Australian Politics Forum - Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’

rhino Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17179 Gender:	Re: Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’ Reply #60 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:09pm Give that man a cigar.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’
Reply #61 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:09pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:07pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:05pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:03pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:00pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 2:57pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 2:30pm:

Yes... What did all the Germans think was happening after Kristallnacht? And then all the Jews... What? All went to the beach at the same till the war was done?

Chances are, there might have been the idea among the Germans that the Jews fled for neighbouring countries to avoid the persecutions.

Yes, of course, with no money and no possessions. Jewish property was being confiscated including all personal wealth.

Don't kid yourself. Everybody knew what was happening and were OK with it.

So, all those books and documentaries claiming that nobody unaffiliated with the Nazis knew of the concentration camps and their purpose until after the Soviets liberated them... they were just bullshitting us?

What exactly would you admit to a conquering army if you were asked?

I would not admit anything wrong.

Exactly... You'd deny knowing anything for fear of you and/or your family being shot by an angered conquering soldier... And that happened too.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’
Reply #62 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:25pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:09pm:

Exactly... You'd deny knowing anything for fear of you and/or your family being shot by an angered conquering soldier... And that happened too.

You cannot say what a local knew or did not know about the camps. Only those that knew about what went on in camps were those that knew about what went on in the camps. Simply living within proximity of the camps does not make someone an expert.

You live more than 76 years after the conclusion of the second world war. What you know about the conditions of the camps come from second hand and even third hand sources. You would have to be a survivor, a guard or an administrator of the camps to have any idea what happened. Forensics and investigators after the closure of the camps would have given people some idea what happened at Auschwitz.

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UnSubRocky Gold Member Offline Crocodile Hunter: Origins Posts: 25019 Rockhampton Gender:	Re: Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’ Reply #63 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:26pm rhino wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:09pm: Give that man a cigar. I do not smoke. But I bet you do. And not just cigars.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’
Reply #64 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:27pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:25pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:09pm:

Exactly... You'd deny knowing anything for fear of you and/or your family being shot by an angered conquering soldier... And that happened too.

You cannot say what a local knew or did not know about the camps. Only those that knew about what went on in camps were those that knew about what went on in the camps. Simply living within proximity of the camps does not make someone an expert.

Oh really?

I have known some of them and, believe me, the younger ones knew from childhood.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’
Reply #65 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:57pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:27pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:25pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:09pm:

Exactly... You'd deny knowing anything for fear of you and/or your family being shot by an angered conquering soldier... And that happened too.

You cannot say what a local knew or did not know about the camps. Only those that knew about what went on in camps were those that knew about what went on in the camps. Simply living within proximity of the camps does not make someone an expert.

Oh really?

I have known some of them and, believe me, the younger ones knew from childhood.

Did it ever occur to you that they might have lied for the sake of avoiding the association to the Nazis and their activities? Or are you saying that they partook in the internment of certain groups? In either case, they claimed that they knew and could do nothing about it for fear of being killed themselves.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’
Reply #66 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 4:03pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:57pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:27pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:25pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:09pm:

Exactly... You'd deny knowing anything for fear of you and/or your family being shot by an angered conquering soldier... And that happened too.

You cannot say what a local knew or did not know about the camps. Only those that knew about what went on in camps were those that knew about what went on in the camps. Simply living within proximity of the camps does not make someone an expert.

Oh really?

I have known some of them and, believe me, the younger ones knew from childhood.

Did it ever occur to you that they might have lied for the sake of avoiding the association to the Nazis and their activities? Or are you saying that they partook in the internment of certain groups? In either case, they claimed that they knew and could do nothing about it for fear of being killed themselves.

They knew about it... Civilians mostly didn't get involved except for incidents like the 'Mühlviertel rabbit hunt'.

Boys in Germany and Austria were required to join the Hitler Youth and girls 'The League of German Girls' and they talked about a lot of things, like watching prisoners from camps being marched into fields for slave-work sun-up to sundown ... And many witnessed punishments meted out to those who didn't work hard enough.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’
Reply #67 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 4:55pm

I lived at a student accommodation with a guy who had a grandfather that fought for Germany in WW2. The soldier was a child of 14 years of age. He had to protect a bridge in the later stages of the war. It was either fight or get shot in the streets. There was no choice for him. There were only 3 other child soldiers he guarded the bridge with that year. Two were shot dead before the war ended, with only him and another surviving.

I really doubt that the safety and security of prisoners of war was a consideration for German people in general, when their country was getting bombed into the stone age. The idea was for survival. No one would be obsessed with talking about the location or well-being of their enemy when the idea of having no more than 2 meals a day were at the forefront of any German's thoughts.

The idea that most Germans had a clue about concentration camps, or what was going on inside those camps is just ludicrous. You have no context of what the issue of concern was for Germans during a war. You should not be that naive.

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Setanta

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Re: Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’
Reply #68 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 5:21pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 4:55pm:

I lived at a student accommodation with a guy who had a grandfather that fought for Germany in WW2. The soldier was a child of 14 years of age. He had to protect a bridge in the later stages of the war. It was either fight or get shot in the streets. There was no choice for him. There were only 3 other child soldiers he guarded the bridge with that year. Two were shot dead before the war ended, with only him and another surviving.

I really doubt that the safety and security of prisoners of war was a consideration for German people in general, when their country was getting bombed into the stone age. The idea was for survival. No one would be obsessed with talking about the location or well-being of their enemy when the idea of having no more than 2 meals a day were at the forefront of any German's thoughts.

The idea that most Germans had a clue about concentration camps, or what was going on inside those camps is just ludicrous. You have no context of what the issue of concern was for Germans during a war. You should not be that naive.

I remember watching a doco about the Allies marching Germans through concentration camps after the war. The were saying things like "we thought bad things may have been happening but we did not know, we did not know it was like this(paraphrased by me)"

It seems to me citizens and even soldiers were kept in the dark, leaving them to guess what may have happened behind the gates but confronted with the enormity of the crimes subjected on other humans after the war were beyond their imaginations. There should be info if you google something like - allies show german townsfolk concentration camp

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rhino Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17179 Gender:	Re: Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’ Reply #69 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 5:53pm UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:26pm: rhino wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 3:09pm: Give that man a cigar. I do not smoke. But I bet you do. And not just cigars. No more cigars for you.
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rhino

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Re: Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’
Reply #70 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 5:58pm

Setanta wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 5:21pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 4:55pm:

I lived at a student accommodation with a guy who had a grandfather that fought for Germany in WW2. The soldier was a child of 14 years of age. He had to protect a bridge in the later stages of the war. It was either fight or get shot in the streets. There was no choice for him. There were only 3 other child soldiers he guarded the bridge with that year. Two were shot dead before the war ended, with only him and another surviving.

I really doubt that the safety and security of prisoners of war was a consideration for German people in general, when their country was getting bombed into the stone age. The idea was for survival. No one would be obsessed with talking about the location or well-being of their enemy when the idea of having no more than 2 meals a day were at the forefront of any German's thoughts.

The idea that most Germans had a clue about concentration camps, or what was going on inside those camps is just ludicrous. You have no context of what the issue of concern was for Germans during a war. You should not be that naive.

I remember watching a doco about the Allies marching Germans through concentration camps after the war. The were saying things like "we thought bad things may have been happening but we did not know, we did not know it was like this(paraphrased by me)"

It seems to me citizens and even soldiers were kept in the dark, leaving them to guess what may have happened behind the gates but confronted with the enormity of the crimes subjected on other humans after the war were beyond their imaginations. There should be info if you google something like - allies show german townsfolk concentration camp

I wonder what excuse they used for the smell of burnt humans wafting over their villages.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17983 Gender:	Re: Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’ Reply #71 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 6:25pm rhino wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 5:58pm: I wonder what excuse they used for the smell of burnt humans wafting over their villages. Pork BBq?
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rhino Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17179 Gender:	Re: Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’ Reply #72 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 8:35pm Oh Fritzi, whats that wonderful smell? Is it BBQ nicht already? By the way, what happened to that lovely Jewish family next door, we havent seen them since they went off to that government sponsored holiday camp.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’
Reply #73 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 8:48pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 4:55pm:

The idea that most Germans had a clue about concentration camps, or what was going on inside those camps is just ludicrous. You have no context of what the issue of concern was for Germans during a war. You should not be that naive.

Of course they were fighting for the Fatherland but they also knew what was happening in those camps...

They approved of the internment of Jews, Gypsies, political dissidents, (later) Italian partisans, Russian soldiers and traitors from their communities into camps. They'd been indoctrinated, by the later years of the war, that these untermenschen weakened the Reich.

Particularly the Jews. They were the cause of the loss of WW1 as a fifth column, they controlled the economy to the detriment of the German people. They were the cause of the collapse of the German and European economies during the great depression. They were the instigators and promoters of communism (Karl Marx, Trotsky being Jews). That was part of the fabric of the Third Reich.

Can you do things and have knowledge of other things at the same time? Yes? So could they.

After the war, it became a serious problem to have known about any of it, particularly where the Russians were concerned.

They only discussed it, if at all, when they were with other Germans or Austrians who also had been through it.

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philperth2010

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Re: Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’
Reply #74 - Jul 10^th, 2021 at 10:41pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 8:48pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 4:55pm:

The idea that most Germans had a clue about concentration camps, or what was going on inside those camps is just ludicrous. You have no context of what the issue of concern was for Germans during a war. You should not be that naive.

Of course they were fighting for the Fatherland but they also knew what was happening in those camps...

They approved of the internment of Jews, Gypsies, political dissidents, (later) Italian partisans, Russian soldiers and traitors from their communities into camps. They'd been indoctrinated, by the later years of the war, that these untermenschen weakened the Reich.

Particularly the Jews. They were the cause of the loss of WW1 as a fifth column, they controlled the economy to the detriment of the German people. They were the cause of the collapse of the German and European economies during the great depression. They were the instigators and promoters of communism (Karl Marx, Trotsky being Jews). That was part of the fabric of the Third Reich.

Can you do things and have knowledge of other things at the same time? Yes? So could they.

After the war, it became a serious problem to have known about any of it, particularly where the Russians were concerned.

They only discussed it, if at all, when they were with other Germans or Austrians who also had been through it.

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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