Australian Politics Forum - Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions

Karnal

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Re: Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions
Reply #75 - Aug 6^th, 2021 at 6:48pm

Frank wrote on Aug 6^th, 2021 at 5:46pm:

It would be interesting to see what the permutations are:

1 Against mandatory vaccination but FOR voter ID
2 Against mandatory vaccination and Against voter ID
3 FOR mandatory vaccination and FOR voter ID
4 FOR mandatory vaccination and Against voter ID.

You left out being offended, old boy.

No one has the right to not be offended and Against mandatory vaccination.

Everyone has the right to not be offended and For mandatory vaccination.

No one has the right to Be offended and against mandatory vaccination, etc, etc.

It's a hard one. A question for our time, no?

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Frank

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Re: Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions
Reply #76 - Aug 6^th, 2021 at 6:49pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 6^th, 2021 at 6:34pm:

They're not about YOU, they're a regulated social unit with the aim of treating YOU. Health care is about teamwork.

The same applies to economies. No mainstream political party is adverse to economic stimulus anymore. Even your Dear Leader sent out fake cheques pretending he was the one putting free money in their accounts. In the UK, a Tory government paid people's wages - unimaginable in 2019. The government is BACK.
YOU.

You take it as beyond argument that government knows and knows best. That's where you fall on your face. The rest of your blather is just that - justifying an unproven premise.

Prove/show that governments DO know and know best and then you might have an argument worth listening to. Until then it's just agit prop.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Karnal

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Re: Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions
Reply #77 - Aug 6^th, 2021 at 7:13pm

Frank wrote on Aug 6^th, 2021 at 6:49pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 6^th, 2021 at 6:34pm:

They're not about YOU, they're a regulated social unit with the aim of treating YOU. Health care is about teamwork.

The same applies to economies. No mainstream political party is adverse to economic stimulus anymore. Even your Dear Leader sent out fake cheques pretending he was the one putting free money in their accounts. In the UK, a Tory government paid people's wages - unimaginable in 2019. The government is BACK.
YOU.

You take it as beyond argument that government knows and knows best. That's where you fall on your face. The rest of your blather is just that - justifying an unproven premise.

Prove/show that governments DO know and know best and then you might have an argument worth listening to. Until then it's just agit prop.

Oh, I don't think Mother knows best, dear, far from it. Remember, I'm forbidden from:

- Leaving my LGA
- Visiting anyone
- Going out to eat or drink
- Going outside without a mask
- Going shopping with anyone else
- Buying anything other than groceries

I've never seen a tighter regime in my life, but do you know?

The only way this is going to change is if everybody gets jabbed.

I'm no fan of big government. Our country's a vast improvement on the monopolised, closed shop I grew up in.

More diverse, more interesting, more technologically advanced, better educated, better wages, less violent, more healthy.

Most of this is thanks to liberal market reforms. Financial deregulation, busting up the cartels and ending the White Australia Policy.

But when you're faced with a virus that can kill more Americans in two years than its entire history in war, the only way to work is together, as a team.

WE.

The problem with those reforms is they indirectly shaped a spoilt, self-indulgent bunch of consumers, all focussed on ME.

You?

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« Last Edit: Aug 6^th, 2021 at 7:19pm by Karnal »

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goosecat Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 619	Re: Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions Reply #78 - Aug 14^th, 2021 at 1:16pm Young Liberals oppose mandatory/coerced vaccination. https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/politics/nsw-treasurers-younger-brother...
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tickleandrose

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Re: Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions
Reply #79 - Aug 14^th, 2021 at 2:39pm

Re Goosecat

Its a case of balance. On one hand, we want to have as much individual freedom and choice as we can, but on the other, if vaccine hesitancy is too high, then we will not reach the target needed to have a relative functional society. This COVID 19 virus is here to stay, its mutating, and improving. I suspect, going in to the future, we are going to have annual boosters for different variants just like for the influenzae virus in order to keep the mortality rate low. If we let this virus rip through unvaccinated population, then, our hospital system would crumble, and our society would simply cease to function. This is a senario no government of any side would accept.

There are of course exceptions to everything. For example if someone has allergic reaction to vaccines, or have an underlying medical condition that the vaccine is contraindicated, then, well, there is not much a government can do about that. In this case, it is then upto those individuals to protect themselves.

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goosecat

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Re: Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions
Reply #80 - Aug 14^th, 2021 at 3:52pm

tickleandrose wrote on Aug 14^th, 2021 at 2:39pm:

Re Goosecat

Its a case of balance. On one hand, we want to have as much individual freedom and choice as we can, but on the other, if vaccine hesitancy is too high, then we will not reach the target needed to have a relative functional society. This COVID 19 virus is here to stay, its mutating, and improving. I suspect, going in to the future, we are going to have annual boosters for different variants just like for the influenzae virus in order to keep the mortality rate low. If we let this virus rip through unvaccinated population, then, our hospital system would crumble, and our society would simply cease to function. This is a senario no government of any side would accept.

There are of course exceptions to everything. For example if someone has allergic reaction to vaccines, or have an underlying medical condition that the vaccine is contraindicated, then, well, there is not much a government can do about that. In this case, it is then upto those individuals to protect themselves.

Thanks for a balanced response. As far as your last sentence is concerned; that is what I am doing. There has not been a single mention of. or story regarding people for whom the vaccine is an acknowledged dangerous proposition basically anywhere in medical, media, government forums.. I get that such would go against the grain of enhancing vaccine uptake but for people like me it is important to get it out there and not get completely lost in the maelstrom. In addition there is growing evidence of treatment options other than vaccine that someone like myself would obviously wish to be fully explored rather than dismissed.

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« Last Edit: Aug 14^th, 2021 at 6:28pm by goosecat »

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 47810 Gender:	Re: Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions Reply #81 - Aug 14^th, 2021 at 5:04pm Updated the poll, removed voter id option.
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goosecat

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Re: Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions
Reply #82 - Aug 14^th, 2021 at 6:39pm

Frank wrote on Aug 14^th, 2021 at 5:04pm:

Updated the poll, removed voter id option.

Thanks Frank. I think it's far more interesting to get a gauge on sentiment regarding support of Mandatory/Coerced vaccination versus non-mandatory, untethered to specific ideological parameters like a voter ID etc. Who is pro Mandatory and who is not?

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goosecat Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 619	Re: Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions Reply #83 - Aug 16^th, 2021 at 2:29pm Lord Mayor calls for Vaccine Passport; https://twitter.com/CloverMoore/status/1427112110153080832?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7...
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goosecat

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Re: Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions
Reply #84 - Aug 18^th, 2021 at 10:25am

QANTAS makes vaccination MANDATORY or no job.
https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-update-qantas-to-make-vaccinations...
They do at least touch on the medical exemption issue.
One wonders who will be the first legal test case.

"Qantas has announced it will make coronavirus vaccinations mandatory for staff.
The airline said it will require all employees in the Qantas Group to be vaccinated "as part of the national carrier's commitment to safety".
The Qantas group includes the subsidiaries Jetstar, QantasLink, Sunstate Airlines and Qantas Freight.
Qantas said it is giving frontline staff until November 15 to have the jabs, with other workers given until next March.

Qantas will make it compulsory for all staff to be vaccinated. (Qantas)
"Frontline employees – including cabin crew, pilots and airport workers – will need to be fully vaccinated by 15 November 2021 and the remainder of employees by 31 March 2022," the airline said in a statement.
"There will be exemptions for those who are unable for documented medical reasons to be vaccinated, which is expected to be very rare."
The airline said it consulted with Qantas and Jetstar staff on the issue in a survey.
The announcement comes a fortnight after Qantas announced about 2500 frontline workers will be temporarily stood down amid ongoing COVID-19 outbreaks around the country.
Earlier this month, SPC became the first non-health care company in Australia to make the COVID-19 jabs compulsory for workers and visitors to its sites.
The fruit and vegetable giant said all staff must be fully vaccinated by the end of November to gain entry to any of its company locations.
Last week, the FairWork Ombudsman updated its advice on whether businesses were able to mandate vaccinations among staff.
Australia's workplace watchdog had previously released guidance saying that businesses were "overwhelmingly" unable to require staff to be vaccinated.

However, it now says businesses in key industries such as border control, quarantine, healthcare and aged care organisations are "more likely" to be allowed to mandate jabs for employees."

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« Last Edit: Aug 18^th, 2021 at 10:36am by goosecat »

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 47794 Gender:	Re: Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions Reply #85 - Aug 18^th, 2021 at 10:37am Antivaxx nutters continue to cause flareups of COVID. If the flareups are too bad then hospitals are inundated and other surgery can’t go ahead. Get the jab. We can’t speed on the road, we can’t drive through red lights. A mandatory jab (unless medically contra-indicated) will save lives.
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goosecat

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Re: Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions
Reply #86 - Aug 20^th, 2021 at 1:21pm

Still not sure on all the legalities in Australia.
https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/icl-2021-0010/html
It does seem under current laws, to be the case certain employers will be legally able to mandate you have to inject the chosen substances into your body, as you are told.
It just has a real 1984 feel to it to me.

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John Dillermand

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Re: Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions
Reply #87 - Aug 20^th, 2021 at 1:27pm

goosecat wrote on Aug 20^th, 2021 at 1:21pm:

Still not sure on all the legalities in Australia.
https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/icl-2021-0010/html
It does seem under current laws, to be the case certain employers will be legally able to mandate you have to inject the chosen substances into your body, as you are told.
It just has a real 1984 feel to it to me.

Meh, using an Orwell reference should be a new Godwins law,

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goosecat

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Re: Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions
Reply #88 - Aug 20^th, 2021 at 1:42pm

John Dillermand wrote on Aug 20^th, 2021 at 1:27pm:

goosecat wrote on Aug 20^th, 2021 at 1:21pm:

Still not sure on all the legalities in Australia.
https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/icl-2021-0010/html
It does seem under current laws, to be the case certain employers will be legally able to mandate you have to inject the chosen substances into your body, as you are told.
It just has a real 1984 feel to it to me.

Meh, using an Orwell reference should be a new Godwins law,

Maybe, but the fact such happens is most likely a positive for the human species. That's why it exists through apparently every conversation. If it was a negative for the species, it would evolve out. I'd say it's an inherent protection mechanism.

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Sophia Gold Member Offline Posts: 8615	Re: Mandatory Vaccination And Medical Exemptions Reply #89 - Aug 20^th, 2021 at 2:14pm . . PCR TEST explained . https://vm.tiktok.com/ZSJ78r1a3/ . .
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Poll
Question: Mandatory vaccination and mandatory voter ID?
Against mandatory vaccination FOR mandatory vaccination « Last Modified by: Frank on: Aug 14^th, 2021 at 4:07pm »