Australian Politics Forum - Statue to be removed

Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 18594 Gender:	Re: Statue to be removed Reply #45 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:40pm .
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Setanta

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #46 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:41pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 4:22pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 4:06pm:

Silence Greggy,
those poofters want to erase our history too -
even our statues of Captain Cook are not safe now.

Why do you get so turned on by statues, Bobby?

[url]https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/c6c/1a7/350f69ceecb2cb2c4003abe3a3230
d441c-18-naked-trump.rsquare.w700.jpg[/url]

It's you posting your pinup erotica on here... Why is that?

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lee

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #47 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:44pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:36pm:

Ah, see... It's all about who you like, who you'd tolerate and who you'd draw the line at.

I didn't draw any lines. The dictionary meaning is FAMOUS AND IMPORTANT. Hitler maybe. But it is you who wants the statue.

Epstein? As I said is/was he FAMOUS AND IMPORTANT? He seems more famous for the rich and famous he knew. I think any importance he may have had has been incredibly overblown.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:36pm:

So, it begs the question: What is the definition of 'famous and important' such that it wouldn't breach the limits you're prepared to go?

Infamous is not the same as famous. Grin

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #48 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:44pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:40pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 9:24pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 9:18pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 10^th, 2021 at 9:12pm:

Read up on or watch a documentary on the Lee family... They owned slaves alright... But Robert, himself, was an armchair abolitionist... Knew it wasn't right but did not act against it... And he was an owner of a small number of slaves, but considered himself a good and kindly master.

He was the top pick to lead the union army but could not bring himself to take up arms against his fellow Virginians.

His whole backstory is easy to find.

Does this cancel culture that is infecting the US apply to all slave owners or just the white ones?

As I added above, Lee, himself, would not have approved of a statue erected in his honour and would have been first in line to tear it down.

Did you ask him or make up that bullshit?

What about Muhammad he was a white man who owned slaves does he get a free pass from the woke leftist idiots?

Check out what Lee wrote about, or was quoted as saying about, his role in the war and post-war.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #49 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:45pm

lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:44pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:36pm:

Ah, see... It's all about who you like, who you'd tolerate and who you'd draw the line at.

I didn't draw any lines. The dictionary meaning is FAMOUS AND IMPORTANT. Hitler maybe. But it is you who wants the statue.

Epstein? As I said is/was he FAMOUS AND IMPORTANT? He seems more famous for the rich and famous he knew. I think any importance he may have had has been incredibly overblown.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:36pm:

So, it begs the question: What is the definition of 'famous and important' such that it wouldn't breach the limits you're prepared to go?

Infamous is not the same as famous. Grin

Now you're going to need to define famous and important.

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Setanta

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #50 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:46pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:36pm:

lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:26pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:05pm:

But OK... Should we have statues of Hitler... Or maybe Jeffrey Epstein?

You can have any statue YOU want. Hitler is a luminary but not one widely admired. Jeffrey Epstein? Was he FAMOUS and IMPORTANT? Wink

Ah, see... It's all about who you like, who you'd tolerate and who you'd draw the line at.

Of course, it's a safe to assume the answer to the question: who want's a statue a Jeffry Epstein? Even if he dragged US presidents, UK royalty and tech billionaires under his bus...

So, it begs the question: What is the definition of 'famous and important' such that it wouldn't breach the limits you're prepared to go?

Well, if my local council put up a statue of Xi, I would not tear it down, their taste in art sculpture is renowned in it's insanity and none of it has been removed.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #51 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:47pm

Setanta wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:46pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:36pm:

lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:26pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:05pm:

But OK... Should we have statues of Hitler... Or maybe Jeffrey Epstein?

You can have any statue YOU want. Hitler is a luminary but not one widely admired. Jeffrey Epstein? Was he FAMOUS and IMPORTANT? Wink

Ah, see... It's all about who you like, who you'd tolerate and who you'd draw the line at.

Of course, it's a safe to assume the answer to the question: who want's a statue a Jeffry Epstein? Even if he dragged US presidents, UK royalty and tech billionaires under his bus...

So, it begs the question: What is the definition of 'famous and important' such that it wouldn't breach the limits you're prepared to go?

Well, if my local council put up a statue of Xi, I would not tear it down, their taste in art sculpture is renowned in it's insanity and none of it has been removed.

None of it has been removed but you'd tear it down? Then get to it!

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Setanta

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #52 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:48pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:47pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:46pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:36pm:

lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:26pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:05pm:

But OK... Should we have statues of Hitler... Or maybe Jeffrey Epstein?

You can have any statue YOU want. Hitler is a luminary but not one widely admired. Jeffrey Epstein? Was he FAMOUS and IMPORTANT? Wink

Ah, see... It's all about who you like, who you'd tolerate and who you'd draw the line at.

Of course, it's a safe to assume the answer to the question: who want's a statue a Jeffry Epstein? Even if he dragged US presidents, UK royalty and tech billionaires under his bus...

So, it begs the question: What is the definition of 'famous and important' such that it wouldn't breach the limits you're prepared to go?

Well, if my local council put up a statue of Xi, I would not tear it down, their taste in art sculpture is renowned in it's insanity and none of it has been removed.

None of it has been removed but you'd tear it down? Then get to it!

Umm, did you misread? Benefit of the doubt for now.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #53 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:50pm

Setanta wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:48pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:47pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:46pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:36pm:

lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:26pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:05pm:

But OK... Should we have statues of Hitler... Or maybe Jeffrey Epstein?

You can have any statue YOU want. Hitler is a luminary but not one widely admired. Jeffrey Epstein? Was he FAMOUS and IMPORTANT? Wink

Ah, see... It's all about who you like, who you'd tolerate and who you'd draw the line at.

Of course, it's a safe to assume the answer to the question: who want's a statue a Jeffry Epstein? Even if he dragged US presidents, UK royalty and tech billionaires under his bus...

So, it begs the question: What is the definition of 'famous and important' such that it wouldn't breach the limits you're prepared to go?

Well, if my local council put up a statue of Xi, I would not tear it down, their taste in art sculpture is renowned in it's insanity and none of it has been removed.

None of it has been removed but you'd tear it down? Then get to it!

Umm, did you misread? Benefit of the doubt for now.

Why?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #54 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:53pm

Setanta wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:48pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:47pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:46pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:36pm:

lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:26pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:05pm:

But OK... Should we have statues of Hitler... Or maybe Jeffrey Epstein?

You can have any statue YOU want. Hitler is a luminary but not one widely admired. Jeffrey Epstein? Was he FAMOUS and IMPORTANT? Wink

Ah, see... It's all about who you like, who you'd tolerate and who you'd draw the line at.

Of course, it's a safe to assume the answer to the question: who want's a statue a Jeffry Epstein? Even if he dragged US presidents, UK royalty and tech billionaires under his bus...

So, it begs the question: What is the definition of 'famous and important' such that it wouldn't breach the limits you're prepared to go?

Well, if my local council put up a statue of Xi, I would not tear it down, their taste in art sculpture is renowned in it's insanity and none of it has been removed.

None of it has been removed but you'd tear it down? Then get to it!

Umm, did you misread? Benefit of the doubt for now.

To keep it in context, your internal inclination is to tear it down but you wouldn't in actuality... Why (honestly) ?

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40763 Gender:	Re: Statue to be removed Reply #55 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:54pm Gordon wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 5:48pm: Replaced with hahahha
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Setanta

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #56 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:54pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:50pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:48pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:47pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:46pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:36pm:

lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:26pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:05pm:

But OK... Should we have statues of Hitler... Or maybe Jeffrey Epstein?

You can have any statue YOU want. Hitler is a luminary but not one widely admired. Jeffrey Epstein? Was he FAMOUS and IMPORTANT? Wink

Ah, see... It's all about who you like, who you'd tolerate and who you'd draw the line at.

Of course, it's a safe to assume the answer to the question: who want's a statue a Jeffry Epstein? Even if he dragged US presidents, UK royalty and tech billionaires under his bus...

So, it begs the question: What is the definition of 'famous and important' such that it wouldn't breach the limits you're prepared to go?

Well, if my local council put up a statue of Xi, I would not tear it down, their taste in art sculpture is renowned in it's insanity and none of it has been removed.

None of it has been removed but you'd tear it down? Then get to it!

Umm, did you misread? Benefit of the doubt for now.

Why?

Why? Because you misrepresented what I said to the point of being opposite of what I said. Hence I asked if you misread and would give you the benefit of doubt leaning that way.
On the other hand if this "why?" is a persistence in your belief I said that I would tear them down, my post says I would not.

We are at odds in what you think I said and would say that error is on your side.

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Belgarion

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #57 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:55pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 4:47pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 2:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 2:06pm:

Tell us, what story do the statues in this case tell? Is it a story of the glorification of slavery and rebellion? Should that be celebrated or condemned? Roll Eyes

There are war memorials in Germany, in Japan, in Russia. Should these be torn down because the cause for which the people fought was wrong? Roll Eyes

Depends on what the memorials commemorate? Is it the loss of life or the glorification of the regimes? What is lost all too often the message the memorials are sending to latter generations. In the case of Germany and Russia it is the horrific loss of lives that occurred in wartime. Japan? I am unsure. The Yasikuni shrine commemorates the war criminals who created the massacres. In Australia it is the War Memorials in Canberra, Melbourne and all the other cities and towns across the land. What message do they send? Is it the loss of life or the glory of Australia? Such memorials, whether here or overseas were erected within a few years of the cessation of hostilities. These statues in Charlotsville were erected in the 1920s, 60 years after the end of the ACW. They were erected to further oppression of black people. They send the wrong message IMO. Roll Eyes

Then you would certainly have a problem with a statue erected to the man I quoted in post 29 ?

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Belgarion

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #58 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:56pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 4:24pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 3:22pm:

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races —that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

Should a man who said this have a statue erected to his memory? If there are any such, should they be torn down?

Yes, but even Lincoln, Grant and Sherman agreed with Lee.

They may have agreed that slavery was an evil that must be destroyed, but equality was another matter.

Then you would wish statues of this man torn down?

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Setanta

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Re: Statue to be removed
Reply #59 - Jul 11^th, 2021 at 6:57pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2021 at 2:06pm:

Tell us, what story do the statues in this case tell? Is it a story of the glorification of slavery and rebellion? Should that be celebrated or condemned? Roll Eyes

It should be remembered. Just because history is messy and often barbaric in hindsight does not mean we should retire to our "safe place" and hug unicorns.

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