Australian Politics Forum - Statue to be removed

NorthOfNorth

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #150 - Jul 13^th, 2021 at 5:37pm

lee wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 5:33pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 5:30pm:

As I'm not a southern American, not a Virginian, not American, how the people of Charlottesville vote one way or another doesn't affect me any more than if another statue of Lenin was taken down from a city in the former USSR.

And yet you argue so passionately.

BTW - 5 members of Council - so 5 people voted. Just to answer your previous question. Wink

Argue passionately? Maybe... I'm practising. Aren't we all?

OK, then maybe the people of Charlottesville can argue the process by which the number of councillors are determined.

But, at least, should we not honour the wishes of the subject of honour?

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Statue to be removed Reply #151 - Jul 13^th, 2021 at 5:40pm .
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Belgarion

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #152 - Jul 13^th, 2021 at 6:26pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 4:51pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 4:45pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 3:55pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 3:53pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 12:09pm:

]
How many in Charlottesville voted against the removal of the statue?

Were the people given a vote?

I'm asking you.

Not how this works. You prove to me that there was a popular vote and that the majority voted to remove this statue. I'm sure you must have sources to back this up?

Exactly how it works...

You suggested it was an 'unrepresentative but noisy minority' who carried the day.

How do you know that?

Oh dear...more obfuscation, showed up by the above posts. You should give up on this, it is embarrassing for you.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #153 - Jul 13^th, 2021 at 6:37pm

Belgarion wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 6:26pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 4:51pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 4:45pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 3:55pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 3:53pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 12:09pm:

]
How many in Charlottesville voted against the removal of the statue?

Were the people given a vote?

I'm asking you.

Not how this works. You prove to me that there was a popular vote and that the majority voted to remove this statue. I'm sure you must have sources to back this up?

Exactly how it works...

You suggested it was an 'unrepresentative but noisy minority' who carried the day.

How do you know that?

Oh dear...more obfuscation, showed up by the above posts. You should give up on this, it is embarrassing for you.

Ahh... You're back... I knew you would be.

It's true what 'they' say that teenagers and geriatrics have at least some things in common: they bleat like goats and pout like kids.

Don't worry about the Robert E Lee statue, it won't upgrade status in your future care home.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #154 - Jul 13^th, 2021 at 7:17pm

lee wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 5:33pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 5:30pm:

As I'm not a southern American, not a Virginian, not American, how the people of Charlottesville vote one way or another doesn't affect me any more than if another statue of Lenin was taken down from a city in the former USSR.

And yet you argue so passionately.

BTW - 5 members of Council - so 5 people voted. Just to answer your previous question. Wink

How many of those five do you expect to survive the Civil War?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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lee

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #155 - Jul 13^th, 2021 at 7:22pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 5:37pm:

But, at least, should we not honour the wishes of the subject of honour?

You mean this? -

“As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated,” Lee wrote of an 1866 proposal, “my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; [and] of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour.”

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate-monuments

The statue, built 50 years after the ACW, is not the "present" he was talking about. Wink

BTW - did the people who are represented by the other two statues say the same?

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Dnarever

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #156 - Jul 13^th, 2021 at 7:42pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 11:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 9:05pm:

You all seem to be assuming this is some ancient monument. It isn't. It is less than 100 years old. "They were erected in the 1920s when Jim Crow laws were eroding the rights of Black citizens." They were erected to further oppress black people. Remember, the Confederacy lost the Civil War. They lost it fair and square. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

What has erecting a statue to a Civil War general got to do with 'Jim Crow laws'?

How exactly does a statue go about oppressing people?

https://monumentaustralia.org.au/content/directory/full/Captain_James_Cook_Statu...

So it would be ok to put a statue of Hitler next to it ?

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Dnarever

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #157 - Jul 13^th, 2021 at 7:45pm

lee wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 5:25pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 5:23pm:

Then the people of Charlottesville can vote in, at the next council elections, those candidates who pledge to revoke the orders of the former administration.

But that is not what you have been arguing. Wink

BTW - The Council has 5 members. So 5 people voted to remove the statues. Wink

Would they be the same representatives of likely the 5 council members that originally commissioned the statue ?

They giveth and they taketh away ? Good decision.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17917 Gender:	Re: Statue to be removed Reply #158 - Jul 13^th, 2021 at 8:03pm Dnarever wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 7:45pm: Would they be the same representatives of likely the 5 council members that originally commissioned the statue ? Hardly petal. They were done in 1920. So as voting age was 21 that would make them 122 currently at the least.
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Dnarever

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #159 - Jul 13^th, 2021 at 8:09pm

lee wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 8:03pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 7:45pm:

Would they be the same representatives of likely the 5 council members that originally commissioned the statue ?

Hardly petal. They were done in 1920. So as voting age was 21 that would make them 122 currently at the least. Wink

representatives of - meaning the current batch of 5 councillors ? Saying it was likely erected the same way - no community vote ?

Anyway it is going to a museum where it belongs an ugly part of history.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17917 Gender:	Re: Statue to be removed Reply #160 - Jul 13^th, 2021 at 8:22pm Dnarever wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 8:09pm: Saying it was likely erected the same way - no community vote ? Ah likely is it. No stump speeches to the masses? back in those days they may have been shot or lynched. Actually it was a private commission built on then privately owned land. It was later donated to the city.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #161 - Jul 13^th, 2021 at 8:27pm

Dnarever wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 7:42pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 11:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 9:05pm:

You all seem to be assuming this is some ancient monument. It isn't. It is less than 100 years old. "They were erected in the 1920s when Jim Crow laws were eroding the rights of Black citizens." They were erected to further oppress black people. Remember, the Confederacy lost the Civil War. They lost it fair and square. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

What has erecting a statue to a Civil War general got to do with 'Jim Crow laws'?

How exactly does a statue go about oppressing people?

https://monumentaustralia.org.au/content/directory/full/Captain_James_Cook_Statu...

So it would be ok to put a statue of Hitler next to it ?

Absolutely.

The only way to teach history (to Republicans/conservatives) is through statues.

They don't read them socialist books.

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lee

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #162 - Jul 13^th, 2021 at 8:33pm

lee wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 3:15pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 1:10pm:

" ... the sin of being willing to destroy Black people for economic gain."

Where did they write that? At the foot of the statue? Or is it just present justification?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 1:10pm:

As long as the statues "remain standing in our downtown public spaces, they signal that our community tolerated white supremacy and the lost cause these generals fought for."

But the community never got a vote. So how did they know that? On the voices only? The "Loud and Proud'? Roll Eyes

So tell us all about the rest greggy.

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Dnarever

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #163 - Jul 13^th, 2021 at 9:06pm

lee wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 8:33pm:

lee wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 3:15pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 1:10pm:

" ... the sin of being willing to destroy Black people for economic gain."

Where did they write that? At the foot of the statue? Or is it just present justification?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 1:10pm:

As long as the statues "remain standing in our downtown public spaces, they signal that our community tolerated white supremacy and the lost cause these generals fought for."

But the community never got a vote. So how did they know that? On the voices only? The "Loud and Proud'? Roll Eyes

So tell us all about the rest greggy.

Why would anyone care about the statue of a traitor who fought against the USA to defend slavery ?

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17917 Gender:	Re: Statue to be removed Reply #164 - Jul 13^th, 2021 at 9:39pm Dnarever wrote on Jul 13^th, 2021 at 9:06pm: Why would anyone care about the statue of a traitor who fought against the USA to defend slavery ? Poor petal supplying 21st century feelings for 19th century facts.
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