Australian Politics Forum - Statue to be removed

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 106372 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Statue to be removed Reply #30 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 4:06pm Silence Greggy, those poofters want to erase our history too - even our statues of Captain Cook are not safe now.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 139057 Gender:	Re: Statue to be removed Reply #31 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 4:22pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 4:06pm: Silence Greggy, those poofters want to erase our history too - even our statues of Captain Cook are not safe now. Why do you get so turned on by statues, Bobby?
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #32 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 4:24pm

Belgarion wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 3:22pm:

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races —that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

Should a man who said this have a statue erected to his memory? If there are any such, should they be torn down?

Yes, but even Lincoln, Grant and Sherman agreed with Lee.

They may have agreed that slavery was an evil that must be destroyed, but equality was another matter.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #33 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 4:47pm

Belgarion wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 2:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 2:06pm:

Tell us, what story do the statues in this case tell? Is it a story of the glorification of slavery and rebellion? Should that be celebrated or condemned? Roll Eyes

There are war memorials in Germany, in Japan, in Russia. Should these be torn down because the cause for which the people fought was wrong? Roll Eyes

Depends on what the memorials commemorate? Is it the loss of life or the glorification of the regimes? What is lost all too often the message the memorials are sending to latter generations. In the case of Germany and Russia it is the horrific loss of lives that occurred in wartime. Japan? I am unsure. The Yasikuni shrine commemorates the war criminals who created the massacres. In Australia it is the War Memorials in Canberra, Melbourne and all the other cities and towns across the land. What message do they send? Is it the loss of life or the glory of Australia? Such memorials, whether here or overseas were erected within a few years of the cessation of hostilities. These statues in Charlotsville were erected in the 1920s, 60 years after the end of the ACW. They were erected to further oppression of black people. They send the wrong message IMO. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17969 Gender:	Re: Statue to be removed Reply #34 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 5:01pm Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 4:47pm: They were erected to further oppression of black people. Statues, inanimate objects, further oppression?
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Statue to be removed Reply #35 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 5:20pm lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 5:01pm: Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 4:47pm: They were erected to further oppression of black people. Statues, inanimate objects, further oppression? Do you think symbols mean nothing?
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17969 Gender:	Re: Statue to be removed Reply #36 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 5:28pm NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 5:20pm: Do you think symbols mean nothing? No. But I don't believe they mean anything more. So statues erected to Southern Civil War luminaries are just that. Nothing to do with oppressing American negro descendants. Statues at the Alamo are not oppressing Mexican descendants.
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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20716 Gordon Gender:	Re: Statue to be removed Reply #37 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 5:48pm Replaced with
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #38 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 5:52pm

lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 5:28pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 5:20pm:

Do you think symbols mean nothing?

No. But I don't believe they mean anything more. So statues erected to Southern Civil War luminaries are just that. Nothing to do with oppressing American negro descendants. Statues at the Alamo are not oppressing Mexican descendants.

What does 'luminaries' mean to you?

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17969 Gender:	Re: Statue to be removed Reply #39 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:03pm NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 5:52pm: What does 'luminaries' mean to you? The ordinary dictionary meaning. Luminary - "a person who is famous and important in a particular area of activity: " https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/luminary But perhaps you have a different definition.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #40 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:05pm

lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:03pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 5:52pm:

What does 'luminaries' mean to you?

The ordinary dictionary meaning.

Luminary - "a person who is famous and important in a particular area of activity: "

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/luminary

But perhaps you have a different definition. Wink

I was asking you what you meant... But OK... Should we have statues of Hitler... Or maybe Jeffrey Epstein?

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lee

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #41 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:26pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:05pm:

I was asking you what you meant

To which I responded "the ordinary dictionary meaning". What didn't you understand?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:05pm:

But OK... Should we have statues of Hitler... Or maybe Jeffrey Epstein?

You can have any statue YOU want. Hitler is a luminary but not one widely admired. Jeffrey Epstein? Was he FAMOUS and IMPORTANT? Wink

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Setanta

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #42 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:32pm

Dnarever wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 11:10pm:

These statues will be moved to museums. Sounds like a good idea. Put them where they belong.

There are so many things that could be said to belong in museums that are out in the open, Pyramids, Stonehenge. Why does the past need to be locked away and hidden? Leaving the statue in place with plaques explaining why it's there and the history would be far more beneficial and progressive than tearing them down. Leave the tearing down of the past to people like the Taliban, no need to join the ignoble.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #43 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:36pm

lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:26pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:05pm:

But OK... Should we have statues of Hitler... Or maybe Jeffrey Epstein?

You can have any statue YOU want. Hitler is a luminary but not one widely admired. Jeffrey Epstein? Was he FAMOUS and IMPORTANT? Wink

Ah, see... It's all about who you like, who you'd tolerate and who you'd draw the line at.

Of course, it's a safe to assume the answer to the question: who want's a statue a Jeffry Epstein? Even if he dragged US presidents, UK royalty and tech billionaires under his bus...

So, it begs the question: What is the definition of 'famous and important' such that it wouldn't breach the limits you're prepared to go?

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #44 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:40pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 9:24pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 9:18pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 9:12pm:

Read up on or watch a documentary on the Lee family... They owned slaves alright... But Robert, himself, was an armchair abolitionist... Knew it wasn't right but did not act against it... And he was an owner of a small number of slaves, but considered himself a good and kindly master.

He was the top pick to lead the union army but could not bring himself to take up arms against his fellow Virginians.

His whole backstory is easy to find.

Does this cancel culture that is infecting the US apply to all slave owners or just the white ones?

As I added above, Lee, himself, would not have approved of a statue erected in his honour and would have been first in line to tear it down.

Did you ask him or make up that bullshit?

What about Muhammad he was a white man who owned slaves does he get a free pass from the woke leftist idiots?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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