damage again, as in Gallipoli.

Instead of venting your spleen, point out the error.

Your unlimited arrogance will not save you from your self-destruction on a personal and global level.
The beginning of someone's end is when his self-confidence becomes his arrogance.

You are not addressing the subject. You are venting again. This is typical of your posts and your hatred of Western values, which is hypocritical, because you mimick us in your hairstyles, clothes, and aspiration to a post industrial social order. You and your culture envy the West, and that eats you up inside.

There are no more "Western values", they are dead.

They are no longer western. They are universal.

That's what you've always only wished.

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Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49329 At my desk.	Re: Afghanistan - Cowardistan Reply #26 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 12:58pm Are you trying to say something athos? It's hard to tell.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Afghanistan - Cowardistan Reply #27 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 1:00pm freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 12:58pm: Are you trying to say something athos? It's hard to tell. It gets lost in the translator. In Mandarin, I believe it means he'll have the strategic pork reserve and the full font of chicken wings to go.
Back to top	Conviction is the art of being certain IP Logged

Grappler Deep State Feller

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Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male

Re: Afghanistan - Cowardistan
Reply #28 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 1:04pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 1:00pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 12:58pm:

Are you trying to say something athos? It's hard to tell.

It gets lost in the translator.

In Mandarin, I believe it means he'll have the strategic pork reserve and the full font of chicken wings to go.

Did he wash his hands after going to the toilet?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6406 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: Afghanistan - Cowardistan Reply #29 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 1:29pm freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 12:58pm: Are you trying to say something athos? It's hard to tell.
Back to top	Do we need to be always politically correct. In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act. IP Logged